Virtual Rose Engine

[Paul Paukstelis]

I spent the weekend adding a new feature to the LatheEngraver software: a virtual Rose Engine.
You create rosettes as SVG files, load them into the plugin, and when you start it up it will rock (haven't written pumping yet) by controlling the rotary and linear axes in a synchronized fashion to follow the rosette.
Once everything is fleshed out this should be able to do nearly everything you can do with a normal RE, but with a limitless supply of rosettes.
Super quick YouTube video:

 

[Jim Grieco]

I spent the weekend adding a new feature to the LatheEngraver software: a virtual Rose Engine.

Paul,

I am not sure I have asked you before, however, how do you think your setup and software (everything it can do) would work on segmented vessels? I do not do anything with solid wood/ logs

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Paul,

I am not sure I have asked you before, however, how do you think your setup and software (everything it can do) would work on segmented vessels? I do not do anything with solid wood/ logs

I don't see why it would end up being any different. Everything is turned first, then embellished. So as long as you can hold the piece in a chuck you should be able to do all the same things.

 

[RichColvin]

Paul,

You should check out Bill Ooms’ website. He developed just such a thing (and much more) 20-30 years ago.

Kind regards,
Rich

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Paul,

You should check out Bill Ooms’ website. He developed just such a thing (and much more) 20-30 years ago.

Kind regards,
Rich

I'm very familiar with Bill's site! I spent a lot of time trying to figure out COrnLathe back when I was trying to determine what software I could use to control the machine I made (ultimately I had to write most of it myself, which is of course what Bill did as well).

I think what is a little different about this and Bill's setup is that with mine you interact with it in real-time, as you would a RE. I think the only option with COrnLathe was to design all the cuts first, write out the gcode, and then run it.

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

I've been working on this quite a bit. It can now do simultaneous rocking and pumping, parametric sine wave rosette creation, elliptical chuck emulation. There are so many things to think about adding....

 

[Mike Selser]

I've been working on this quite a bit. It can now do simultaneous rocking and pumping, parametric sine wave rosette creation, elliptical chuck emulation. There are so many things to think about adding....

If I knew how to use everything I already have I’d be jumping right on this!

 

[John K Jordan]

Seems powerful. What is the finish like off the tool?

Curious what the cost might be for such a system, any associated software, and the time investment needed for proficiency. Maybe everyone knows but me...

JKJ

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Seems powerful. What is the finish like off the tool?

Curious what the cost might be for such a system, any associated software, and the time investment needed for proficiency. Maybe everyone knows but me...

JKJ

I haven't made any cutting frames yet, so currently I am only using a router as a drill frame, so it is fairly limited. I've done some cutting to test combination of pump and rock and I would say it is very acceptable with a 1/4" carbide ballnose endmill.

I sell the LatheEngraver motion system (you can click on the link below to see more; this is a link to photo/video evolution that shows all the other things it can do). Let's just say it is a lot cheaper than a dedicated rose engine.
All the software is free and open-source.
The time investment probably depends a lot on your comfort level with computers and your familiarity with CNC. That being said, the first beta users didn't have any CNC experience and managed just fine.

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Latest update is an implementation for emulation of a geometric chuck. You can put in as many stages as you want, but boy do the results get crazy quick beyond two.

 

[Jon]

Paul -- I'm late adding to this thread, but I just want to say thank you for your presentation / demonstration for the OTI Zoom meeting two weeks ago. What you have accomplished is very nice. The "modularity" that you've added, by using Octoprint plug-ins and templates is a very innovative and interesting approach.

I'm not sure how many of the OTI attendees are going to jump on the bandwagon, but I think you piqued a lot of interest among those of us who grok g-code.

Good luck and I hope you generate a lot of interest at the North Carolina Woodturning Symposium this weekend. It will be fun to hear how many turners actually bring a piece by your Transpiration Turnings booth to get a pewa cut!

Cheers,

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Good luck and I hope you generate a lot of interest at the North Carolina Woodturning Symposium this weekend. It will be fun to hear how many turners actually bring a piece by your Transpiration Turnings booth to get a pewa cut!

I had a lot of help from @Pat Wisniewski and I think he would agree that there was a good amount of interest. There are a couple more LatheEngravers out in the wild now! Unfortunately, no one took me up on the offer for cutting pewa pockets. I'll have to get the word out sooner for the next symposium.

 

[Jon]

That's too bad about nobody taking you up on the "pewa" offer. I thought that was a clever tie-in to get people interested.

I know it's not convenient travel-wise, but the OTI symposium will be concurrent with SWAT again in August next year. Maybe a drive to Waco is in your future?

Cheers,

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

That's too bad about nobody taking you up on the "pewa" offer. I thought that was a clever tie-in to get people interested.

It wasn't very easy to get the word out to the participants. Next symposium I'll work more with the organizers to make that happen.

I know it's not convenient travel-wise, but the OTI symposium will be concurrent with SWAT again in August next year. Maybe a drive to Waco is in your future?

I am going to see what I can do. The end of August is a tough time. I am prepping to get back to teaching and there is always a new crop of graduate students showing up.

 

[Jon Rista]

I am glad someone is working on something like this. There used to be a number of rose engine like tools to do ornamental carving like this on lathes. It seems that over the last 5-8 years, most (all?) of them went off the market. Their creators, I guess, retired or maybe the pandemic lockdowns hurt their businesses too much. Always wanted an ornamental turning/carving tool, and had my eyes on a couple. It was in the last couple of years that I actually wanted to buy one, and all the ones I knew of were no longer available (Except used, but they never seem to go on the market.)

I've been looking for something to turn ornamental designs into box lids, also on platter rims, as well as on the sides of boxes, bowls, etc. Been fiddling with the idea of trying to make my own setup, MDF-powered, but it can actually be quite complicated.

 

[Jon]

Jon -- A lot of those ornamental turning-like attachments faded away because they weren't all that useful, or produced less-than-desirable results.

I've been looking for something to turn ornamental designs into box lids, also on platter rims, as well as on the sides of boxes, bowls, etc. Been fiddling with the idea of trying to make my own setup, MDF-powered, but it can actually be quite complicated.

Probably more than what you're looking for, but one of the stepperized-MDF lathes is listed here in the OT forum... https://www.aawforum.org/community/...e-engine-2-for-sale-2200-or-best-offer.24772/ Not too obvious, but that is a self-contained, touchscreen controller (e.g. no computer used), that does a lot of OT patterns, without being too intimidating.

Meanwhile, Paul's new LatheEngraver is a little more complicated, but also adds some very interesting capabilities that will not be entirely obvious to the OT newcomer. His videos are worth watching to see what the LatheEngraver is capable of.

 

[Kirk Yarina]

I haven't made any cutting frames yet, so currently I am only using a router as a drill frame, so it is fairly limited.

Have you considered replicating the effect of a cutting frame in your software while using ballnose, v, endmill, or self ground bits in the router and duplicating the cutting portion of the spinning path of the cutting frame bit?

I think you have the potential to provide a rosette emulator for existing MDF rose engine owners. Just speculating, but attach a leadscrew nut to the headstock, and mount a stepper on the machine frame with an integral or coupled leadscrew. The stepper mount might need some flex.

I have a couple rotary axis CNC routers, with swings in the 6" range and and X axes from maybe 5" to 24", both have XYZ axes. Since neither has a B axis they'd likely be limited to cylinders. Any chance you would sell an adapted A only version of the software to try out? I can get to the smaller one over the winter. It's not fair to use it otherwise since it's not using your hardware. I don't have space for a LatheEngraver currently, I've already far exceeded the guestroom space that the Mrs lets me use in the winter, but maybe this summer.

 

[Darryl Fective]

If I knew how to use everything I already have I’d be jumping right on this!

Me too.

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Have you considered replicating the effect of a cutting frame in your software while using ballnose, v, endmill, or self ground bits in the router and duplicating the cutting portion of the spinning path of the cutting frame bit?

I have made a router-based universal cutting frame: https://github.com/paukstelis/Router_UCF, so I don't have a need to emulate a cutting frame.

I think you have the potential to provide a rosette emulator for existing MDF rose engine owners. Just speculating, but attach a leadscrew nut to the headstock, and mount a stepper on the machine frame with an integral or coupled leadscrew. The stepper mount might need some flex.

That is an interesting idea. It could probably work, but wouldn't be "easy" to implement. You would need to limit the travel/amplitude of any rosette so it wouldn't exceed the throw of the headstock.

I have a couple rotary axis CNC routers, with swings in the 6" range and and X axes from maybe 5" to 24", both have XYZ axes. Since neither has a B axis they'd likely be limited to cylinders. Any chance you would sell an adapted A only version of the software to try out? I can get to the smaller one over the winter. It's not fair to use it otherwise since it's not using your hardware. I don't have space for a LatheEngraver currently, I've already far exceeded the guestroom space that the Mrs lets me use in the winter, but maybe this summer.

The software is free and open source, so you can do anything you want with it. The Rose Engine plugin now has the ability to output gcode directly (and remap the axes as needed) to run that gcode on other machines. To operate the Rose Engine plugin in real-time does require a few features of the controller, including reporting how much buffer space is left on the board.