Water Based Lacquer

[Dave Fritz]

I'm getting tired of rattle can lacquer I'd like to look into a touch up spray gun and use that to spray with. I'd hope I had better control and a thicker product rather than having to build up so many layers. I've read here that rattle can lacquer is thinned down a lot so it sprays easier.

I'm wondering if anyone has tried a water based lacquer in a spray gun? It seems the smell would be much less not to mention clean up. I see Woodcraft has General on clearance. https://www.woodcraft.com/categorie...shes&featured[]=Clearance&types[]=Water+Based Makes me wonder why they're clearing it out?

 

[George Kuipers]

Tried water based lacquer, but don't like it. Depends too much on temperature and humidity for my taste, and depending on manufacturer dries with a white blush.

 

[Glenn Lefley]

I'm getting tired of rattle can lacquer I'd like to look into a touch up spray gun and use that to spray with. I'd hope I had better control and a thicker product rather than having to build up so many layers. I've read here that rattle can lacquer is thinned down a lot so it sprays easier.

I'm wondering if anyone has tried a water based lacquer in a spray gun? It seems the smell would be much less not to mention clean up. I see Woodcraft has General on clearance. https://www.woodcraft.com/categories/finishing?brand[]=General+Finishes&featured[]=Clearance&types[]=Water+Based Makes me wonder why they're clearing it out?

I’m a painter. Yes the smell is much less but the toxicity is still there and some WB is more toxic. They just have found a way to suspend lacquer in water instead of a solvent like xylene. Also WB lacquer never shows off the chatoyancy or figure in wood as good as solvent base products do. It sort of plasticized the product. Now target products are not too bad, but you will notice a difference Also you are so right on cans. All solvent in can and hardly any lacquer.

 

[Glenn Lefley]

I'm getting tired of rattle can lacquer I'd like to look into a touch up spray gun and use that to spray with. I'd hope I had better control and a thicker product rather than having to build up so many layers. I've read here that rattle can lacquer is thinned down a lot so it sprays easier.

I'm wondering if anyone has tried a water based lacquer in a spray gun? It seems the smell would be much less not to mention clean up. I see Woodcraft has General on clearance. https://www.woodcraft.com/categories/finishing?brand[]=General+Finishes&featured[]=Clearance&types[]=Water+Based Makes me wonder why they're clearing it out?

They could be clearing it out as it does amber with age.

 

[Roger Wiegand]

So this product is not nitrocellulose, but it looks and acts a lot like a NC lacquer. It seems tougher and less prone to chipping. Layers burn into each other like NC lacquer so you don't get a witness line if you sand through a coat. The whole line of Target WB finishes has transformed my attitude towards water-based finishes. They seem nothing like the consumer-oriented products. When you call them with a question you usually talk to the owner, great customer support.

https://www.targetcoatings.com/product/emtech-em6000-wb-production-lacquer/

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

I think the term should be "water borne" not based.

 

[Roger Wiegand]

I think the term should be "water borne" not based.

Probably, but it's a distinction that seems to have long since been abandoned by both manufacturers and users. I guess the distinction is that "water borne" finishes are not redissolved by water after they dry while "water-based" will. So by that logic I guess we should be calling oil paints (or any other polymerizing finish) that don't re-dissolve in paint thinner "solvent borne"?

I should have stuck with the WB abbreviation to keep everyone happy (or unhappy)

 

[Glenn Lefley]

Probably, but it's a distinction that seems to have long since been abandoned by both manufacturers and users. I guess the distinction is that "water borne" finishes are not redissolved by water after they dry while "water-based" will. So by that logic I guess we should be calling oil paints (or any other polymerizing finish) that don't re-dissolve in paint thinner "solvent borne"?

I should have stuck with the WB abbreviation to keep everyone happy (or unhappy)

So true. Can’t make everyone happy. WB it is. And the next person is now going to ask what does WB mean! But I’m still going to tell them water base because for me to atomize it right through a sprayer I can thin it with water up to 5 percent.

 

[Glenn Lefley]

So this product is not nitrocellulose, but it looks and acts a lot like a NC lacquer. It seems tougher and less prone to chipping. Layers burn into each other like NC lacquer so you don't get a witness line if you sand through a coat. The whole line of Target WB finishes has transformed my attitude towards water-based finishes. They seem nothing like the consumer-oriented products. When you call them with a question you usually talk to the owner, great customer support.

https://www.targetcoatings.com/product/emtech-em6000-wb-production-lacquer/

I’m not sure if theWB burns into each consecutive coat like nitro cellulose does. But they do cross link somehow. I don’t know the chemistry behind that one. But it certainly does not give the same look as old lacquer (with the solvent ) does, where each layer melts into the last and even melts any lacquer dust left behind into the finish. If you sand the WB lacquer and don’t get rid of all dust it will leave bumps in the next layer. So I don’t know how it cross links as well as the old stuff.

 

[Dave Fritz]

So this product is not nitrocellulose, but it looks and acts a lot like a NC lacquer. It seems tougher and less prone to chipping. Layers burn into each other like NC lacquer so you don't get a witness line if you sand through a coat. The whole line of Target WB finishes has transformed my attitude towards water-based finishes. They seem nothing like the consumer-oriented products. When you call them with a question you usually talk to the owner, great customer support.

https://www.targetcoatings.com/product/emtech-em6000-wb-production-lacquer/

Please excuse my naivety but are they stable when cured or will be be subject to water stains etc. easier? Thank you for all the comments.

 

[Doug Freeman]

I use Target products and have sprayed quite a bit of the EM6000 production lacquer. It does in fact burn in, so no witness lines when sanding. It will dissolve sanding dust but not as aggressively as solvent lacquer.

While a respirator should be worn when spraying wb, it is much safer due to no flammability, unlike solvent lacquer which is highly volatile. I routinely spray it during cold weather with my shop closed up. Cant do that with solvent finishes.

It is different to spray vs solvent lacquer. It is slower to flow out. When sprayed the surface will look like an orange peel, and will be a bit cloudy. Within 20 minutes it will flow out. It is more difficult to use for shading due to the optical differences while spraying. NC is much better in this regard. Spraying wb finishes in low humidity and hi temps can be a challenge. A retarder is required so they flow properly.

None of the wb finishes create chatoyance. Using shellac as an undercoat can provide some but still not as good as solvent finishes IMO.

The wb finishes are very stable when cured. The Target Coatings website has technical/test data available. I think most if not all of their finishes meet KCMA standards with proper application.

As to “plasticize”, all resin type finishes can look that way, wb or solvent. Its a function of sheen and film thickness. EM6000 builds faster than nc so the # of coats is less for a given finished mil thickness. The best way I have found to reduce this is use a semigloss sheen and minimize film thickness. The sheen is then “rubbed up” to gloss if desired (only the last coat uses flattener). Reducing sheen in negative grain reduces the “ plastic look” significantly. I do think nc looks a bit better buffed out to a hi gloss.

 

[Glenn Lefley]

Please excuse my naivety but are they stable when cured or will be be subject to water stains etc. easier? Thank you for all the comments.

All lacquers will water ring stain. If you want no water staining, I use the following for spraying kitchen cabinets.

conversion varnishes are bomb proof. You can spill anything almost on them. The specs are as follows.

i think sulphuric acid is the only thing that will ruin this finish!

 

[Phil Hine]

I have been having very good success with the Aquacoat clear hi gloss. Seems to polish out very well.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Glenn, what are the PPE and airflow requirements for spraying a solvent base conversion varnish? There are wb “conversion varnishes” that are quite different from solvent.