What’s the next woodturning business or product?

[Aaron Cheateaux]

Purely speculating and brainstorming. Where do the opportunities still sit? Tool manufacturing? Instruction? Turning material?

What would you do if you had time and unlimited start up funds?

My wife says there should be a business or a show, where instead of organizing houses, they do woodshops. It’s a slippery slope to “Hoarders: woodworking edition”.

I would pay someone else to do my job so I had more time to turn wood.

 

[Gabe Latner]

Artisanal toothpicks.

More seriously, I think that the incoming generation(s) of woodturners (especially hobbyists) are more likely to live in small(er) apartments in denser urban settings. That means lathes with tiny footprints, less noise, and ideally some kind of dust/shavings collection system built in.

I have a mini proxxon Db-250 set up in a DIY dust cabinet, and it's OK. But I wish there was something with 4"+ swing, a little more power, some kind of dust enclosure, but light and small enough that it remains portable and storable.

A micro CBN grinding wheel (or other system) would also be great, and a service selling green blanks to urbanites very far from any forests, and without chainsaws or trucks.

 

[Bill Blasic]

How about something like this. I have one that is very similar

 

[Monty Ivy]

At least some of the next generation is going to be looking for CNC style machines that either print or can be programmed to make a "whatever". Hand skills, getting dirty, learning curves, or anything that involves actual work are not going to be priorities. That wood stuff they used in the old days may not be the medium of choice.

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

First choice is selling my work. Probably would take awhile to set up and gain a customer base though. If I had unlimited funds I would probably manufacture American made products for turning or sell turning blanks. I would not get into the computer area, I don't like anything to do with computers or technology as my career. Hand work and highly skilled work is my passion. Large barn work shop out in the country beats anything in my opinion!

 

[Larry Copas]

River stools to go with your river table. Hot, hot product. Patent pending and remember you saw them here first!

 

[Russ Braun]

How about something like this. I have one that is very similar

Lol, too large!!

 

[Russ Braun]

We are passionate about what we do; it is important in our world! We make up .0000001% of the world population; I don’t see a shop creating show making it for long. That being said, I would watch it….for a while! My favorite thing about woodturning is it is the polar opposite of work. If I made a job out of it, I would likely lose my fondness of it quickly!

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

would not get into the computer area, I don't like anything to do with computers or technology.

Hmmmm..... how do you read the forum and post. We have to assume you do it with a computer, huh? Without computers the AAW would not exist in its present form. All of us are depending on computers in ways we could not have imagined in our youth.

At least some of the next generation is going to be looking for CNC style machines that either print or can be programmed to make a "whatever". Hand skills, getting dirty, learning curves, or anything that involves actual work are not going to be priorities. That wood stuff they used in the old days may not be the medium of choice.

I firmly believe the next generation of tools for woodturning will be involved with CNC. Kids in school are learning "coding" in early grades. Doing turnings on CNC is still work involving steep learning curves and math skills, maybe mind work instead of manual work. Get used to it, it's the future.

The sort of lynch mob mentally I was greeted with when I mentioned making oval bowls on my CNC still puzzles me. One very well known turner described it as fear of the unknown.

The AAW seems confused about CNC. Do a search on "CNC" under the many available learning resources on the main AAW site and you likely won't get any hits, yet the journal has published articles on projects done with CNC and never mentions the CNC usage. I know there are CNC users on this forum who don't talk about it probably due to the reaction it brings.

 

[robo hippy]

CNC machines, probably, but that would mean writing programs, I would guess. Laser systems for detail type work, signing, etching, cut outs, and being able to do it on round surfaces, and again, writing programs for it. I can't see I see a lot of future in new products, because most of them have been done, but who knows? If I was younger and wanted another tool to sell, I would build my own lathe. Some thing like the Vicmark 240 with the pivoting headstock, but made in the USA. No one had decided to make my grinder platform yet, and I still get multiple contacts per month asking if I have any left.... Nothing patentable on it.

robo hippy

 

[Odie]

Being a very "old school" kind of turner, I feel all the "new and improved" tools and gadgets have left me in a place that few turners know about, care about, or even want to be. Regardless of this, the time and investment of energy to learn what turners knew 100 years ago, still promotes a great satisfaction within the soul. The quest for perfection in these things is sometimes a great strain on one's faculties, but the rewards are great.....if you can achieve them.....(and very few ever will.)

Those art connoisseurs and collectors at the top of their philosophy know the difference, and "old school" will remain at the pinnacle of the classical arts.

-----odie-----

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

Hmmmm..... how do you read the forum and post. We have to assume you do it with a computer, huh? Without computers the AAW would not exist in its present form. All of us are depending on computers in ways we could not have imagined in our youth.



I firmly believe the next generation of tools for woodturning will be involved with CNC. Kids in school are learning "coding" in early grades. Doing turnings on CNC is still work involving steep learning curves and math skills, maybe mind work instead of manual work. Get used to it, it's the future.

The sort of lynch mob mentally I was greeted with when I mentioned making oval bowls on my CNC still puzzles me. One very well known turner described it as fear of the unknown.

The AAW seems confused about CNC. Do a search on "CNC" under the many available learning resources on the main AAW site and you likely won't get any hits, yet the journal has published articles on projects done with CNC and never mentions the CNC usage. I know there are CNC users on this forum who don't talk about it probably due to the reaction it brings.

I mean computer engineering or a career in computers. I still use them!!! They are still great tools...

 

[Monty Ivy]

Being a very "old school" kind of turner, I feel all the "new and improved" tools have left me in a place that few turners know about, care about, or even want to be. Regardless of this, the time and investment of energy to learn what turners knew 100 years ago, still promotes a great satisfaction within the soul. The quest for perfection in these things is sometimes a great strain on one's faculties, but the rewards are great.....if you can achieve them.....(and very few ever will.)

Those art connoisseurs and collectors at the top of their philosophy know the difference, and "old school" will remain at the pinnacle of the classical arts.

-----odie-----

200% agree with this statement. This is the learning curve, I was referring to in post #4. I have no doubt that a few of the next generations will find their way to this level. As computer generated objects become status quo fewer and fewer will reach it.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

I certainly agree with Odie's comments. There will always be a market for what he does. But who will do it? It'd be a hard way to make a living wage these days.

Where I see the clouds gathering over Odie's head are the materials he uses, exotic woods. Friends in the musical instrument business tell me some exotics are no longer legally available in this country no matter how much they're willing to pay. When passing through Portland I'd stop at Gilmer to check their barrel of reject clarinet bell blanks, those seem to have tripled in price recently.

 

[Odie]

I certainly agree with Odie's comments. There will always be a market for what he does. But who will do it? It'd be a hard way to make a living wage these days.

Where I see the clouds gathering over Odie's head are the materials he uses, exotic woods. Friends in the musical instrument business tell me some exotics are no longer legally available in this country no matter how much they're willing to pay. When passing through Portland I'd stop at Gilmer to check their barrel of reject clarinet bell blanks, those seem to have tripled in price recently.

While we are certainly in agreement about the imported "exotics", and their diminishing availability, Doug......the art of "old school" woodturning is not dependent on them, and we are talking about two entirely different things. This distinction must be considered in context with the total emphasis of what the term "old school" includes. If you look at the overall use of the domestic woods I use, you'll find an abundance of common woods, as well.....all done with the "old school" woodturning techniques I've spoken of......

-----odie-----

 

[R Henrickson]

We are passionate about what we do; it is important in our world! We make up .0000001% of the world population; I don’t see a shop creating show making it for long. That being said, I would watch it….for a while! My favorite thing about woodturning is it is the polar opposite of work. If I made a job out of it, I would likely lose my fondness of it quickly!

I think Youtube has plenty of shop videos, some better than others. A number of turners post videos regularly. How to 'compete' in that marketplace?

I heartily agree with turning for enjoyment. I want to turn what I want when I want, not try to figure out what I might be able to sell. I don't want turning to be a job. If someone is interested in buying what I'm making -- all to the good! I don't do shows although I submit pieces to some exhibitions. I teach at the John Campbell Folk School and elsewhere, and do demos. I do both because I enjoy it. I try choose demo topics to show many of the little explored or now-inactive areas of turning, particularly derived from folk traditions, which offer new possibilities to turners.

Next generation -- my granddaughter (8 yo) always wants to do some turning when she visits. My grandson has no interest.

 

[Karl Best]

CNC machines, probably, but that would mean writing programs, I would guess. Laser systems for detail type work, signing, etching, cut outs, and being able to do it on round surfaces, and again, writing programs for it. I can't see I see a lot of future in new products, because most of them have been done, but who knows?

One of the things that attracted me to turning was the "old school", hands-on nature of the craft. Sure, we have much better tools than a few decades ago, but so far we're not high tech. Writing code to turn a bowl does nothing for me. I've worked in technology most of my career, and it doesn't have much attraction. I'm distressed that my other hobby, bicycling, is getting so technical. Not just e-bikes, but things like electric derailleurs. I used to be able to fix anything on a bike, but not so much any more.

 

[Odie]

Some thing like the Vicmark 240 with the pivoting headstock, but made in the USA.

There is a definite market for it. I know you own one of these VL240 lathes, Robo. This lathe is the only one I know of with the weight to make it stand out among the rest of the pivoting headstock lathes that are beginning to be available to the American market. Weight is such an important thing to precision woodturning....600 lbs, or the more weight, the better! The VL240 is available with a 1 1/4" x 8tpi spindle, but too bad they do not make banjos with 1" post hole and pinch type holding power.

Maybe someday, a major effort to come up with the perfect pivoting headstock lathe will be available for the American market.....but, that hasn't happened yet. My preference would be cast iron, but the Robust Sweet 16 lathe with a rotating headstock would be damn near perfect!

-----odie-----

 

[Mike Novak]

I firmly believe the next generation of tools for woodturning will be involved with CNC. Kids in school are learning "coding" in early grades. Doing turnings on CNC is still work involving steep learning curves and math skills, maybe mind work instead of manual work. Get used to it, it's the future.

The sort of lynch mob mentally I was greeted with when I mentioned making oval bowls on my CNC still puzzles me. One very well known turner described it as fear of the unknown.

I suspect almost all commercial woodworking has already moved to CNC. It’s faster and more precise.

I think the backlash to CNC on this site is just that it’s a completely different creative process. Kind of like going to a Yoga forum to talk about the health benefits of Peloton. Nothing wrong with Peloton or Yoga. Both have great health benefits, but people on the Yoga forum go there to talk about Yoga.

 

[Mike Novak]

What I would buy is a dust collector designed specifically for a lathe. Something quiet enough to leave on all day that moves enough volume to capture all the dust while leaving the chips. Everything on the market today is designed to capture and transport small chips. For that you need high velocity and big motors making lots of noise. I keep thinking about making one, but I’d rather be turning.

 

[Michael Brown]

I think I would enjoy putting on a set of VR HUD and watch the world class bowl and spindle turning masters turn with stereo cameras to really see what they are doing. As much as I like looking at the sawdust on the back of their collars and their elbow.

 

[Aaron Cheateaux]

I think I would enjoy putting on a set of VR HUD and watch the world class bowl and spindle turning masters turn with stereo cameras to really see what they are doing. As much as I like looking at the sawdust on the back of their collars and their elbow.

That’s a great idea. Some kind of Picture in Picture as well.

 

[Michael Brown]

That’s a great idea. Some kind of Picture in Picture as well.

Like augmented reality, a face shield that could superimpose the instructor's lathe view through your visor and see how different tool presentation and posture affect the cut. Since we always wear a face shield, small stereo cameras and a headset wouldn't be that much of a change. Mmmmm and it would be expensive, so there would be turners who get it for no other reason than that. Hahaha.

 

[Mike Drake]

I think I would enjoy putting on a set of VR HUD and watch the world class bowl and spindle turning masters turn with stereo cameras to really see what they are doing. As much as I like looking at the sawdust on the back of their collars and their elbow.

I could see the same thing allowing an overlay on a bowl or spindle blank so you can turn to shape.

 

[Richard Coers]

What I would buy is a dust collector designed specifically for a lathe. Something quiet enough to leave on all day that moves enough volume to capture all the dust while leaving the chips. Everything on the market today is designed to capture and transport small chips. For that you need high velocity and big motors making lots of noise. I keep thinking about making one, but I’d rather be turning.

Why have it on when just making chips? I can turn for a couple of hours and never make dust.

 

[Karl Best]

I could see the same thing allowing an overlay on a bowl or spindle blank so you can turn to shape.

Combine that with some sort of X-ray device that allows you to see the gouge on the inside of the bowl, superimposed on the exterior. Perfect for getting the inside profile just right. (Trent Bosch said that this idea was his inspiration for his video hollowing system; we could do the same for bowls.)

 

[Darryl Fective]

How about a self-driving car with a built-in lathe in the backseat.

 

[Odie]

What I would buy is a dust collector designed specifically for a lathe. Something quiet enough to leave on all day that moves enough volume to capture all the dust while leaving the chips. Everything on the market today is designed to capture and transport small chips. For that you need high velocity and big motors making lots of noise. I keep thinking about making one, but I’d rather be turning.

My thoughts keep returning to this post, and how great it would be to have such a way to remove the dust, but leave the chips. The chips are easy to deal with, but the dust is a health hazard. If all, or a substantial portion of the dust can be removed at the source, that would be a great help. This is why all the breathing apparatus industry exists, and why turners put up with all the gadgetry on their heads while turning. If you can remove the dust floating in the air, the person who invents that will be wealthy. Those hanging units that separate dust in the air are a help, but the volume of dust still floating and being breathed, is not changed very much. Get it captured at the source.....that's the issue.

Don't know.....but, maybe this just isn't possible, technically or financially feasible.......?

-----odie-----

 

[Aaron Cheateaux]

What about an encapsulated work area? Or some kind of hooded work area?

 

[John Walls]

How about a cabinet with a lathe in it? Like a sandblasting cabinet?

 

[John Tisdale]

Thoreau famously said: “We are in great haste to construct a magnetic telegraph from Maine to Texas. But Maine and Texas, it may be, have nothing important to communicate.” While I love Thoreau and hang on his every word, I have to remember he grew up when ideas travelled as fast as a horse and, water-wheels and sails aside, all work was muscle fueled by calories.
Not sure how to worry about CNC or the myriad of gizmos on or soon to be on the market.
The trick is to differentiate yourself with a product you really want to produce which coincides with what buyers really want to buy.

 

[Mike Novak]

Why have it on when just making chips? I can turn for a couple of hours and never make dust.

I can do that for first turning wet wood. Or spindles. Second turn dry bowls makes a dust for me. More than I want to breathe. Am I doing something wrong?

 

[Brian Gustin]

I can do that for first turning wet wood. Or spindles. Second turn dry bowls makes a dust for me. More than I want to breathe. Am I doing something wrong?

I'd tend to think his is a false sense of security - even turning wet wood, there's still dust , except you can't SEE it, and it is what you CANT see that kills you.... I'd suggest to anyone that thinks their turning does not produce any dust, so they don't need a dust mask, respirator, or etc. , to get themselves one of those particulate counters for air quality monitoring... of course it helps to see SOME of that unseen dust if you were to turn in front of south facing window that lets sunshine beams in, and step away to either side (to sharpen or something) and on the way back, you'd notice the man glitter in the air....

 

[Steven Landau]

Like augmented reality, a face shield that could superimpose the instructor's lathe view through your visor and see how different tool presentation and posture affect the cut. Since we always wear a face shield, small stereo cameras and a headset wouldn't be that much of a change. Mmmmm and it would be expensive, so there would be turners who get it for no other reason than that. Hahaha.

How about augmented reality for precision duplicating!!!

 

[robo hippy]

What surprised me a long time ago, was how much dust was in the shavings that are on the floor. No real way to get that out. I prefer to let the wet shavings stay on the floor for a day or three, unless the pile requires too high of a step over so I can get away from the lathe. Sanding, I have that covered with that sanding hood I made. No dust escapes, except what may be on my hands. Another video of mine.

robo hippy

 

[Marc Banka]

Since none of our methods for clean safe air is perfect, and we all want to keep safe and protect our lungs I feel it’s best to use a dust collector when sanding, run the shop air cleaner, whatever you’ve chosen to do that, and still wear the mask. It’s so easy to wear a half face mask with p100 filters, so for me it’s like seatbelts. If I‘m cutting wood or metal I wear it, am completely uncomfortable without.

 

[hughie]

I would think the development of and refinement of some of the tools we already have, especially in the area of tool steels. Dust collection, a more localised approach to have it operate at the point of generation. The wider use of variable speed without the large VFD etc much like the Nova lathes and some innovative lathe design to reflect current technological advantages. I have often wondered why a simple cam lock system for the tool rest isnt widely available across the major brands, tail stock with longer travel say 75mm or 100mm and perhaps an upgrade to the indexing system to allow for a greater range of indexing with micro adjustment. There is quite a lot of room to improve the current lathe design. OK in small areas, but that sort of thinking would lead to other advances as I suspect makers aren't really applying many resources to R&D.
I say this based around how long it took Tungsten Carbide to make into the wood turning,TC has been widely used in engineering circles back in the 1960's, I made TC tipped scrapers for my Dad at this time, ok primitive by today's standard but nevertheless the cross-over wasn't realised until the 2000's.

 

[robo hippy]

Don't really know much about the history of carbide. I did construction for 30 years. The carbide used on saw blades is far different from the 'micro' or 'nano' grained carbides that are on the turning tools now days. It is much sharper than what was first used on circular saw blades. I had some ancient McNaughton blades retipped with some carbide that was similar to what was used on the circular saw blades. They did not work well. However, the tantung works great.

robo hippy

 

[George Kuipers]

CNC combined with AI I would guess. It certainly would take the fun out of turning.
Materials would be infused with chemicals, splits, cracks and dust eliminated.
Turning as we know it, deemed too dangerous, and not allowed. Lol.

 

[Debra Traverse]

I agree with the value of learning traditional turning methods. As a relatively new turner, I've noticed that, for every "problem" you're having, someone has a "specialty" tool to sell you. And if you believe everything the manufacturers tell you, you'll go broke buying tools you don't really need. Keep to the basics and hone your skills as often as you hone you gouges.