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What's actually important for bowl gouges?

G

Gary Daemyir

Joined
Apr 30, 2025
Messages
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Location
Portland, OR
I'm fairly new to turning and I'm planning to learn to turn bowls. But I need at least one bowl gouge. I've done a lot of online research and it has left me more confused than informed.

I've joined a local club and been to only one shop day so far. I asked a lot of questions and got a whole lot of responses that came down to personal preference.

One mostly consistent recommendation I've received was parabolic flutes are a great place to start. However the same people were recommending D-Way as their favorite brand. And after doing some more research (a lot on this forum) I'm finding that despite the marketing D-way isn't actually parabolic. But the metal and machining are great. And they're fairly local.

So what is more important the flute geometry or the brand reputation and location?

Or am I just overthinking this?

The other thing I'm confused by is size. Everyone recommended starting with a 1/2 inch, but I can't tell if that's for flute measurement or bar diameter. Because while most online sources agree on 1/2 inch, some of them say to measure tool diameter and others flute.
 
Gary-From a guy who overthinks everything, yeah, I think you're overthinking this. For every bowl gouge diameter and grind/flute profile, I'm sure you will find turners who swear it's the best. Ask 10 turners the same question, and you will get 20 different answers. It's a confusing world with so many choices nowadays. I have gouges in most sizes, grinds and configurations from the major makers (D-Way, Thompson, and Carter and Son), and all have their merits for different cuts and applications.

But the 1st bowl gouge I was able to really connect with and gain some confidence using was a 5/8" Crown PM David Ellsworth Signature Gouge with a 55-degree swept-back wing profile. It was/is just easy to use and very versatile for everything from roughing cuts all the way to shear-scraping on that long slightly convex wing. It is parabolic, and is also very easy to get a good grind on using the Ellsworth jig. I took his 3-day class a couple of summers ago and went all the way down the rabbit hole with the gouge, the jig and his book. I like that gouge so much I bought a 2nd one! And I'll probably get a 1/2-inch one at some point.

You might want to watch some of Kent Weakly's videos at turnawoodbowl.com. He has some excellent videos on the different grinds, but also is a huge proponent of that same 55-degree, swept back grind. If I were a rank beginner, I would probably get the 1/2-inch to start. Those long wings on that deep-fluted 5/8" gouge make it all too easy to get too spicy with your cut and grab more wood than you should be, which can lead to a nasty catch! And if you can get a hold of some fresh green wood, you will have a much easier time of things cutting-wise, plus you will get to learn how to deal with it through the drying process until you can finish turn a nice bowl from it.

Whatever you do, get as much hands-on instruction as you can. There is nothing like immediate feedback from a capable mentor and teacher! You can learn and go home to practice more from 1 day of instruction than you can get with months of watching videos. Trust me-I took up this hobby during the pandemic shutdown, and spent months trying to learn the basics from (sometimes questionable) YouTube videos.

Whatever you go with, learn one gouge and learn it well before you start the never-ending tool chase so many of us are on lol! And show/tell us what you get!
 
I wouldn't get too caught up in dimensions. The Uk measures one way and u.s. measures the other.

Some good advice I received from when I started and asked about certain grinds. I was told to start simple and adjust my technique to the tool. That way I don't buy a tool for every specific cut. That comes later when you realize you're just one tool away from greatness......
 
This is actually one of those times where I would say to get an off-brand bowl gouge (Such as Benjamin's Best) which has decent reputation for quality and at least M2 HSS For one thing, you'll be sharpening more often (Desirable actually to get in that habit) , and for another, you've got a cheap(er) bowl gouge that you can regrind to different profiles depending on which seems to suit your fancy - If you find a grind you kinda prefer and get decent with (Each grind has its own pros and cons and even turning styles) then get a top quality gouge such as D-Way , Crown, Sorby, Thompson, Robust and put your learned grind onto it, THEN you can use the old gouge to regrind a different profile (or any experimental profile you want to shoot for) so you aren't wasting expensive steel on regrinding or re-profiling. Flute profiles are a more high end thing to worry about - most V flutes will take most grinds quite well, so I'd shoot for anything BUT a U-flute (Which may tend to be better as a Bottom Feeder profiled, or so many say) and not be too concerned about Parabolic vs V flute (Which I think is a bit overhyped, really, I can tell no real difference in my swept back Ellsworth grinds on either flute shape)

As to sizes - UK / British measure the flute width , while U.S. measures bar diameter, so a 5/8 bowl gouge in USA would be a 1/2 inch bowl gouge in UK - Most amazon listings for Benjamin's Best appear to be for the U.S measurement as I have experienced. High end tool sellers, you can usually email or call and find out from them exactly what measurement they are using (if they don't explicitly state so on the website) so you'll know exactly what you're getting...
 
Thank you so for the input. I really appreciate the reassurance that I wasn't about to make some huge mistake because I was failing to understand everything. Overthinking and trying to figure out the single "right" choice is not a real thing and it's just getting in the way.
 
It's a bowl gouge. Hard to make a huge mistake, so yes you're overthinking.
Lots to be said for buying a cheap one, mostly because it's cheap - but know once you're serious it won't be your Go to tool.
If you buy a good one, you'll enjoy the learning process more. The Ellsworth gouge is an excellent first gouge, unless you only are doing very small (< 5" diameter) bowls. And if you get this gouge, just buy his sharpening jig. the jig works on all gouges but is the easiest to learn how to sharpen his gouge.
(Doug) Thompson Tools has a very clear explanation of the measurement differences for Euro - Amer manufacturers. Whether you buy his tools or not, a good website for info. But you'll never be disappointed if you buy his tools. I highly recommend them. Great tools, made in America, by a friend to the turning community. If you have a question, he answers the phone to help you.
Good Luck in your new art form. It's lots of fun.
 
You can definitely overthink this.

Keep it simple. I find, in a GENERAL sense, two grinds provide most of what I need: 40/40 and Irish. There are nuances to both, such as an Ellseworth grind which is a particular specific kind of Irish. Irish has notably swept back wings, and is very useful for sheer scraping the outside of bowls. Its good for removing material as well, but I find that the 40/40 does a better job at that, inside and outside.

There are various other characteristics...diameter, specifics of the flute, etc. You could get into those later, when you have more experience with these two grinds. I would say, keep it simple to start, and get a 40/40 and Irish/Ellseworth and learn them both. I use both myself, on pretty much every bowl. I just use them for different things. So I don't think that a bowl, is even a "one-tool" kind of project anyway.

In fact, the third tool you'll likely want, is a scraper of some kind to clean up the inside of bowls. The 40/40 alone, can (when used properly) give you very clean cuts, but its not as clean as sheer scraping the outside with an Irish, and cleaning up the inside with a properly burred scraper. I'd say, start with a negative rake scraper (NRS) first, just because they are less aggressive. The lower aggression will allow you more control over the tool. You can always expand your scraper inventory in the future when you have more confidence in how to use them.

So three tools:

A 40/40 grind bowl gouge
An Irish grind bowl gouge
A negative rake scraper, ideally with a swept back left side (to one degree or another.)

Learn all three. Use all three.
 
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@Gary Daemyir
I have various bowl and spindle gouges. Some are different sizes, flute type, and grinds. They ALL work - as long as they are sharp!
I mostly use Thompson tools because I like the steel he uses. But they are expensive, like other good tools.

One reason to start with an inexpensive tool - as you learn to sharpen, and later, as you experiment with different grinds, the tool will become shorter and shorter! It makes some sense to grind away a less expensive gouge when starting out! (Oh, I see that Brian G. mentioned this)

As for learning to sharpen, it's helpful to make this a priority when starting out. The old comment that "if you can't sharpen, you can't turn" is so true. There are alternatives when learning, for example getting someone else to sharpen, but there are a lot of disadvantages to that. The biggest is that when a tool gets dull, you need to sharpen it NOW.

Attending a local club has huge advantages. (One is seeing how many different things work!) Most clubs have a lot of useful resources, including mentorship programs that provide one-on-one help from experienced turners, often in their shops. A mentor will often provide tools and let you experiment with different grinds, flute shapes, and gouge sizes, teach sharpening, and even provide practice wood. And more than one mentor is even better. It's great to get experience and see how others work before rushing to spend a lot of money on tools and equipment.

And one thing I can't stress too much - everyone wants to turn bowls but there are big advantages to learning spindle turning with skew, spindle gouges, etc. It's not always popular, but spindle turning has been proven to teach the fine tool control that will let you turn ANYTHING, including big bowls and platters. (I can provide references.) I've met some great turners who primarily make bowls, platters, hollow forms, and such who would have trouble with a spindle, especially a thin spindle.

JKJ
 
Gary Daemyir said:
got a whole lot of responses that came down to personal preference.
Click to expand...
So many choices and many are correct depending on the techniques you learn.
If you want to do bowls. One way to start is take a class or work with a mentor. The get the tools you were taught to use.

I use 3 tools in my basic bowl classes.
3/8 spindle gouge HSS finger nail grind 30 degree bevel
1 1/4 round nose scraper
1/2 “ bowl gouge (5/8 dia bar) Ellsworth grind

For the bowl gouge like the Jamieson gouge made by Thompson the robust gouge is nice too.
HHS Henrey Taylor is a good gouge too but the price advantage it once had has narrowed.

I would add diamond parting tool to the above and you can turn any outside shape.
 
I understand your confusion. They all look very similar, but are priced very differently. I won't name names, but there's one well known brand's website has same photo for each size and grind they offer. Huh? 😵‍💫

I would suggest making more connections with your local club members. See if they have a mentoring program. Time in an experienced turner's shop not only helps with learing the basics of turning, but seeing their layout and how they set up and use their shops, and getting to try a variety of tools will give you a better sense of how to set up and where to spend your money.

I started with a Sorby 1/2" bowl gouge over 20 years ago. Over the years, I've added a number of other brands like Henry Taylor, Hurricane, Hamlet, etc. I haven't bought or tried any of the premium tier gouges. (but I probably should) I've also bought some low end like Benjamin's Best and Yellowhammer. They work, and if that's all somebody can afford to get started, go for it. When new turners visit my shop, I try to get them all. Even a total beginner can get a sense of it pretty quickly. I'd always recommend a single Sorby 1/2" gouge ($75 at Woodcraft) over a set of 3 Benjamin's Best for the same price.
 
Well, since you are in Portland, there are 3 clubs up there, so start attending meetings, if you can. As for gouges, I have pretty much all D Way and Thompson, both of which are more V shaped flutes, rather than parabolic. They are made from M42 high speed steel and V10 metal, and I can't really tell any difference in edge holding abilities other than they both way outlast standard M2 high speed steel. I did just pick up a couple of parabolic fluted gouges at the recent Oregon Woodturning Symposium, just to see how they work and if there is any real difference. Thus far, they are different to sharpen, but that is pretty much the only real difference I can see.

As for which gouge to use, if you can only afford one gouge, then the swept back grind is probably the most all round tool, or as Trent Bosch said, "Jack of all trades" type of tool. To me, yes, it is jack of all trades, but master of none. I use the 40/40 grind and several different BOB (bottom of bowl) variations.

I have a bunch of videos up on You Tube under my alias, and most of them are about bowl turning.

robo hippy
 
K.I.S.S. Almost any bowl gouge will do an OK job, except a U flute. You will have to learn to sharpen, and during that process you will probably not put a consistent grind on your bowl gouge, at least for a while. That inconsistent sharpening result will be a bigger deal than any adjectives in the seller's listings. (As you learn to sharpen better, your turning results will improve dramatically)

I'm a founding member of the Cheapskate Turning Society, so I always advocate for an inexpensive (like Benjamin's Best) gouge to start with. The mistakes you are sure to make sharpening won't be as painful with a $40 gouge as they would be with a $120 gouge. By the time you need a second gouge, you'll be good at sharpening, the gouge will last a lot longer, and you'll know exactly what your idiosyncrasies and personal preferences are. If you decide to start with a mid-upper grade gouge, I would suggest steering clear of a gouge with somebody's name on it, as those cost extra for the seller to grind it like a famous person would, and that grinding job will last about 12 seconds in your hands.
 
One last thing from me on bowl gouges. For my 1st few small bowls, my 3/8" Woodcraft gouge was my nemesis. I was afraid of it and the occasional nasty catches I got because I had never been taught to ride the bevel properly, as I got started in the isolation/no classes of the pandemic. (Plus, I was doing Zoom sessions daily on the hybrid schedule, and I wasn't going to do the online demos on top of it at that time). I learned at first by trial and error, and then with some patient hands-on instruction, that a bevel-supported cut is everything. If you can learn that one thing and practice it consistently, you can get good smooth cuts with most any gouge. (Edit to add: Learning to do a proper horizontal entry cut before rotating into the cut with bevel support is established is the 1st part of that equation).

I know I recommended the Ellsworth gouge in my previous post, but I agree with others on starting with cheap gouges. Heck, some of my favorite tools are my cheapo Hurricane and other gouges. They work great!
 
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Aaron Harris said:
You might want to watch some of Kent Weakly's videos at turnawoodbowl.com. He has some excellent videos on the different grinds, but also is a huge proponent of that same 55-degree, swept back grind. If I were a rank beginner, I would probably get the 1/2-inch to start. Those long wings on that deep-fluted 5/8" gouge make it all too easy to get too spicy with your cut and grab more wood than you should be, which can lead to a nasty catch! And if you can get a hold of some fresh green wood, you will have a much easier time of things cutting-wise, plus you will get to learn how to deal with it through the drying process until you can finish turn a nice bowl from it.
Click to expand...

I wanted to emphasize www.turnawoodbowl.com. Absolutely the best place to go when starting out.
 
If I could only have three gouges, they would be:
  • 5/8" Ellsworth grind (removing material)
  • 1/2" Ellsworth grind (finishing cuts)
  • 3/8" Spindle gouge (cutting bevel and removing tenon)
Other tools I use regularly:
  • 3/8" Ellsworth grind (finishing cuts and tight spots)
  • 1" negative rake scraper
  • Spear point scraper
  • 3/8" Crown fingernail grind (even though it's only 3/8" it removes material like a boss)
Recently I have settled on Crown gouges. I have a Thompson 1/2" bowl gouge, some Sorby's, and some Hurricanes. The Crowns easily outlast all the others in terms of holding an edge.
 
Kent Reisdorph said:
If I could only have three gouges, they would be:
  • 5/8" Ellsworth grind (removing material)
  • 1/2" Ellsworth grind (finishing cuts)
  • 3/8" Spindle gouge (cutting bevel and removing tenon)
Other tools I use regularly:
  • 3/8" Ellsworth grind (finishing cuts and tight spots)
  • 1" negative rake scraper
  • Spear point scraper
  • 3/8" Crown fingernail grind (even though it's only 3/8" it removes material like a boss)
Recently I have settled on Crown gouges. I have a Thompson 1/2" bowl gouge, some Sorby's, and some Hurricanes. The Crowns easily outlast all the others in terms of holding an edge.
Click to expand...
Those Crown gouges are indeed very good, Kent!
 
I have a couple of U and/or half round fluted tools. While I don't use them for any heavy stock removal, I have ground them to BOB tools, which for me are a very slight sweep back, kind of ) shape, and about a 65 degree bevel. they are only for bottoms of bowls. One was from my original "Artisan" set that I got from Craft Supplies.

As for cheap vs expensive tools, I would opt for the expensive tools, or maybe I should say "best buy" tools. The problem with the cheap tools, they just don't last. If you are on a budget, then yes, opt for what you can use right away, but to me, if you are part of a club, every one has old tools they will give away or sell for cheap, and you get better quality that way....

As for swept back gouges, I haven't used one in years, like at least 10.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
, if you are part of a club, every one has old tools they will give away or sell for cheap
Click to expand...

I keep a box of such old tools to:
- give to students
- grind and experiment with new tool shapes

One caution about old tools. Some old cheaply made tools made from tool steel (not HSS) are only heat treated/hardened for some length at the working end of the tool. If you sharpen and remove metal past this point they will not hold an edge.

You can test the hardness along the shaft with a small file - I use a triangular file. If the corner cuts into the steel, it's not hardened. If the file corner skids on the steel, that portion is hardened. There are also sets of calibrated hardness testing tools available that work like small files. I bought one such set from Amazon.

With non HSS, it is important to not overheat the edge when sharpening. If the edge gets hot enough to turn blue, the hardness there is probably gone. Cooling in water often and grinding gently will work.

JKJ
 
Well, I think what you want to turn will have an effect on tool selection. There is thinking on buying cheap tools to get started on, I admit my first tools were HC and as I got better so did the tools.
 
Way back in the day when we still lived in an apartment a friend gave me a wood lathe. Not being able to use the lathe in our apartment I loaned/gave it to an elderly relative to use in his home shop. Just a spur center, a small faceplate, but no tools.

A few months later he surprised us with a beautiful salad bowl he turned on the lathe. I asked if he had bought some gouges. No, he had ground the tip of a large straight blade screwdriver as his turning tool. He grew up learning to turn in Europe where his family supplemented their income by turning utilitarian wood items. Things were pretty tight post WWII so they had to make do with whatever they could make themselves.
 
Doug Rasmussen said:
A few months later he surprised us with a beautiful salad bowl he turned on the lathe. I asked if he had bought some gouges. No, he had ground the tip of a large straight blade screwdriver as his turning tool. He grew up learning to turn in Europe where his family supplemented their income by turning utilitarian wood items. Things were pretty tight post WWII so they had to make do with whatever they could make themselves.
Click to expand...

I met a guy in Venice who also made his turning tools from screwdrivers. Turned a lot of small things he sold in his little shop. When we started discussing turning (mostly by gestures since we didn't speak the same language), he showed me his lathe - a Dewalt electric drill clamped to the workbench. A nail provided the "tailstock" center. One of the most creative people I've met - made many things from recycled materials - parts from inside old pianos, carved table legs, cardboard egg cartons, the variety was astounding.

Venice_craftsman_IMG_3513.jpg

JKJ
 
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