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Which vacuum generator

Damon McLaughlin

Damon McLaughlin

Joined
Jan 16, 2017
Messages
307
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415
Location
Eastern Washington
For the past year I've been using a Hold Fast V812 vacuum generator, the venturi type that runs off my air compressor. Someone visiting today just had to have it so I sold it to them. I enjoyed using it and had no problems with it. I liked that it ran off my air compressor which is outside my shop, so its quiet when I'm vacuum chucking.

But since I have to replace it and because I could turn larger bowls or platters, is there something else I should consider? Is the Frugal vacuum system really loud? Other? And is the Hold Fast capable of holding a larger piece such as a 20" platter?

Thanks for any insight.
 
The trouble with a Venturi system is that the vacuum will essentially disappear if there is more than a nominal amount of leakage.

Most vacuum pumps, the Frugal system included, are so quiet that they can barely be heard. The main noise comes from air sucking through the bleed valve. Vacuum pumps can provide sufficient holding vacuum even with significant leakage through the wood, across the seal, and at the rotary coupler.
 
Damon, I use the frugal system and the Lord knows I turn a lot of bowls. It is like Bill said very little noise and holds very large bowls & small ones for me all the time. I priced buying a separate vacuum system generator and looked into the Venturi type system. The Frugal system was for me the easiest and the best system. Also when I ordered my Frugal system there was a problem with one of the feet on the generator and when I contacted the owner he shipped me a new one immediately at no cost to me. I have no financial interest at all in the Frugal system. I am just a satisfied customer.
 
Thank you both for your input. I'll take a look at the Frugal system but after having used the Hold Fast for a year without a single issue it might be something I go back to, especially since its only $125 (since I don't need the rod or bearing assembly).
 
Breck Whitworth said:
Damon, I use the frugal system and the Lord knows I turn a lot of bowls. It is like Bill said very little noise and holds very large bowls & small ones for me all the time. I priced buying a separate vacuum system generator and looked into the Venturi type system. The Frugal system was for me the easiest and the best system. Also when I ordered my Frugal system there was a problem with one of the feet on the generator and when I contacted the owner he shipped me a new one immediately at no cost to me. I have no financial interest at all in the Frugal system. I am just a satisfied customer.
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I'm also a happy Frugal system user. Use it a lot...
 
Damon, I use the frugal system and the Lord knows I turn a lot of bowls. It is like Bill said very little noise and holds very large bowls & small ones for me all the time. I priced buying a separate vacuum system generator and looked into the Venturi type system. The Frugal system was for me the easiest and the best system. Also when I ordered my Frugal system there was a problem with one of the feet on the generator and when I contacted the owner he shipped me a new one immediately at no cost to me. I have no financial interest at all in the Frugal system. I am just a satisfied customer.[/QUOTE]
Damon, I have been a happy user of the Frugal system for a long time now. I routinely turn 20+ inch bowls and platters on it an I have never been disappointed on how well it does the job. I don't think that you can find a better system (I looked) and I know that you can't beat the price or customer service.
 
Damon McLaughlin said:
For the past year I've been using a Hold Fast V812 vacuum generator, the venturi type that runs off my air compressor. Someone visiting today just had to have it so I sold it to them. I enjoyed using it and had no problems with it. I liked that it ran off my air compressor which is outside my shop, so its quiet when I'm vacuum chucking.

But since I have to replace it and because I could turn larger bowls or platters, is there something else I should consider? Is the Frugal vacuum system really loud? Other? And is the Hold Fast capable of holding a larger piece such as a 20" platter?

Thanks for any insight.
Click to expand...

IMO any vacuum pump is better than a Venturi system…..even if only for economic reasons. Wouldn’t you rather run a ¼ - ½ hp motor as opposed to a 2 – 7 hp compressor? In a previous woodturning lifetime I would sometimes run my pump for several hours at a time without turning it off.

I would recommend buying just the pump (from Frugal or any other source) and using a homemade or purchased “rotary union” that attaches to the handwheel side of the headstock, which uses the spindle in your headstock (solid on most lathes) as the vacuum tube. This eliminates all the lamp rods & bearings attached to all chucks, i.e. Frugal system and others.
 
I already have a nice assortment of vacuum chucks and because I purchased the vacuum adapter from Robust I don't use the lamp rod that goes through the headstock. The gentleman that bought my old lathe had wanted the vacuum generator, lamp rod and bearing assembly but has since changed his mind so I'll keep what I have. I've never had a problem with it holding anything I put on the lathe thus far. I don't know if the newer models (which is what I have) are any different than the older models.

For what its worth the venturi system has worked great in the past year on bowls and platters up to 18". I have a very quiet compressor that keeps up with it and I have no problem pulling as much as 24 inches, though normally I like to keep it between 18 and 20 because my pieces tend to be on the thin side.

I appreciate all your insight and will keep the Frugal system in mind should my needs ever change.
 
Size of the bowl is not a problem. The larger the surface area you have the more hold you have no matter what system you use. The volume of air it supports is the only real issue. Leakage either through some joint in the system or through the wood itself is the issue. I tried unsuccessfully last night to find the article in American woodturner that discussed this. A small cheap pump and a larger more expensive pump may both pull 28" of mercury but the larger on can do it longer especially if you don't have a.perfect seal.
 
Damon McLaughlin said:
I already have a nice assortment of vacuum chucks and because I purchased the vacuum adapter from Robust I don't use the lamp rod that goes through the headstock. The gentleman that bought my old lathe had wanted the vacuum generator, lamp rod and bearing assembly but has since changed his mind so I'll keep what I have. I've never had a problem with it holding anything I put on the lathe thus far. I don't know if the newer models (which is what I have) are any different than the older models.

For what its worth the venturi system has worked great in the past year on bowls and platters up to 18". I have a very quiet compressor that keeps up with it and I have no problem pulling as much as 24 inches, though normally I like to keep it between 18 and 20 because my pieces tend to be on the thin side.

I appreciate all your insight and will keep the Frugal system in mind should my needs ever change.
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The amount of vacuum that the venturi can pull is actually of only tertiary importance. The diameter of the chuck is more important and the primary concern is how much leakage can be tolerated while still holding sufficient vacuum. A venturi system has very little tolerance for maintaining vacuum with any leaks. A vacuum pump that is rated for approximately 3 to 4 CFM is far more tolerant of air leakage through the wood, around the seal, and through the rotary coupler and still able to maintain sufficient holding vacuum.

If you plan to use the venturi system then don't rely on the vacuum gauge that is located on the HoldFast unless it is within a few inches of the rotary coupler. Otherwise install a separate vacuum gauge close to the rotary coupler. It would also be a good idea to measure how much vacuum is being lost through the rotary coupler.
 
John, perhaps you were looking for one of the articles by John Giem. In the American Woodturner archives, the basic article on vacuum systems is February 2011 (26.1:26+). There are additional articles on more advanced aspects in June 2012 (27.3,26+) and October 2014 (29.5,38+).
 
I read thru 2 of the articles and missed the CFM rating. I will scan those again. Read them thoroughly back when I built my system. My first system used a car compressor.
 
Damon McLaughlin said:
For the past year I've been using a Hold Fast V812 vacuum generator, the venturi type that runs off my air compressor. Someone visiting today just had to have it so I sold it to them. I enjoyed using it and had no problems with it. I liked that it ran off my air compressor which is outside my shop, so its quiet when I'm vacuum chucking.

But since I have to replace it and because I could turn larger bowls or platters, is there something else I should consider? Is the Frugal vacuum system really loud? Other? And is the Hold Fast capable of holding a larger piece such as a 20" platter?

Thanks for any insight.
Click to expand...
Frugal Vacuum System. it works!
 
I thought I would post a follow up. I've used the Hold Fast system for a year and its worked on all of my pieces up to 19". I've been very happy with it. When I sold it to the buyer of my Powermatic lathe I was wondering if there were other option. At the end of the day I decided to order another Hold Fast system because I've just never had a problem with it.

It arrived a few days ago. The one I received had broken gauge so I returned it. And today I ordered a Frugal system from Bob. It wasn't much more and I did think about what a lot of you said regarding cfm. The Hold fast is about 2 cfm where as the Frugal system's pump is rated at 3.7 cfm, almost double. It should be here soon.
 
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Damon, you are just going to have to buy an equipment manufacturing enterprise and a delivery company. It's the only way for you to get good stuff promptly.
 
The frugal vacuum system arrived and was very easy to assemble. I mounted the motor under a shelf I use for my sanders. The gauge and valve was mounted onto a piece of plywood. On the back are two very strong magnets that allow me to place the board on the headstock for easy access. The hose is just long enough that I can still slide the headstock down to the end of the bed. I had a remote controlled outlet laying around so I used that and with velcro I attached the remote control to the board. Easy access to turn it on and off, adjust the valve and see the gauge. The panel unplugs from the motor easily so that it can be stored in a drawer, a cap goes onto the motor side of the quick release to keep dust out of the system.

As far as functionality I haven't had a chance to use it yet so I can't compare it to the Hold Fast I had and liked. Using a test piece of wood both pulled 25 on the gauge and the Hold Fast is considerably quieter (due in most part to a quiet compressor). That said the Frugal system still is not what I would consider noisy. Thank you all for suggesting the Frugal system.

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