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Who is asking from the AAW re sharing on social media?

There was a reply to another thread that said people were uploading pics unconventionally and that was what is causing it. Can't find the thread.
 
Someone is flirting with a very dangerous line. It's one thing to pursue the AAW's primary mission of promoting woodturning, it's quite another to promote individual member's commercial efforts. One is a valid charitable endeavor, the other may look like a commercial venture that can jeopardize the AAW's tax-free charitable status. Consider the difference between using "social" media to advertise symposia with advertising the personal work product of professional turner members over hobbyists. That's the 'slippery sloop" cliche that could generate both internal and external issues that the AAW must avoid.
 
I will chime in here. Since I joined the forum three years ago, there has always been an unwritten "understanding": if you share a photo to the gallery it could potentially be shared by the AAW on social media, and/or via emails to AAW members in the "Forum Highlights" in some emails. The AAW has recently undergone several significant changes, including beginning to overhaul its marketing strategy and use of social media. The objective of one of these changes is an attempt to drive more traffic to the forum and the AAW in general. That said, given this interest in using forum members' Gallery Posts, certain folks in charge thought it best to give forum members the option to "opt out" via selecting Yes or No when posting an image. The question itself (as part of the process of posting an image) was recently added so that admin will have the ability to filter Gallery Posts. This makes it easier for the Marketing Director (whomever that will be) to gather images, rather than 1) assuming it is okay (problematic, like Mark mentioned above), or 2) reaching out directly to each person (especially given many folks' less-than-frequent forum participation).

Keep in mind that each member still maintains copyright on their own posted images, and the AAW will not use these images for direct financial gain. Another thing to keep in mind is that the forum was originally started to support the AAW, as well as to be a productive website to discuss techniques, share photos, and connect in general. It is, and always has been, a mixture of AAW members and non-members alike. If you wish to keep your images private (or at the least restricted to the forum website), the easiest option is to select "No" when posting to the gallery. The AAW will not comb through any other location in the forum to utilize forum members' images.
 
Michael Anderson said:
If you wish to keep your images private (or at the least restricted to the forum website), the easiest option is to select "No" when posting to the gallery.
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I'm not seeing that option when posting to the gallery......where is it?

In my case, I don't care one way or the other if the AAW uses my images......if they do, I'd be happy to have any recognition on the web.....it's all good in my thinking. Keep in mind that I am trying to sell my bowls, so that could be problematic for AAW's non-profit status if they do use them..... ?????

=o=
 
Odie said:
I'm not seeing that option when posting to the gallery......where is it?

In my case, I don't care one way or the other if the AAW uses my images......if they do, I'd be happy to have any recognition on the web.....it's all good in my thinking. Keep in mind that I am trying to sell my bowls, so that could be problematic for AAW's non-profit status if they do use them..... ?????

=o=
Click to expand...

Odie, I don't think it would affect the AAW's status unless they were pointing to your sites for the purpose of boosting your sales, AND they were receiving a commission from the sales.

Our church does all sorts of announcements for many things related to our mission, but not for the purpose of fund-raising (and absolutely nothing political), and we're good.

But I am not a lawyer.

Mark
 
A long time rift is the high end professional turners teaching how to duplicate their techniques during a paid demonstration, and then getting chafed when those people sell work they just paid to learn. How many of those pros post pictures here now? Now the AAW wants to use all the hobbyist's photos for free. Slippery slope I would say.
 
Odie said:
I'm not seeing that option when posting to the gallery......where is it?
Click to expand...
This is what folks are referring to, the question beneath the Description box:

1754710929290.png

That said, I just checked and that option no longer exists. Maybe something is going on that I am unaware of. We'll see...

Richard Coers said:
A long time rift is the high end professional turners teaching how to duplicate their techniques during a paid demonstration, and then getting chafed when those people sell work they just paid to learn. How many of those pros post pictures here now? Now the AAW wants to use all the hobbyist's photos for free. Slippery slope I would say.
Click to expand...
To my knowledge, only a single woodturning design/object has been copyrighted (I could very well be wrong, and tools are a different story), Tobias Kaye's Sounding Bowls. I am very much against plagiarism, and very much for giving due credit, but I also recognize that no one is under legal obligation to do so. This is only one aspect of a very deep rabbit hole. If anyone reading this has not read Jerry Bennett's article "Mine, Mine, Mine!" in American Woodturner (2013, v.28), I encourage you to do so (attached). It is an interesting discussion of intellectual property in the woodturning world and beyond.

If a pro turner doesn't want to participate in the forum because they are worried about someone ripping them off, that's their choice. If that same pro turner doesn't want to be involved with the AAW because an image was shared by the AAW without explicit credit to the pro turner, that is also their choice (albeit unfortunate). Nothing is new though (re. "Now the AAW wants to use all the hobbyist's photos for free").
 

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Richard Coers said:
A long time rift is the high end professional turners teaching how to duplicate their techniques during a paid demonstration, and then getting chafed when those people sell work they just paid to learn. How many of those pros post pictures here now? Now the AAW wants to use all the hobbyist's photos for free. Slippery slope I would say.
Click to expand...

Once you post photos anywhere on the web, those photos are available to anyone anywhere. You can expect that there will be those who have little personal creativity to attempt copying what they see. If you get paid to show others exactly how you do things, you should expect that whatever you're doing that stands out from the rest, will fall into obscurity.

=o=
 
I had a discussion several years ago with former ED Phil McDonald where I brought up the subject of copyright. I emphasized that the AAW needed to move past the Internet’s "wild west" period where copyright laws were routinely ignored. Unwritten "understandings" aren’t acceptable. I have heartburn about the AAW using images posted by forum members who aren’t AAW members, implying that those pieces represent the work of AAW members. My layman’s understanding is that the AAW needs explicit permission stating where and how the images will be used.

(This post has been approved by the forum legal counsel Dewey, Cheatum & Howe.)
 
Having a button to give or withhold permission for other uses of posted photographs is really very civilized-- most sites, including some of the very largest, have provisions buried in their terms of use document that all the users click through without reading that give the site owner blanket permission to do pretty much anything they want with posted photos and other materials. Nothing explicit or specific about it. Going that route would certainly be much easier for the AAW from an administrative point of view.

Granting permission for other uses has nothing to do with being an AAW member or not, and unless the AAW is making money directly from posting work that the maker might sell there's no threat to non-profit status.
 
FWIW, here is what we all (AAW members or not) have agreed to in order to participate in this forum: "You are granting us with a non-exclusive, permanent, irrevocable, unlimited license to use, publish, or re-publish your Content in connection with the Service. You retain copyright over the Content."

Then the question becomes what does "in connection with the Service" mean? I suspect that promoting the forum on other social media is very arguably "in connection"; promoting the AAW or woodturning in general is a little grayer. (have to look further at how "the Service" is defined)
 
Roger Wiegand said:
FWIW, here is what we all (AAW members or not) have agreed to in order to participate in this forum: "You are granting us with a non-exclusive, permanent, irrevocable, unlimited license to use, publish, or re-publish your Content in connection with the Service. You retain copyright over the Content."

Then the question becomes what does "in connection with the Service" mean? I suspect that promoting the forum on other social media is very arguably "in connection"; promoting the AAW or woodturning in general is a little grayer. (have to look further at how "the Service" is defined)
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That is just part of XenForo's (forum software) default terms. "Service" refers to the website itself. See this link for more information: https://xenforo.com/community/help/terms/
 
Roger Wiegand said:
FWIW, here is what we all (AAW members or not) have agreed to in order to participate in this forum: "You are granting us with a non-exclusive, permanent, irrevocable, unlimited license to use, publish, or re-publish your Content in connection with the Service. You retain copyright over the Content."

Then the question becomes what does "in connection with the Service" mean? I suspect that promoting the forum on other social media is very arguably "in connection"; promoting the AAW or woodturning in general is a little grayer. (have to look further at how "the Service" is defined)
Click to expand...

This refers to XenForo's implementation of forum software and is unrelated to the AAW.
 
Michael Anderson said:
That said, I just checked and that option no longer exists. Maybe something is going on that I am unaware of. We'll see...
Click to expand...

It looks like posting to the members gallery doesn't have the option but posting to a personal gallery does. Are postings to the members gallery assumed to have implicit approval? If I'm fine with AAW sharing something do I have to post it in a personal gallery?
 
Rick Moreton said:
It looks like posting to the members gallery doesn't have the option but posting to a personal gallery does. Are postings to the members gallery assumed to have implicit approval? If I'm fine with AAW sharing something do I have to post it in a personal gallery?
Click to expand...

To clarify a common misunderstanding, Member Gallerie and personal Albums are not separate entities. All images posted in the photo gallery are categorized under "Member Galleries". When you choose to go to one of your personal albums or see all of your gallery media, you are actually just applying filters to view a select subset of your images.

If this explanation sounds confusing, then you have come to the right place for answers to all of life's mysteries.
 
Hmm-- So can someone provide a link to the actual AAW terms of service for this forum? I did a fair amount of hunting and apparently found the wrong thing. It would seem strange that the forum software providers would actually ask for more than the site owners.

It's very confusing-- the "Terms and Rules" tab is right next to the "Contact us" button which was clearly written by AAW. The "Terms and Rules" tab certainly is written as if it is coming from the site owners (AAW) not a third party. Similarly the "Privacy Policy" tab on the same line is also explicitly from AAW. There's absolutely nothing about how this is laid out that would suggest that the "Terms and Rules" are those of Xenforo instead of AAW. Finally the "contact us" link on the "terms and rules" page links to AAW, not Xenforo. I don't see how you can assert that these are not AAW's rules.
 
@Roger Wiegand did you click on the link that I posted? It is almost word for word what is listed when you click on “Terms and rules”, the only change being 18 instead of 13. The AAW forum, not the AAW, adopted and minimally modified XenForo’s terms when it switched over to this software from the previous. There is no separate AAW terms of service. Xenforo terms and rules is just a blanket statement that is applicable to most organizations.
 
Michael Anderson said:
@Roger Wiegand did you click on the link that I posted? It is almost word for word what is listed when you click on “Terms and rules”, the only change being 18 instead of 13. The AAW forum, not the AAW, adopted and minimally modified XenForo’s terms when it switched over to this software from the previous. There is no separate AAW terms of service. Xenforo terms and rules is just a blanket statement that is applicable to most organizations.
Click to expand...

However, it is the AAW, not the forum, that wants to use these images for online things such as Woodturning Fundamentals.
 
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