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Wobble issue after changing insert on Supernova2

J

John Strand

Joined
Dec 12, 2023
Messages
10
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Location
Derby, CT
Hi all,

I could use some advice.

I recently bought a Nova Neptune Max, which I'm quite happy about. However, my last lathe was 1"x8TPI, whereas the Neptune is 1-1/4"x8TPI. So, I had to get an ILNS insert for my Supernova2 chuck (chuck purchased last year, insert 2-3 months ago, both from Amazon).

Here is my problem: After installing the insert into the chuck, and attaching to the Neptune, there is a very noticeable wobble. It's easily seen, even without a piece attached. The insert attaches easily to the spindle, seats firmly. I tightened both the set screws (the one securing onto the spindle, and the one securing the insert in the chuck). I've tried multiple sets of jaws.

Is there anything I can do about this, or do I need to replace the insert?

Alternatively, I might decide to just get a new chuck all together. What are your favorites? This Supernova2 was the first "name brand" chuck I splurged on, so I don't know much about which ones are the best values. If it makes a difference, I turn bowls, pretty much exclusively, and mostly large(ish) sizes - 9" to 15".

Thanks everyone.
 
John Strand said:
Actually, the insert is Nova also. Or at least it came in a Nova box.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately that isn't a guarantee with product counterfeiting these days, especially with simple and easily replicated packaging like the Nova inserts. But either way, you got a dud.

I'd first try to return it via Amazon if that window is still open, and failing that reach out to Teknatool and get it replaced under warranty. FWIW, I have that exact same chuck setup and it runs true. Likewise, there are a lot of those chucks and inserts out there running just fine. Especially for a chuck that's run true previously, there's an obvious culprit with the insert.
 
Likely you do have the actual Nova insert. The Wood River insert that was a problem is past history. I looked up the inset on Amazon (only found one that thread) and if you read the 1 star reviews they all complain about run-out and wobble. Your best bet would to be return. You can remove it from the chuck to see if there are any burs not letting it seat right. You could install the inset only on the lathe to see if is the cause for the wobble. Obviously from the Amazon reviews Technatool does make some bad adapters.
 
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I had a Nova insert that did the same thing - pretty sure it was a Nova insert (was quite a few yrs ago). I used it that way for a few yrs, then got another Nova insert, and it was fine, correcting the wobble.

Does it wobble without the set screws tightened? The set screws can induce some wobble.

For larger bowls my favorite chuck is a Oneway Stronghold with their profiled tower jaws, #2 & #3. I also have a set of #5 aluminum profile jaws for bigger bowls and bigger coring.
 
I've had a couple that needed some cleaning up. Might check if your's does.

Check all the threads for any burrs or debris and file if needed.
Check where the insert seats against the chuck for the same.
Also check for any burrs or scratches on the back of the insert where it contacts the flat on the lathe spindle.
Check the lathe spindle for any oddities in threads or seating surfaces, lathe off and turning slowly. Double checking with a dial indicator might be useful.

Be sure the insert is well seated with a wrench. (Edit: Or what I do, my unpatented "wrist flick" method. I have NEVER had a chuck loosen with use.)

If you have another Nova chuck, try swapping the inserts to narrow down if the problem is in the chuck or in the insert.
If you don't have another chuck for the swap test, perhaps someone in has one. I'd bring one over but I think it would be a long drive...

Perhaps mount the insert itself (no chuck) on the lathe spindle threads and look for anything odd.

If no joy, returning the insert for another another would be my next step.
Or call the US Nova distributor in Florida for help. They seem quite responsive.

JKJ
 
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Tom Drees said:
Had the exact thing happen on my new Laguna. Turned out to be the vinyl washer between the machine and insert. Replaced that and all was perfect with a dial indicator
Click to expand...

Yikes! A long time ago using a plastic washer was widely recommended. Some people bought washers, some cut washers from a plastic milk carton. Then some people reporting having problems and quit using them.

I don't know anyone using washers now, just steel against steel. If the point of the washer is to keep the chuck from getting stuck, removing with a wrench always works. (I use the wrenches Teknatool sold that fit all the chuck inserts.)

JKJ
 
When the Nova Chuck and Wood River adaptor problem became well known, Nova stamped their adaptors with the letter L.
It probably only slowed down the copying. Guess it was 8-10 years ago.
IMG_1187.jpg
 
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Got in touch with Teknatool. They asked for photos, which I sent. Then they asked me to measure the chuck with a micrometer. I was like, "I turn wood as a hobby. I don't have professional machine shop measuring tools." Now they want me to send the insert to them. Considering the price of the insert and the cost of shipping, it hardly seems worth it.

So, I think I'm just going to buy a new chuck, without an insert. Now just trying to decide which one. Does anyone know if the Jaws from the Nova are compatible with other brands? I've never compared them.
 
John Strand said:
Got in touch with Teknatool. They asked for photos, which I sent. Then they asked me to measure the chuck with a micrometer. I was like, "I turn wood as a hobby. I don't have professional machine shop measuring tools." Now they want me to send the insert to them. Considering the price of the insert and the cost of shipping, it hardly seems worth it.

So, I think I'm just going to buy a new chuck, without an insert. Now just trying to decide which one. Does anyone know if the Jaws from the Nova are compatible with other brands? I've never compared them.
Click to expand...
I have Nova, Record Power sc4, Rikon r3, Robert Sorby Patriot chucks and the jaws interchange on all of them.
 
John Strand said:
Got in touch with Teknatool. They asked for photos, which I sent. Then they asked me to measure the chuck with a micrometer. I was like, "I turn wood as a hobby. I don't have professional machine shop measuring tools." Now they want me to send the insert to them. Considering the price of the insert and the cost of shipping, it hardly seems worth it.

So, I think I'm just going to buy a new chuck, without an insert. Now just trying to decide which one. Does anyone know if the Jaws from the Nova are compatible with other brands? I've never compared them.
Click to expand...

I just bought two new SN2 Nova chucks and new inserts. These were shipped directly from Nova. I already had a spare older Nova insert.

Put one new insert in one chuck and it ran true within .0005", fine with me for woodturning use.

Put the other new insert in other chuck and had a visible wobble and with the dial indicator showed it to be close to .01" off. Note that the wobble was not just radial run out but even the back side of the chuck, the surface closest to the headstock, had a visible wobble. I could see it and feel it. At certain speeds, of course, there was a significant resonant vibration that shook the PM3520b and the attached lights and dust collector pickup.

I cleaned off some rough spots, checked the threads, cleaned the contact surfaces down in the chuck, and lapped the top and bottom of the insert with 800 grit paper on the surface plate and checked for burrs and scratches. I made sure there was no dirt or debris in the chucks or on the sssinserts and threads. Nothing helped that insert.

I spent an hour testing all combinations of the two chucks and the three inserts and comparing with other chucks from my drawer. (Checking each with the dial indicator.) All combinations of the two chucks and the two "good" inserts ran true within 1/2 of a thousandth of an inch. Both new chucks were unacceptable with the "bad" insert. Bottom line, the ichucks are fine but that one insert is bad, apparently machined incorrectly. I'm going to make careful mearurements using a dial test indicator on my milling machine, then call them with the data and send the bad insert back for a replacement.

If you have another chuck with an insert (or a friend with one) maybe try swapping the inserts and see if the wobble goes away.

PS: I should add that in the two dozen or so Nova chucks I've bought with inserts (G3, SN, SN2, most 1.25x8, some 1" for mini lathe), the insert described above was the only one with a problem.

JKJ
 
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I was starting to get a little wobble. I removed the plastic washer that goes behind the Chuck. Wobble went away. Everything runs true now. Not sure if you use a plastic washer but if you do you might try that.
 
Paul Vechart said:
The Record Power Chuck documentation says switch the position of the 2 and 4 jaws when mounting Nova jaws on a RP chuck.
Click to expand...

I thought this was only for the old Nova Chucks which were Righty-Loosy, Lefty-Tighty?

All the current Nova Chucks tighten in the conventional manner like all other chucks.

Edit: I just remembered, I’ve got a SuperNova 2 Chuck for which I have RP and Charnwood Accessory Jaws and they all fit fine in the right order.

Another Myth is that Accessory Jaw #1 must be fitted to Chuck Jaw #1 etc. I’ve disproved this myself with all my chucks.
 
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John Strand said:
Hi all,

I could use some advice.

Alternatively, I might decide to just get a new chuck all together. What are your favorites? ".

Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...

I'll answer this question. I'm a hobby turner, and I'm not a chuck collector, I don't mind taking a minute to change jaws if needed. Over the years of owning 2 large capacity lathes, I've owned, without any isses, a Vicmarc chuck (VM120). Through various iterations of smaller lathes it has been 3 Oneway Talon chucks, never any issues. So, Oneway and Vicmarc chucks for me. Pretty rare to hear of users having issues with these two brands.
 
Any of the well known names will do the job. For many it’s largely down to budget and the accessory jaws available?
I’ve got three different makes and they all work well enough. My only rule, and it’s a personal one, is to only buy direct threaded chucks.
 
@Bill Alston I do agree on direct thread. All of my Axminster chucks are direct thread. However I have a Hurricane HTC 125 and a Oneway Talon chuck that use the taper insert method. I have found the taper insert is much better than a threaded insert IMO.
 
If you really feel the chuck is flawed contact Telnatool. I bought one chuck where the jaws did not meet perfectly when closed tight without a blank. I contacted them and, after a few back and forth responses with suggestions and questions, they sent me new jaws. However I have found that there are tiny gaps when jaws are close without wood. These are insignificant when the jaws close around a tenon because, I suppose, wood is softer than steel and any slight imperfection will form the tenon to the jaws. It hasn’t created a vibration that I’m aware of. Anyway I believe the jaws are warranties and faulty jaws should be replaced. Since jaws are cut from a single piece of steel a specific set should fit together. I suppose I should keep jaws from the same set together but have not. I still have had no problems with Nova chucks/jaws.
 
Tim Hunter said:
Running within a half-thousandth is outstanding, and plenty good enough for most metal lathes as well. Did you really intend to include all those zeros, or did it reall run with five-thousandths instead (0.005”)?

Tim
Click to expand...

I used my best dial indicator (Starrett) with divisions of .001". The needle deflection while turning by hand was less than one division, no more than a 1/2 division for .0005". This runout seems typical of my chucks based on checking a couple more from the drawers. A friend with technical expertise was there to look over my shoulder and make sure I didn't do anything dumb.

I personally think it is important to carefully feel and deburr the contact surfaces if needed, removing any scratches in the steel, a very light once-around external threads with a file file, wire brushing internal threads, and cleaning all parts of debris before assembly. Be careful since it might be easy to mess up a good insert. Tighten the insert firmly but don't invite the Hulk to bring a cheater bar.

When Chris Ramsey came to our club in Knoxville to turn a cowboy hat he was meticulous about the chuck and lathe spindle. He carefully removed all wood dust from the lathe spindle and chuck contact surfaces before mounting the chuck. I thought that was a little overkill until I thought more about it. Chris even hauled his own lathe to the demo.

I did roughly check the "bad" Nova insert with calipers but when I get time I'll take it to my little machine shop and see if the top and bottom machined surfaces are parallel using my best dial test indicator (Browne&Sharp - the smallest division on it is 0.0005") That will be a start but not the last word since I don't know of a good way to test the precision of the internal and external threads.

BTW, for those not familiar, a dial TEST indicator is different from a DIAL indicator and a good one is far more precise. However the dial test indicator has far less range than a dial indicator since it uses a little lever with limited movement instead of a long shaft on a rack and pinion gear. The tip of the lever usually is a tiny polished ball instead of the wide variety of interchangeaable tips are available for dial indicators.

JKJ
 
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Bill Alston said:
Another Myth is that Accessory Jaw #1 must be fitted to Chuck Jaw #1 etc. I’ve disproved this myself with all my chucks.
Click to expand...

At some point Teknatool changed this recommendation and quit numbering the jaw slides on the end. The slides, of course, have to be inerted in the right order but a mistake there is immediately obvious.

When installing jaws I arrange them on the workbench 1-4 in clockwise order, then install them one at a time, following the recommendations of the manual.
 
William Rogers said:
@Bill Alston I do agree on direct thread. All of my Axminster chucks are direct thread. However I have a Hurricane HTC 125 and a Oneway Talon chuck that use the taper insert method. I have found the taper insert is much better than a threaded insert IMO.
Click to expand...

I’m not familiar with that particular chuck, but the recently released Axminster chucks have a removable back plate and I’d be confident in that running true.
 
John K Jordan said:
I just bought two new SN2 Nova chucks and new inserts. These were shipped directly from Nova. I already had a spare older Nova insert.

Put one new insert in one chuck and it ran true within .0005", fine with me for woodturning use.

Put the other new insert in other chuck and had a visible wobble and with the dial indicator showed it to be close to .01" off. Note that the wobble was not just radial run out but even the back side of the chuck, the surface closest to the headstock, had a visible wobble. I could see it and feel it. At certain speeds, of course, there was a significant resonant vibration that shook the PM3520b and the attached lights and dust collector pickup.

I cleaned off some rough spots, checked the threads, cleaned the contact surfaces down in the chuck, and lapped the top and bottom of the insert with 800 grit paper on the surface plate and checked for burrs and scratches. I made sure there was no dirt or debris in the chucks or on the sssinserts and threads. Nothing helped that insert.

I spent an hour testing all combinations of the two chucks and the three inserts and comparing with other chucks from my drawer. (Checking each with the dial indicator.) All combinations of the two chucks and the two "good" inserts ran true within 1/2 of a thousandth of an inch. Both new chucks were unacceptable with the "bad" insert. Bottom line, the ichucks are fine but that one insert is bad, apparently machined incorrectly. I'm going to make careful mearurements using a dial test indicator on my milling machine, then call them with the data and send the bad insert back for a replacement.

If you have another chuck with an insert (or a friend with one) maybe try swapping the inserts and see if the wobble goes away.

PS: I should add that in the two dozen or so Nova chucks I've bought with inserts (G3, SN, SN2, most 1.25x8, some 1" for mini lathe), the insert described above was the only one with a problem.

JKJ
Click to expand...
John, what surface are you checking the runout on?
 
Paul Vechart said:
John, what surface are you checking the runout on?
Click to expand...
On this one, the "wobble" was so bad and made so much vibration I measured on the chuck body near the front and again near the back

Using either of the two "good" inserts removed the visual wobble and chuck body runout AND stopped the horrible resonant vibration that was obvious at a certain speed. (didn't write down the speed).

Sometimes I clamp a carefully machined steel cylinder in a chuck, and/or a smaller precision steel rod between the jaw slides and measure there. Clamping in the jaws can introduce errors if the diameter is too large due to any imprecision in the jaw construction, best with a cylinder the same diameter as the inside of the jaws when closed, plus the thickness of the saw cut that separates the jaws The small diameter rod eliminates the jaws and has seemed pretty accurate in the past. I didn't have either handy yesterday so I just checked the chuck body. One chuck had 75mm jaws installed, the other, no jaws.

I keep in mind for the above test that small radial variations won't really make much difference when turning wood. But might as well test as precisely as practical.
However, "wobble" would make a difference - that's one way we do off-axis turnings.

Next up is to check the chuck and lathe spindle contact surfaces. A lathe spindle contact surface out of perpendicular with the axis could introduce chuck woble. My first thought is to mount the insert on a 1-2-3 block on the milling machine bed and putting a wide precision-ground parallel block on the top. Mount the dial test indicator on the mill spindle and first verify the mill bed is still straight then check the parallel block on the top contact ring. This should prove (to me) that the two contact surfaces are parallel or not. As mentioned, I'm not sure how to check the threads but I have some easy ideas that might work, given the threads are not tapered.

If I find the energy, I might call a friend for ideas. He did single-point diamond turning on metals in a clean room to make precision optical mirrors for aerospace and other applications. It's hard to believe the surfaces and optical qualities of samples he showed me. He's pretty clever about measuring and testing anything.

JKJ
 
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All of my chucks whether direct thread or insert run no more than .0015. If they were more than that I would return or get rid of. I have not bought any new chucks for a number of years now but I sorta remember when I started turning that Nova in their paper work stated that the chucks were guaranteed to run no more than .006. Having a machinist back round I thought that was a lot and that was when I started measuring runout. Surprisingly about 98% (best guess) of the chucks that I have measured fell within that "good for me" measurement. To the best of my knowledge jaws when manufactured are sliced into 4 pieces that is why the perfect circle of a jaws set has gaps between the jaws. When you see that someone has a problem with a Nova chuck its probably due to the fact that there are probably 4 or 5 times as many Nova chucks out there than anybody else's. As you know woodturning is not a cheap hobby to get started in and a lot of new bees will start with a Nova chuck and having no real knowledge have problems that are not really problems. The biggest problem that Nova had to overcome was the Wood River chuck adapter that was being sold for like 8 bucks compared to the Nova adapter that was back then about $19 (you know they thought wow I can save $10). Nova had to take the heat on that for a good while and it was not their fault. The Nova chuck was the first 4 jaw chuck (as in the way chucks are still made today) for woodturners and the second was the Vicmarc chuck which was a direct copy of the Nova chuck (even turned righty loosey and lefty tighty. And all other brands followed. And as I always say "I have all the major brands of chucks and I do not believe that one brand is better than the others". They all work as they are supposed to.
 
I agree that any major brand of chuck is good quality. I have four different brands and they are all good quality. The only one I had trouble with runout was a record power, I found that the insert supplied with it had a burr on the end and wasn't allowing the insert to bottom on the chuck properly. Once I removed the burr and cleaned the threads it runs true.
 
@Bill Alston OneWay and Hurricane inserts are tapered. You draw them into the chuck with screws. This eliminates any thread tolerances when installed in the chuck.

@Bill Blasic I had one Nova chuck that had 0.005” runout. Technatool told me that was within their allowable tolerance. All my others were 0.002” or less. My Axminster are 0.001” or less. Unbelievable, but the Penn State Barracuda 2 I bought 20+ years ago has almost zero runout.

Image 6-9-25 at 10.18 AM.jpeg
 
Tim Hunter said:
Keep in mind that low body runout doesn't guarantee balance. I doubt many of these chucks are balanced during manufacturing.

Tim
Click to expand...

And keep in mind that any imbalance when the chuck is spinning without wood might not be caused by the chuck. See a little imbalance? Remove the chuck and run the lathe up to speed and see if any vibration remains. The drive belt or other headstock components could be the cause. I've seen this in one of my lathes.

JKJ
 
I have a 12 Rikon lathe that is a backup lathe or for things I don’t want to tie up my main lathe with. I moved the belt one time and had spindle and chuck wobble. After a lot of trial and error it ended up I had made the belt too tight. I loosened the belt a little and it was running smooth again.
 
John K Jordan said:
I've had a couple that needed some cleaning up. Might check if your's does.

Check all the threads for any burrs or debris and file if needed.
Check where the insert seats against the chuck for the same.
Also check for any burrs or scratches on the back of the insert where it contacts the flat on the lathe spindle.
Check the lathe spindle for any oddities in threads or seating surfaces, lathe off and turning slowly. Double checking with a dial indicator might be useful.

Be sure the insert is well seated with a wrench. (Edit: Or what I do, my unpatented "wrist flick" method. I have NEVER had a chuck loosen with use.)

If you have another Nova chuck, try swapping the inserts to narrow down if the problem is in the chuck or in the insert.
If you don't have another chuck for the swap test, perhaps someone in has one. I'd bring one over but I think it would be a long drive...

Perhaps mount the insert itself (no chuck) on the lathe spindle threads and look for anything odd.

If no joy, returning the insert for another another would be my next step.
Or call the US Nova distributor in Florida for help. They seem quite responsive.

JKJ
Click to expand...
Same with me John, I do the wrist flick, get close and flick it. Have never had one come loose, even in reverse of roughing big pieces and shutting off. Stays cinched up always. As to plastic washers, the only real use for them is if some odd ball insert doesn't bottom out on the flange and you use them as a spacer. I would never use one on a chuck that bottoms out on its own. Probably haven't used a plastic washer in at least 12 yrs as if some insert gives me problems I get rid of it. Good to have a few around if you have others come to your shop with who knows what though.
 
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