I went to a great demo by Mark Gardner at the Bay Area Woodturners Association monthly meeting yesterday. He showed one of his textured urn vessels, which had been dyed black using Fiebing's "USMC Black" leather dye. Unfortunately, that brand is illegal here in California, probably because it is alcohol-based and has a high VOC content. Can anyone give me a recommendation for an alternative, alcohol-based leather dye that works well on wood? Powder or liquid, either one is acceptable (we can buy denatured alcohol).
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Wood dye recommendations
- Thread starter David Stranz
- Start date
Try Angelus shoe dye
Thanks. I saw that on Amazon and it can be shipped to California.
Keda Dye is powder. It can be mixed with water or alcohol. Can be found on Amazon or on the Keda dye website. Also is quite inexpensive for the quantity of dye that can be made.
India Ink is another alternate to making wood black. Both Laurent Niclot and Simon Begg used this in classes I took from them.
I agree with Jim. India ink will cover up the wood grain where dye lets the wood be wood. I use India ink frequently as well as dyes.
India ink is water based, so it will raise the grain, I assume. Is the Keda dye water or alcohol soluble?
I've never had India ink raise grain. It dries in literally seconds but fully cures over a day or so. The Keda dye is both alcohol and water soluble as I already stated.
Sorry, missed that on first reading. Thanks for all of the help.
I use Transtint dyes they are alcohol or water soluble. I use them with Acetone and when I can't smell the acetone I know the dye is set. Also Blick Black Cat India Ink is the best India ink to use on wood and I sometimes use an airbrush to put it on.
Dave Landers
Beta Tester
I wipe on India ink (Speedball brand) and it does raise the grain for me - mostly doing hard maple. I simply plan on sanding again after the first application (with the last or next-higher grit) and re-applying. Sometimes I'll wet-sand with my last grit and the ink.
Another vote for India Inc.
I got a bottle of Behlen Solar Lux stain from a friend. It is non-grain raising and I like it quite a bit, better than Fiebing's. I believe it is now marketed by Mohawk
Douglas and Sturgess
Michael, just so you know when I ran my two year test on dye Behlen aniline dyes faded completely away and the Behlan Solar lux fade a little bit. Only the metal acid dyes showed no fading after two years
I have been using W.D. Lockwood dyes for almost 20-years - specifically their Metal Complex Walnut.
Lockwood is only available from Lockwood - their customers are mostly furniture manufacturers
They do sell a sample kit and their technical support guys are the best - it's good to talk to someone who actually knows how to use their product
Lockwood is only available from Lockwood - their customers are mostly furniture manufacturers
They do sell a sample kit and their technical support guys are the best - it's good to talk to someone who actually knows how to use their product
Very timely find on this post. I have a good sized sweet gum floor vase (32" tall) that developed black mold spots in large areas over a good portion of the piece. I didn't catch it early enough in the drying process to try and treat it. Even then it's usually a futal effort. I know some like the look. I don't. Considering torching the outside to a charred black but also dying it black. I've never dyed wood before so will explore some of the ideas here. It doesn't have much inherent grain contrast so not worried about covering up nice grain but want it to still have some resemblance to wood. Would plan on a sealer and then gloss clear finish after dying, or torching. The tone change band near the top is where I had tried a bit of water/bleach to see if it helped subdue the blotches.
Any inputs on dying a large very light toned piece?
Any inputs on dying a large very light toned piece?
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You could dye it black then sand it back when its dry so only the growth rings are dyed. Then dye it again that should make the growth rings a little darker then the rest.
Have you tried the 2-part wood bleach? It will remove some fungal stains.
Never tried any of that. I see lots of options online for stuff called wood bleach that comes in two parts. Any recommendations? I have more pieces of the same tree this same size to turn and suspect it's going to be a theme in the rest of them.
Concern is I clear it up on the surface, maybe, but it's still in the wood. Over time it comes back under the finish?
Concern is I clear it up on the surface, maybe, but it's still in the wood. Over time it comes back under the finish?
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I suspect they are similar. I have some but can't remember the brand. When I saw or process light colored wood like holly or maple in warm weather it sometimes forms a grey or greenish fungal stain. The wood bleach will make the surface white again so it's good for a turned piece.
I've started taking down trees in cold weather. I plan to have a few persimmon taken down this winter - tired of them dropping fruit on the driveway. And I love turning the wood.
JKJ
I’ve had great success with a diy 2 part wood bleach. This video from Mike Piece explains it well. I sand the piece to 1 below final grit. I mix the bleach in a jar, apply it, let it dry, then lightly sand with the final 2 grits. The bleached layer is thin and the black you have would likely be uncovered.
View: https://youtu.be/hQaJ82qGOEM?si=z7KWj5cksoNVm_dK
As for dye, transtint is best especially if you are going to spray a gloss finish. Put it on pretty heavy, let dry, then cover with a light sealer coat and let dry. There’s a good chance the transtint will mix with your finish - mix the transtint into the sealer coat for toning for more color, and mix the transtint into your 1st finish coat if needed. The sealer coat keeps heavier finish coats from lifting and mixing the dye. If transtint is not compatible with your finish, use shellac as the sealer/toner coat.
As for dye, transtint is best especially if you are going to spray a gloss finish. Put it on pretty heavy, let dry, then cover with a light sealer coat and let dry. There’s a good chance the transtint will mix with your finish - mix the transtint into the sealer coat for toning for more color, and mix the transtint into your 1st finish coat if needed. The sealer coat keeps heavier finish coats from lifting and mixing the dye. If transtint is not compatible with your finish, use shellac as the sealer/toner coat.
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Thanks. Ordering a bottle of Transtint shortly. Since I'm trying to hide black blotches I'm just going to go with black. There's really no grain to speak of that I'd want to try and highlight so will see how it goes. I have quite a bit to work through so if it's a fail there's plenty more to work with. My clear finishes are either shellac or, if destined for a gallery I use a sealer, a polyester barrier then automotive clear coat. I don't see this one headed to a gallery at this point but, who knows.
Ordered the black Transtint. Question - I have a large piece to dye. Best to spray on mixed with acetone or alcohol? Maybe mix with my shellac? Want to try for even coverage without brush lines but do intend to go pretty dark with it.
I have had good luck with TransTint products. I have used other products with shellac in them but the shellac has a tendancy to seal the wood surface and prevent an even coverage. It can wind up streaky if used as a wipe-on or potentially as a brush on. I have never sprayed any of them, but if you choose to do so, regardless of the product chosen, I would highly recommend spraying outside and wearing a good quality mask... not just a particulate dust mask, but one that works on vapors.
Strongly agree.
I like the full face 3M industrial 6900 respirators for any kind of spraying, shop, fruit trees, fields, etc. (but not with these particulate filters), protects lungs, eyes, skin:
For spraying I use the 3M Multi Gas/Vapor cartridges, 60926 (which, BTW, also filter particulates):
I've mentioned this before: Years ago I discovered another use for a full-face respirator. While returning on the road below the farm I looked up and saw smoke in the woods - some guy with questionable intelligence at the bottom of the hill went inside his house and took a nap instead of watching over his brush fire - set the woods on fire. I raced up the hill, assessed the situation, called the forestry people, then took the tractor down the hill, knocked a hole in a fence, and started cutting a fire break in the woods. The full face respirator didn't stop all the heavy smoke but sure kept it out of my eyes!! (Before long the forestry service showed up with BIG equipment and a crew and took care of everything - said that guy down the hill would have a big fine for not watching the fire, for failure to get a burn permit, plus a big bill for the equipment and team! Maybe he learned something that day.
JKJ
I have never had brush marks using TransTint but what you will find is overlapping of color (darker/lighter areas). I've also to the best of my knowledge never used TransTint with an airbrush but I have no doubts that it would work (will try that soon). Depending on how much that piece sucks in using black should be pretty easy. When I do say a 5" high X 3 1/2" wide piece (if I don't start from the inside to get dramatic color changes on the outside) I pour in about an ounce or so of Acetone and add 2 or 3 drops of TransTint a little goes a long way. I usually use cheap artists brushes to paint it on.
One thing that I most always do is bleach the piece before dyeing. I make my own with a formula given to me by Chris Ramsey. I'll try to hunt it down and with his permission I'll post it.
One thing that I most always do is bleach the piece before dyeing. I make my own with a formula given to me by Chris Ramsey. I'll try to hunt it down and with his permission I'll post it.
Thanks. Good point on the shellac sealing the wood after the first spray which likely would impact further applications. I spray some really noxious finishing products so have my positive air flow spray booth and 3M vapor mask equipment handy. I have India ink I use to color and reconstitute my black timbermate. It dries more grey than black without it. I assume the Transtint is similar, a few drops goes a long way. Bill, I've watched a few of the "make your own" wood bleach videos and the formulas all seem to be about the same but if you find yours pls send it. Might be an easier or better mix. Thx.
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IIRC, Ramsey uses the about the same as most I've read about, sodium hydroxide plus hydrogen peroxide.
Most mix up a bit, not much more than will be used since it degrades quickly.
I've read that some apply one first (the sodium hydroxide?), let sit for a bit, then apply the other.
But I don't have his recipe or procedure - I'd like to see it too.
JKJ
Most mix up a bit, not much more than will be used since it degrades quickly.
I've read that some apply one first (the sodium hydroxide?), let sit for a bit, then apply the other.
But I don't have his recipe or procedure - I'd like to see it too.
JKJ