Are there "common" levels of wood turner vocabulary knowledge, concept understanding, and skill, besides "novice/beginner?" Intermediate? Advanced/master? And are there descriptions to determine a turner's level?
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Wood Turner Skill Levels
- Thread starter Don Stephan
- Start date
I spent 20 minutes writing a long and detailed response with lots of examples then realized it really boiled down to "I don't think so."
It's not worth worrying about. Do what you do and try to improve every time you turn on the lathe. This world is too full of labels and endlessly trying to categorize everything and everybody.
Everyone is an expert on the internet.
I've never understood why it's important to be classified as beginner, intermediate, advanced, expert, etc. If you're enjoying what you do then you will learn new techniques, increase your skill level, and enjoy what you're doing even more. For me, it isn't important what that skill level is or what it is called. I enjoy producing a quality product. That gives me satisfaction. So, I'm not sure why you're asking nor if I even got why you asked correct, but just enjoy the wood turning and the result of it.
There isn't a woodturning guilde in the US that you have to join, start as an apprentice, become a journeyman, and finally be certified as a master. That may still exist in Europe. The only place that I can see it making any difference is taking a hands on class, such as Craft Supplies' school. If you are a complete beginner, as in never seen a lathe, you would not enjoy an advanced class, the rest of the students may get very frustrated because the instructor spends most of the time helping you. Or if you are reasonably skilled and take a beginner course, you might get bored sick learning what a headstock, tailstock, faceplate turning, and turning between centers is.
Dave Landers
Beta Tester
I can see a couple reasons to "label" someone (or yourself).
One would be for a class/demo - either describing who will benefit from your class or else deciding if you will benefit from a particular class.
Another would be for something like a club's instant gallery critique or president's challenge, etc - putting entries in categories so they're not compared unfairly with someone with much greater or lesser skills.
In either case, the boundaries between whatever categories exist are vague - a lot of overlap and/or no-mans-land. So self-identification is generally adequate for these sorts of things.
In other cases (like applying for a juried show etc) let the work speak for itself.
My $0.02
One would be for a class/demo - either describing who will benefit from your class or else deciding if you will benefit from a particular class.
Another would be for something like a club's instant gallery critique or president's challenge, etc - putting entries in categories so they're not compared unfairly with someone with much greater or lesser skills.
In either case, the boundaries between whatever categories exist are vague - a lot of overlap and/or no-mans-land. So self-identification is generally adequate for these sorts of things.
In other cases (like applying for a juried show etc) let the work speak for itself.
My $0.02
The OP's question is reasonable. It's hard not to carefully examine a turner's work and make some judgement or rating of a turner's skill level by the quality of workmanship in the piece.
Unfortunately there's isn't always a one to one correlation between the workmanship and the artistic quality of the work. Of course art is in the eye of the beholder, but still there are some works that appeal to the majority of viewer's sense of art.
These days we have so many ways to more easily achieve quality of workmanship (expensive equipment, CNC, threading jigs, ball turning jigs, etc, etc), but the design still is the most important and difficult IMO.
Unfortunately there's isn't always a one to one correlation between the workmanship and the artistic quality of the work. Of course art is in the eye of the beholder, but still there are some works that appeal to the majority of viewer's sense of art.
These days we have so many ways to more easily achieve quality of workmanship (expensive equipment, CNC, threading jigs, ball turning jigs, etc, etc), but the design still is the most important and difficult IMO.
Well, I guess we could say that I am a well seasoned turner! Far better on bowls than on spindles, but I am getting better with the skew....
robo hippy
robo hippy
Lots of woodturners I know (and other friends) are "well seasoned". Oh, did you mean relative to turning experience/ability?
Some of the best demonstrators I know are adept at providing something for nearly all skill levels, showing something complicated, for example, then show a simpler way to do about the same thing, perhaps pass around a simpler version brought from home. Some describe the project and steps then ask if there is anything in particular some would like to see.
I want to be just like them when I grow up.
JKJ
Depending on the kind of day I'm having, I can call myself a beginner/novice level woodturner, despite having 20+ years experience. 
There are no rules. It is simply up to the turner to decide what to call himself/herself.
When does a bowl become a platter? That is up to the maker to decide and no one else.
When does a vase become a hollow form? That is up to the maker to decide and no one else.
When does a bowl become a platter? That is up to the maker to decide and no one else.
When does a vase become a hollow form? That is up to the maker to decide and no one else.
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Levels are rough guides for skills needed to succeed in classes
Some woodturning shows have skill levels
As for assessing my self. - Depends on the subject, tools, techniques
I’m pretty good with gouges, hollow forms, bowls, NE bowls, spheres, ornaments, sand blasting
I get invited to demo and teach these topics
I’m ok with thread chasing, finishing, skew work, boxes, inside out turning, pens, platters, air brushing multi axis/ multi center work.
Advanced beginner level at carving and texturing
I’m not even at the beginning level in segmenting.
Some woodturning shows have skill levels
As for assessing my self. - Depends on the subject, tools, techniques
I’m pretty good with gouges, hollow forms, bowls, NE bowls, spheres, ornaments, sand blasting
I get invited to demo and teach these topics
I’m ok with thread chasing, finishing, skew work, boxes, inside out turning, pens, platters, air brushing multi axis/ multi center work.
Advanced beginner level at carving and texturing
I’m not even at the beginning level in segmenting.
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If I ever get to a point where I have nothing more to learn, then I "might" call myself a Master. Don't think that will EVER happen....
robo hippy
robo hippy
I learn something every day in my shop. I guess that makes me a student of this lifelong journey called Woodturning.
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Years ago I was working on an old machinists Saab.
He came to me because folks said I was an Expert or so he'd heard.
One day he asked me if I knew the definition of "Expert"
Knowing his sense of humor, I said no, but your gonna tell me aren't you.
He smiled and said
" An Ex is a has been and a spurt is a drip under pressure"
I always remembered that.
I'm a novice wood turner and having a ball.
I learn something new every time I'm at my lathe.
I look at the work folks here do and think "I'm gonna try that".
Gives me something to aspire to.
Craig
Years ago I was working on an old machinists Saab.
He came to me because folks said I was an Expert or so he'd heard.
One day he asked me if I knew the definition of "Expert"
Knowing his sense of humor, I said no, but your gonna tell me aren't you.
He smiled and said
" An Ex is a has been and a spurt is a drip under pressure"
I always remembered that.
I'm a novice wood turner and having a ball.
I learn something new every time I'm at my lathe.
I look at the work folks here do and think "I'm gonna try that".
Gives me something to aspire to.
Craig
In an unrelated parallel realm, at work, I tell my boss that the ego of my <5 year remaining career doesn't need those out-of-the-ordinary, special, complex projects anymore. Those now should go to the newbies, with me standing behind them watching and providing gentle nudges when needed. They need to develop into tomorrow's journeymen, and next year's masters. The future belongs to them, not me. Gotta get it out of my head and into theirs where it will continue to do some good. He supports that fully- he'll still be around with these young-uns after I'm gone.
If you have a skill you've mastered, vocational or not, pass it along to those coming up, like those before you did for you. Don't let it slip into oblivion.
If you have a skill you've mastered, vocational or not, pass it along to those coming up, like those before you did for you. Don't let it slip into oblivion.
It seems to me there is never a good reason to rate your skills. The only goal is to improve and get "better" each time you make something.... and to enjoy making it.
My rate would be classed as, "Wannabee."
No interest in rating myself.
The local woodturning group has about 15 lathes of various sizes, including eight midis (?) used for classes. Throughout the year a number of project classes are offered, some needing just a few tool skills, vocabulary knowledge and concept understanding. Others like multi axis spindles and other more involved projects require students have more proficiency and knowledge to keep up in the class.
Several times a year I offer a four hour spindle turning tool control class, expecting those who sign up to have limited wood turning experience, But that is not the case for other offered classes.
Perhap if the local group were to be able clearly to describe and define wood turning levels on the web site, and indicate the suggested minimum wood turning level as part of the class description, members would be more confident signing up for classes.
The local woodturning group has about 15 lathes of various sizes, including eight midis (?) used for classes. Throughout the year a number of project classes are offered, some needing just a few tool skills, vocabulary knowledge and concept understanding. Others like multi axis spindles and other more involved projects require students have more proficiency and knowledge to keep up in the class.
Several times a year I offer a four hour spindle turning tool control class, expecting those who sign up to have limited wood turning experience, But that is not the case for other offered classes.
Perhap if the local group were to be able clearly to describe and define wood turning levels on the web site, and indicate the suggested minimum wood turning level as part of the class description, members would be more confident signing up for classes.
On any given day, I’m a rookie, so so, ok, average, experienced, pro, or master. No class or experience is wasted. I always learn something from someone else. As a good friend once told me, steal with your eyes.
My favorite definition of an Expert is someone who makes all their mistakes in private.
I certainly don't qualify - I make mine right out in the open then post them on Facebook.
(Actually, I made up the part about Facebook- haven't even looked at it in a bunch of years.)
JKJ
In my AAW Chapter meetings we have an instant gallery at every meeting. A part of the gallery is set aside for a monthly challenge where members bring in something that matches the topic... many times related to the demonstration from the month before. There is a vote from the meeting attendees during the break to choose the best one in three categories: Novice, Intermediate, and Advanced/Experienced. The folks who bring in their turnings for the challenge all self-identify what skill or experience level they are at. There are gift cards for the winners in each category. I think that works great, so we get more participants, especially at the beginner level. It can be intimidating for someone starting out or trying a technique for the first time to stand the scrutiny of their peers. (Even if the membership is incredibly supportive of anyone's progress on their woodturning journey.) Bringing my first efforts in at clearly a beginner level brought support, a window into self-evaluation, and new ideas. Absolutely helped me grow as a turner.
Dave Landers
Beta Tester
I think the best option for classes like this, rather than (or in addition to) putting them in a particular skill-bucket, is to clearly describe what is expected of those who sign up. Like "we will be working on tool control for those with limited spindle turning experience" or "the multi-axis class is for those modestly proficient in spindle turning", or "this class is for anyone needing help with sharpening", etc. That way you 'adjust' for the difference in your definitions (beginner/expert/etc) vs the student's. And you can get the dude who has been bowl turning for 20 years and now wants to make spindles, etc.
The challenge is presenting and highlighting that info clearly at the beginning of the class definition (before people stop reading)
Time in the saddle might be another way to think about it; but then again some will have 10yrs of experience, while another has 1yr ten times…
Ratings, yeah nah, for me its a bit like having to know the rpm. Its not that important, I always tend to push the enevelope some as no challenges seem to close to boredom for me.