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Yet another hollowing system question

Alan Weinberg

Alan Weinberg

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Jamieson, Bosch, or Elbo? Or is there something else that’s better? I know there are a lot of threads but is there one thread that compares the pros and cons of the top hollowing systems? Or is there new information?

I’m looking to hollow up to 12 inches, later to add laser or camera assistance (potentially), and of course value.

Leaning toward Jamieson though it’s a bulky system for storage.

I have a PM3520 lathe.

Thoughts or direction? Thanks.
 
what I used for many years is the Jamieson with the 3/4” bosch bars.
I got the Simon Hope support a few years ago - easier to setup for demos

3/4 “ bars work well up to about 9” deep.
Depending on patience and skill you might get 12 but the fun decreases.
For deeper forms I have 1.5 “ bar made by CA Savoy and a 1.5” Jamison bar.
This gets me to about 14” deep comfortably.

Jamieson is a good value and does everything the other systems do equally well.
 
the Jamieson system is probably the best system for what your looking to do, i have a PM 3520 also and i use the Jamieson hollowing system alot, i do have an Elbo tool that i use for smaller hollow forms, it is faster and easier to set up and im able to us the same laser with both, i also have a Rolly Monroe hollowing tool that i got as a gift, i like it alot but i never got comfortable controlling the wall thickness with it, all that being said i do use the 3/4" Monroe bar in the Jamieson and the Elbo tool which works great.

to answer your question: my opinion, the Jamieson system is probably the best value for the money, if you are going deeper than 10-12" you will want to get the larger boring bar that Lyle offers as well,
 
I have Trent Bosch's Stabilizer for hollowing and the Visualizer as an add-on. Even without the Visulaizer, the Bosch hollowing system is great. It takes a lot of the shoulder/arm abuse out of hollowing. The Visualizer is a great add-on. Without much learning time, I was able to get a hollow-form with thinner, wave-less walls. The Stabilizer makes hollowing easier. The Stabilizer and Visualizer together eliminates concerns about going through a wall or the bottom.
 
Norm Marentette said:
I also am a big fan of the Trent Bosch stabilizer and made my own visualizer. A great system and easy to store which really makes a difference if your short on storage space.
Click to expand...
Second on the Bosch stabilizer. I use it with Jamieson bars and cutters. Made my own visualizer as well. The 3/4" bars will go to 11" or so but the last couple inches need a light cut. I have hollowed to 14" using an 1.25" bar.
 
Recently bought the Elbo 2 system after using a home made elbo style hollower. One of the reasons being storage, no space to store d-handle and bars on my walls. Much easier to fold up and store in tool chest. Day one I used it to dish out a good sized bowl I had on the lathe. Worked great. I hollowed out two urns just over ten inches with the home made system with very little problems. If the elbo 2 works any where near it I should be able to go 14” or more depending on bar length. I also was able to mount my camera to the laser bar. Planning on getting 1” bar after I get some more time with the 3/4” bar.
 
Alan Weinberg said:
the pros and cons of the top hollowing systems
Click to expand...
All the major systems work well
There is one big difference between the Bosch and the Jamieson.

With the Jamieson the support structure is behind you and you work closer to the form.
I very much like working close to the form and I think I have a bit more control being close to the tool rest..
Much easier to see the laser if you use that. Video is the same for both.

With the Bosch you have the support mechanism between you and the form. You hollow using a handle.
I have hollowed two forms with the Bosch stabilizer. I don’t like working further from the form or guiding with the handle.
That is me. You need to consider what your preferences are.

You might like working further from the form.
You might think the handle gives you more control.

If you haven’t used either system or done any hand hollowing you may not have an opinion.
There is no right or wrong but there is a big difference in the two.
 
I suggest that you find someone in your club that has one or all of the choices you are thinking about. Then, ask if you can try them. Show up with a block of wood and try them. You might find that you like one setup better than the other.
I have both the Trent Bosch setup and the Jamieson system. Actually, like them both.
I think you should learn how to hollow without a stabilizer first. Even it is on smaller vessels. Just to get the feel of what you are trying to do. Then, go to the stabilized system.
 
I think the Bosch Stabilizer gives a lot of leverage with no sacrifice in control. You’re guiding the tool with one hand while using the handle to provide more leverage. I haven’t used the Jamieson system but I like the Bosch system a lot. Hollowing is fast and easy. The advice to find a way try one or both before buying is good advice. Each turner has their own preferences and ways of doing things.
 
~7 yrs ago I really started studying hollowing systems. Spent ~ 18 mo mentally working through the processing, capability, storage and value of the different types of systems (my career was manufacturing engineering). I chose the “I want it all” Jamieson system with laser. Bosch was a lot more $ for ~equal capability. I did not like the concept of standing behind and guiding the tool, but I think the Bosch could be used in front. The other articulated systems didn’t get deep enough. I’ve done up to ~15” with the 1-1/8” bar.

I had done quite a bit of hollowing hand held, and still do smaller pieces. After I blew up yet another 95% complete piece due to a lapse in concentration, I placed the order. Standing at the front fits better for me. All of the different capabilities of the system have been great, but it takes time to determine when to configure the system different ways as different areas need removed.

I used the laser for ~year, then configured a camera system (visualizer) that uses the laser support to hold the camera ($65, I had a monitor). I havent used the laser since.

IMO the Jamieson system is the best value for a large range of capability (1/2”, 3/4”, and 1-1/8” bar plus the 2 swivels, as well as hss and carbide cutters). I use the small bars that hold the swivels to hold teardrop hss cutters when I need a smooth interior.

Storage - yes, it takes up more space. My D handle with laser support hangs from the ceiling horizontally over the “walkway” between tables/machines, and the back support hangs from the ceiling vertically over my tool box. The bars are stored in a cabinet drawer in foam with cutouts.
 
Doug Freeman said:
I used the laser for ~year, then configured a camera system (visualizer) that uses the laser support to hold the camera ($65, I had a monitor). I havent used the laser since.
Click to expand...

What kind of camera did you end up with? Is it easy to swap in a camera or does it require rigging up some kind of adapter?
 
Everyone is avoiding his first demand. Hollowing to 12" or more. The Jamieson large bar will do that. I haven't used the Steve Sinner system. All of the articulated systems I've seen or used have 3/4" bars. Takes a lot of patience to get to 12". The thicker bars make it easy. I took a class with Frank Sudol. We used massive bar that worked like the Jamieson. We hollowed to 16" deep and used an internal light to get our vessels to 3mm thick. I can't say enough about thick bars fir deep hollowing.
 
I'm echoing John's recommendation. I have The Jamieson Heavier Bar and have no trouble hollowing 12". I also have the Clark system for up to 25" deep. I can interchange some of the components of both systems. For larger pieces, I always start with the Jamieson for the first 8" inches of boring then switch over to the heavier Clark system. Both use laser or camera systems. I started with laser and for larger pieces I like keeping my eye on the workpiece rather than a camera as I hollow. I never upgraded to a camera system due to monitor placement issues. I store both systems on the wall when not in use.
 
I use the Hunter bars in conjunction with his hollowing tools and have zero trouble going 12" with the 3/4" bar and 18" with the 1" bar no matter which of my hollowing systems I use.
 
I used the Jamieson system for years and got along ok. However, am now using Trent's Stabilizer and am really pleased with it. For me, standing in front of the HF while turning works better than on the side. That's just me.
 
Asher Langton said:
What kind of camera did you end up with? Is it easy to swap in a camera or does it require rigging up some kind of adapter?
Click to expand...
My camera is a mini older security/monitoring type, about 1-1/2” square. Yes I rigged a mount - easy. Turned a piece of wood, leaving one end square ~1/4 thick, and turned the rest ~3” long to the laser dia. 3M auto moulding double sided tape holds the camera to the square.
 
hockenbery said:
With the Bosch you have the support mechanism between you and the form. You hollow using a handle.
I have hollowed two forms with the Bosch stabilizer. I don’t like working further from the form or guiding with the handle.
That is me. You need to consider what your preferences are.
Click to expand...
My reason for liking Trent's stabilizer is that I can hold/use the tool in the same way as I would without the stabilizer (standing at the end of the lathe). I go back and forth between hand-held and using the stabilizer, so it's nice (for me) that the stabilizer just helps hold the tool rather than having me change technique. It's also pretty easy to set up as it just goes in the banjo like any other tool rest.

I have done 12" with 3/4" bar in the stabilizer, but it's about the limit. Have to go slow and careful.
Trent's 1" bars (I dont' have any - yet) are turned down for a 3/4" handle (and/or to fit in the 3/4" stabilizer).

The best advice tho is to find (or make) some friends who'll let you try out various things and see what matches your needs.
 
Alan Weinberg said:
Jamieson, Bosch, or Elbo? Or is there something else that’s better? I know there are a lot of threads but is there one thread that compares the pros and cons of the top hollowing systems? Or is there new information?

I’m looking to hollow up to 12 inches, later to add laser or camera assistance (potentially), and of course value.

Leaning toward Jamieson though it’s a bulky system for storage.

I have a PM3520 lathe.

Thoughts or direction? Thanks.
Click to expand...
I am not aware of a thread discussion regarding a comparison of the systems. But for personal feedback - I have a PM350. I have a basement shop so space is tight. I had a Jamieson system. It was sturdy, and easy to use. But bulky and cumbersome to use and store in my small shop. I got the Bosch system and it's easy to use and store. If I had the space and wanted to do larger than 12" I wold probably use the Jamieson.
 
Bill Blasic said:
I use the Hunter bars in conjunction with his hollowing tools and have zero trouble going 12" with the 3/4" bar and 18" with the 1" bar no matter which of my hollowing systems I use.
Click to expand...
That’s what I plan to buy after deciding what hollowing system. Storage is a bit of an issue for me which is a slight negative for Jamieson.
 
Alan Weinberg said:
Jamieson, Bosch, or Elbo? Or is there something else that’s better? I know there are a lot of threads but is there one thread that compares the pros and cons of the top hollowing systems? Or is there new information?

I’m looking to hollow up to 12 inches, later to add laser or camera assistance (potentially), and of course value.

Leaning toward Jamieson though it’s a bulky system for storage.

I have a PM3520 lathe.

Thoughts or direction? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Hi Alan, You will get 100 people give you 150 different answers. How do you compare apples and oranges. I would break it down in a few categories. 1)History, where is it made and why. 2)Limits and obstacles from the system, 3) accessibility to shapes, versatility, 4)Easy to use on the body, 5)The measuring system, easy fast and accurate, 6)Service and reputation, 7)Educational assistance for use of system. Call me if you have any questions.
 
john lucas said:
Everyone is avoiding his first demand. Hollowing to 12" or more. The Jamieson large bar will do that. I haven't used the Steve Sinner system. All of the articulated systems I've seen or used have 3/4" bars. Takes a lot of patience to get to 12". The thicker bars make it easy. I took a class with Frank Sudol. We used massive bar that worked like the Jamieson. We hollowed to 16" deep and used an internal light to get our vessels to 3mm thick. I can't say enough about thick bars fir deep hollowing.
Click to expand...
Second this! I can only get to about 11" of depth with the standard 3/4" bar. I can get to 16" with a home modified 1 -1/4" bar added to my Bosch stabilizer. An articulating arm can be used from the lathe side or end per your preference. Captured bar only from the side. I don't think it matters that much what system you use as long as it holds the bar securely and is easy enough to operate. What does make a difference is the mass of your bar and the cutter you choose. The more bar mass, the deeper you can get off of the tool rest. Figure out the maximum depth you plan on hollowing in the future. Settle on a system that will handle it.
 
Trent bosch hollowing tools are great. There's a 1" bar that will go over 12" deep but I haven't used it. I have the 3/4 HSS without the stabilizer. Very happy with it.
 
I love my TB system with homemade camera setup. I hollow with the lathe in reverse so I can maintain my position on the front side. TB was happy to make the bent bars going the other way to accomodate this. I can get to 12" w the 3/4" bars if I slow down a bit.
 
john lucas said:
Everyone is avoiding his first demand. Hollowing to 12" or more. The Jamieson large bar will do that. I haven't used the Steve Sinner system. All of the articulated systems I've seen or used have 3/4" bars. Takes a lot of patience to get to 12". The thicker bars make it easy. I took a class with Frank Sudol. We used massive bar that worked like the Jamieson. We hollowed to 16" deep and used an internal light to get our vessels to 3mm thick. I can't say enough about thick bars fir deep hollowing.
Click to expand...
Turns out, you can use a Jamieson large 1 1/4" bar on the Trent Bosch stabilizer. Just need to adjust the height of the rest. But, one needs to adjust the height if they go to a smaller diameter hollowing tool anyway.
Although, I think if one were turning wet wood, reaching 12" into a vessel could be done with a 3/4" dia. bar. I have hollowed 12" deep using a Stewart Handle with a 3/4" bar on it. But, the Stewart Handle is hand held, not stabilized except by me.

I still say......find another woodturner that has one or both and try them. Find the one that you feel most comfortable using. Quit listening to the rest of us.
 
There is another option that has not been mentioned.

Like Ronald Kanne, I don't use a rig to do hollow forms. I use the same Woodcut hollowing tips and bar freehand shown by him in the following video for the next 7mins from the marked starting position....

View: https://youtu.be/gZ5a2iUE7E4?t=1164



I learned to turn a long time before I turned my first hollow form and that was well before any of the first 'rigs' were on the market. So, I managed to turn hollow forms without any 'rig', as such, and have done so ever since.

I reckon that there are others who could also manage to do their hollowing without a dedicated rig or at least give it a go.

Here is another video in which Phill Irons is also using the Woodcut Pro-Forme hollowing tool freehand...

View: https://youtu.be/jASyHGahVOc?t=673


Woodcut also has bent shafts for reaching undercut shoulders.
 
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I learned to hollow without a rig. But when hollowing deep forms I was always nervous and tens with a lot of stress. The captured bar systems take that away. It's so much fun hollowing with one hand very relaxed with my homemade Jamieson rig.
 
I suspect there are more than a few turners who have tweaked their shoulders, elbows or wrists with hand-held hollowing tools and moved to a captured system. I had a near disaster using a small cutter in one of John Jordan's foam-covered handles when I let the chips build up inside the form I was turning. The tool caught and started spinning and (fortunately) tore the fingers off the rubber-coated gloves I was wearing, otherwise I would have sustained serious injury. Like most shop accidents this owed a good deal to stupidity/inattention, but had I been using a captured bar the likelihood of personal damage would have been minimized. I'm not suggesting hand-held hollowing is a bad idea for others, but I limit it to shallow forms.

I use a Clark hollower which is quite heavy duty and well-suited to deep hollowing. Lyle's system is simple, proven and versatile, but it does require a long lathe bed or extension to support the backrest. Trent Bosch's rig is well-made, very convenient to set up and requires the least bed length due to its banjo mounting. I highly recommend a video camera over a laser for monitoring wall thickness.
 
Kevin Jenness said:
Trent Bosch's rig is well-made, very convenient to set up and requires the least bed length due to its banjo mounting. I highly recommend a video camera over a laser for monitoring wall thickness.
Click to expand...
Ditto on the video
The Jamieson only needs about 4 inches more bed than than the Bosch.
I extend my backrest off short bed lathes with a 2x6. Have done demos on a jet 1221 with the back rest extended out on the 2x6.
Jamison sells a nice extender.

A 2x6 and a few bolts is not pretty but works great.
 
Alan, all of the hollowing tools you've mentioned are good. You'll find there are limitations to all of them too. I believe that it's best to choose the system that seems most intuitive to you and then just practice with it. The real difference in these systems is the bars and cutters. You'll find that the turners whose work you really admire are probably combining what bars and cutters are available and even making their own. Every shape and size of hollowform presents its own challenges and there just isn't a one size fits all system out there.
 
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