Finish Crisis

[Marianne Patton]

Do I go forward, go backward, or give up?? Here's where I'm stuck: cherry bowl, 3 coats Waterlox, well cured. Started 3-stage Beall system with 4" bowl buffs. Stage 1 EEE went on nicely & removed some tiny scratches. Stage 2 White Diamond is causing obvious streaks, in whatever direction I hold the bowl against the buff. Too obvious to ignore. Have I gone thru the finish? Do I keep on pressing the diamond, go back to EEE, skip to Stage 3 Carnauba, or???
Thank you!

 

[Karl Loeblein]

You probably had too much White Diamond on the buffing wheel. Try clean your buffing wheels by holding low grit sandpaper (60 or 40 grit) or a sharp edge board to the wheel while it's spinning. Then apply very little white diamond compound to the buffing wheel when it's needed. You still might need to back up to EEE after cleaning the white diamond buffing wheel though.

 

[Wes Head]

I find that White Diamond often will cloud a fine Waterlox finish, and usually avoid it. For problematic situations like that I have built up Waterlox, buffed, and then wipe a few very thin coats of Waterlox, with an almost dry paper towel. To dry the towel I get the towel a bit damp, then squeeze it with a dry towel to get it to the point where it will barely put down an even coat. It almost dries as it touches the bowl. That may be all you need. If not, after a hard cure, either gently buff with a basically clean White Diamond, or caress your bowl with automotive polish. Which is satisfying to do while watching TV.

 

[Mike Peace]

It has been my experience that when refreshing the White Diamond wheel it only takes a second or second and a half compared to maybe twice as long refreshing the EEE.

 

[hockenbery]

I’ve buffed a lot of Waterlox finished pieces with the Beal buffing system.

It does a great job of leveling and refining the surface of the finish.

it might be that the streaks are from EEE left on the surface. Over charged EEE wheel can leave a coating on the work. Clean the EEE wheel using the sharp edge of a board.
Use the EEE wheel to remove the EEE and blow off any residue.

You have to keep all the EEE off of the white diamond wheel or it becomes another EEE wheel.

 

[john lucas]

I'm with Al. Probably streaks from too much wax.on the wheels. Lean the wheels, I use the sharpmedge of a board like Al. The start over with the course grit and then go to the fine. Worse case scenario, uff all of the old finish off and star over.

 

[Donovan Bailey]

I'm always reluctant to pass on recommendations without seeing someone turn, however, I use a lot of Waterlox and Antique Oil as a finish so I'll relay a pointer that works for me. The pointer is how I buff these finishes in that I use considerable pressure on the buffing wheel while I'm using the red application....however, (after cleaning off the red residue) I just use light pressure (let the tip of the buffing wheel do the work) when I go both white and wax. I have found that if you push as hard while using the white/diamond application, it definitely does not improve the final finish...it just invites mischief. For what it is worth...

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Do I go forward, go backward, or give up?? Here's where I'm stuck: cherry bowl, 3 coats Waterlox, well cured. Started 3-stage Beall system with 4" bowl buffs. Stage 1 EEE went on nicely & removed some tiny scratches. Stage 2 White Diamond is causing obvious streaks, in whatever direction I hold the bowl against the buff. Too obvious to ignore. Have I gone thru the finish? Do I keep on pressing the diamond, go back to EEE, skip to Stage 3 Carnauba, or???
Thank you!

You say “well cured” and I will ask how long since the last coat, I use and have for at least 20 years put the Polymerized Tung Oil (PTO) finish on my turnings, I leave my turnings at least a couple of weeks in a warm place to harden up, before buffing the pieces.

If the finish is not hard you could end up stripping the top off of the finish and have it then show as streaks, it should not have gone through, as the oil will penetrate the wood, and your buffing will not remove that.

You could try to remove the streaks by having the bowl spin and then hold a rag against it, changing the rag so what comes off is not put back on.

If all is off you should be able to tell if the finish is good or needs replenishing, and yes as others have mentioned, do not overcharge the buffs with any of the compounds, I have used a fine hacksaw blade to roughing and removing buffing compounds from the buffs, works well for me, good luck with your project.

 

[Marianne Patton]

You probably had too much White Diamond on the buffing wheel. Try clean your buffing wheels by holding low grit sandpaper (60 or 40 grit) or a sharp edge board to the wheel while it's spinning. Then apply very little white diamond compound to the buffing wheel when it's needed. You still might need to back up to EEE after cleaning the white diamond buffing wheel though.

Bingo! I did that, went back to EEE, and the problem is solved. Thank you so much; the bowl is beautiful and in time for the party.

 

[Marianne Patton]

You say “well cured” and I will ask how long since the last coat, I use and have for at least 20 years put the Polymerized Tung Oil (PTO) finish on my turnings, I leave my turnings at least a couple of weeks in a warm place to harden up, before buffing the pieces.

If the finish is not hard you could end up stripping the top off of the finish and have it then show as streaks, it should not have gone through, as the oil will penetrate the wood, and your buffing will not remove that.

You could try to remove the streaks by having the bowl spin and then hold a rag against it, changing the rag so what comes off is not put back on.

If all is off you should be able to tell if the finish is good or needs replenishing, and yes as others have mentioned, do not overcharge the buffs with any of the compounds, I have used a fine hacksaw blade to roughing and removing buffing compounds from the buffs, works well for me, good luck with your project.

Thanks Leo, your experience is a good teacher. The buff was definitely too full, and I definitely need more finishing tutelage. But the bowl is saved! Happy holidays!

 

[Marianne Patton]

It has been my experience that when refreshing the White Diamond wheel it only takes a second or second and a half compared to maybe twice as long refreshing the EEE.

Yup, you nailed it. I cleaned up, started over, and saved the bowl. Thanks for your help, Mike, and your YouTube channel! Happy holidays!

 

[Marianne Patton]

I'm always reluctant to pass on recommendations without seeing someone turn, however, I use a lot of Waterlox and Antique Oil as a finish so I'll relay a pointer that works for me. The pointer is how I buff these finishes in that I use considerable pressure on the buffing wheel while I'm using the red application....however, (after cleaning off the red residue) I just use light pressure (let the tip of the buffing wheel do the work) when I go both white and wax. I have found that if you push as hard while using the white/diamond application, it definitely does not improve the final finish...it just invites mischief. For what it is worth...

That is exactly what I was doing, and mischief happened. Thank you so much; the bowl has been saved!

 

[Marianne Patton]

You probably had too much White Diamond on the buffing wheel. Try clean your buffing wheels by holding low grit sandpaper (60 or 40 grit) or a sharp edge board to the wheel while it's spinning. Then apply very little white diamond compound to the buffing wheel when it's needed. You still might need to back up to EEE after cleaning the white diamond buffing wheel though.

You're right, I did. Backed up to EEE and saved the bowl. Lesson learned; thanks so much!

 

[Marianne Patton]

I’ve buffed a lot of Waterlox finished pieces with the Beal buffing system.

It does a great job of leveling and refining the surface of the finish.

it might be that the streaks are from EEE left on the surface. Over charged EEE wheel can leave a coating on the work. Clean the EEE wheel using the sharp edge of a board.
Use the EEE wheel to remove the EEE and blow off any residue.

You have to keep all the EEE off of the white diamond wheel or it becomes another EEE wheel.

This is encouraging; i was about to give up either Waterlox or Beal, but your suggestions worked and I will keep learning. Thanks!

 

[Marianne Patton]

I find that White Diamond often will cloud a fine Waterlox finish, and usually avoid it. For problematic situations like that I have built up Waterlox, buffed, and then wipe a few very thin coats of Waterlox, with an almost dry paper towel. To dry the towel I get the towel a bit damp, then squeeze it with a dry towel to get it to the point where it will barely put down an even coat. It almost dries as it touches the bowl. That may be all you need. If not, after a hard cure, either gently buff with a basically clean White Diamond, or caress your bowl with automotive polish. Which is satisfying to do while watching TV.

This is so helpful; thank you, especially the TV part! The bowl is saved, I've learned a lot from everyone, and I sure have more to learn.