Lathe advice

[Don C Davis]

I am going to purchase a larger lathe, I currently have a NOVA DVR XP and I has pretty much made up my mind on going with a Laguna 24-36 but I scouted around on the internet and found a lot of complaints about Laguna's customer service. Most all this was from 3 or more years ago, I don't know if it represents the current state of Laguna's CS, I called the 800 number and talked to a very knowledgeable and helpful fellow, which made me feel pretty good about the current Laguna CS.

I've also looked at the PM 3520C, but it's $700-800 more and has 1HP less of a motor. I have looked at the 18-36 at the local Rockler and it is rock solid, and the Rockler guys like it a lot, I just wanted to inquire here with you folks and ask if you had a budget of $3500 were there other lathes you think I should look at, or would you just go with the Laguna???

I appreciate any input/feedback!

 

[Ronald Plumley]

Don - if you can wait till the Etowah River meeting next week (3/7/18 if you're in the Canton Ga area, everyone), we worked on the Laguna lathe when we were doing our demonstrations... you might get some input from those of us who were demoing.

 

[William Rogers]

In that price range about the only lathes that come to mind are the Grizzly G0800 and the possibility of finding a new PM 3520B that has been discounted. I have the Laguna 18-36 and like it a lot. As far as Laguna CS they have been very good to deal with. I have only had questions as no problems with the lathe. From what I have seen lately the CS problem is a thing of the past.

 

[Don C Davis]

Ronald, I think I'm going to be at the next meeting so I was going to ask around indeed. William Rogers that's exactly the type of input I was looking for--Thank you!

 

[Peter Misiaszek]

I just had a CS issue with a new Laguna band saw. One call got immediate, no hassle response. Two days later, the replacement parts arrived from CA to FL. No charges.

 

[Don C Davis]

Peter, I think your reply has pushed me to the Laguna--recent real world experiences mean a lot to me!

 

[john lucas]

I did not know there was a club in Canton, GA. I have demoed for most of the clubs in Georgia. Doing Elijay on the 8th and Columbus on the 10th. My mother lives in Lawrenceville, Ga so I drive right through canton on hwy 20 when I go to visit. If you ever need a demonstrator give me a call.
the Laguna CS problems were many years ago. It was bad back then but I'm thinking that was like 8 or 10 years ago. I haven't heard any complaints as of the last few years. I looked the lathe over pretty hard at our symposium and it's a pretty sweet lathe. Of course I love my Powermatic 3520A and it would be hard to win me over to another lathe but I'm always looking.

 

[Don C Davis]

Our club is pretty new, about a year and a half old, I will tell Larry our club president brother, appreciate it!

 

[Jon Minerich]

Don,

I am also a Laguna Revo owner and love it. I called customer service for advice on a small issue and they were great.

 

[Don C Davis]

Thanks Jon, this is good intel!

 

[Bruce Schoenleber]

Two years ago I had an issue with my Laguna bandsaw, their customer service took good care of me. Years ago there were nothing but complaints regarding Laguna CS, I have to believe that the company listened and corrected that problem. I like that.

 

[Stefano Bastianelli]

Don, if it can help.....
I had a great experience with Laguna CS. Little problem on the banjo, nothing crazy to stop me to turn, anyway they sent me a new banjo 5 days later.

 

[robo hippy]

Hmm, I had an issue with customer service two days ago regarding my 16HD bandsaw. 15 years old and I needed the contact switch. Phone rang about 15 times before some one answered it. They sent me to parts where I got voice mail. I left a message but got no call back. I called back the next day, and got some one. Well, we have your case on record. Fine, I need this part. We don't have any parts numbers for it. I have the brand name and part number right here. Those numbers mean nothing to me.... I had to copy and paste the part that I simply googled, and good thing I did because parts were less than half of what Laguna was going to charge me.

Some of the Laguna lathes have 25mm posts for their tool rests, and a 1 inch post will not fit. The mobility kit wheels are a trip hazard for me since they stick out away from the lathe legs and I turn bowls on the end of the lathe rather than long bed style. Other than that, not a bad lathe.

robo hippy

 

[Mike Johnson]

This is becoming a common problem with many manufacturers and the components they use. The vendors they use to supply the components to build the machines with are running into the obsolescence issue on an ever increasing rate. The component companies are being acquired and rolled up under fewer names and the old parts are being replaced by offshore replacements on an ever increasing rate. I just had one major industrial supplier that makes big dollar equipment play this game for several months with trying to get a replacement disconnect switch for a million dollar machine and they quoted me $2700.00 for a part that I could source myself from Grainger for $150.00. The level of incompetence in the industrial world amazes me every day, it is getting to the point where I don't even bother contacting some of these manufacturers and suppliers because there knowledge base has been depleted by people retiring or they outsource their customer service to telemarketing firms. Peggy seems to never ever know anything except what is written on her script page.

 

[olaf Vogel]

Mike,

You make an interesting case.
Go to Indiamart.com, register and start looking. Anyone recognize this? Now ask for prices.


Its a PITA to deal with, but you'll find many of your common machines here. Because its where they are made.
Some will be for North America, hence imperial dimensions, some global, hence metric.

The North American distributor will sell what they can get.

So now what you buying?
1 - local support
2 - re-assurance you can send it back.
- both are implicitly parts of your warranty.
4 - shipping cost - significant on heavy machines
5 - brand (as a perception of quality) - something I personally don't value

The question is, how much of a mark up is that worth?

Admittedly, I've not bought machines from overseas to due to shipping cost.
But I am looking for a metal spinning lathe. And prices over in India are really good.

The support issues don't bother me. I'll fix it myself.

I have played this game with very high carbon fibre bicycles - I race triathlons.
North American or European bikes of this type are $5,000 - 15,000.
WAY out of my league. And many are still made in Asia, but re-branded.

So I bought a no-name carbon frame off eBay. Had it shipped straight from China. Assembled it myself. Cost - $1300. Verdict? Its by far the best bike I've ever had. And thats after 30 years of building and riding high end bikes.

So the quality from Asia can be very high. (sure there is also crap)

The game (Mike describes) that is played by distributors, is to charge a markup of 300% - 1000% for parts & accessories or any aftermarket service. And thats on parts they don't need to stock because they are generic.
They have the cross reference for part numbers. BMW is a terrible offender of this practice.

 

[Don C Davis]

Robo, that's bad to hear--Packard Woodworks, who I like and trust--had them on sale for 10% off, and they told me they felt Laguna had addressed the customer service thing and that they had actual names and direct #'s for guys to help them on issues. So--I pulled the trigger on a 24-36 and the swing away for the tailstock. I guess I'll see--I just hate the puke gold on powermatics, plus I just couldn't pay 700-800 more for the only difference I liked was the handwheel on the back of the headstock, and it has 1 HP less than the Laguna....another YouTube idol of mine, Simon Gadoury-SG Art turning is a big Laguna fan, and he told me I wouldn't be disappointed....

olaf, I agree with all you posted--I just didn't look on Indiamart!

 

[robo hippy]

Parts are a pain. When I had to replace the headstock bearings on my old PM3520A, I sourced the bearings, a new belt, and had it installed for less than I could get the parts for from PM. If I get another lathe, I will most likely get a Vicmarc. I really need to spend a week or so on one so both the lathe and I can work up a good sweat.... Laguna makes pretty good quality stuff, but like most things, I would make changes.... Engineer's motto: If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it anyway..... Some of us have it worse than others...

robo hippy

 

[Don C Davis]

Robo, I looked at and have turned on a Vicmarc--very solid for sure, but honestly you are paying a lot for the name IMO--I absolutely could not justify the cost of one--same applies to Robust--they are super, and have a superior warranty, but honestly I don't think that a warranty is really a factor when you start really looking hard at lathes north of 4 K --IMO, you have to believe in certain things, like HP ratings and quality of materials, but other than stability and precision, I really don't know what else makes one lathe superior to another--of course certain functionality, like how the banjo works, and what size the through holes are in the tailstock/headstock, stop switches, indexing, bed adjustability, etc. may be of a specific preference--for example I really like the banjo and how the tool rest clamps on the Laguna--and I dislike the lack of a for real handwheel on the headstock, but that is something I decided I could live with--I also like the way the headstock spindle locks up on my Nova--but it doesn't please me on the Laguna, or the PM, and frankly I don't remember how it worked on the Vicmarcs or Robust's I've turned on--so I figure I'll just live with it, and remember I saved the 7-800 bucks when I am funking with the spindle lock on the Laguna--maybe I can even rig up a fixture that will keep it locked hands free some how----I am hoping this will be my best/last lathe I purchase--but I never say never....I shall see pretty soon!

 

[Roger Chandler]

I was saving for a Robust American Beauty, which I have turned on a friends unit a couple of times...sweet machine. Just recently, I dove deep into the schematics of several units including the Revo 2436. I found it has two bearings on the spindle, and they are made by Harvey Industries company in China, which also makes the Powermatic lathes. They also make their own Harvey Turbo-60 which is a 24/36 lathe. The Grizzly G0800 is a 24/48 lathe. The other clone which is very heavy duty and is configured more like the T-60 is the Grizzly G0800, which I purchased. It has 3 bearings on the spindle, where the Laguna has two, and they are smaller than the Grizzly G0800. The Laguna Revo 2436 has a pendant control which can mount on the tailstock area, which is nice, but I preferred having the extra heavy duty build of the G0800, and the Revo 2436 has a steel bed, where the G0800 has an all heavy cast iron alloy which is refined to a mirror finish, and is so smooth and has an advanced induction motor, a better inverter than the S1 on the Laguna. The machining is to very refined and exacting standards, and the swing away bed extension is so very nice. I hope this information will cause you to at least take a look, as an option and help you in your decision.

As I mentioned, I dove really deep on the build and mechanicals. The belt on the G0800 is for high torque applications, and so far, I could not be more pleased with this beast of a lathe in my shop.

 

[Mike Johnson]

If you spend 8-10-12 hours a day working at a lathe you want every feature of the machine
to work flawlessly. The extra money spent on the machine will pay for itself over time. Turning
production pieces by hand on a wood lathe efficiently requires such a machine, or you will end
up fighting with the small flaws of a cheaper machine and increase your vocabulary with new words
on a regular basis.

 

[Don C Davis]

Roger, thank you for that input, I took a look just now at the G0800 and it is indeed a nice looking product--it is out of stock which usually means a minimum of a 4-6 month wait with Grizzly...having said that it looks like a great lathe, I dislike the banjo post clamp, and the headstock handwheel is an issue for me on this one as it is with the Laguna. I looked considering that I might could cancel my order on the Laguna, but it just didn't 'un-decide' me on the Laguna.

As I may have stated already I am hopeful that this is my best/last lathe purchase, but NSN is my belief, so therefore I try to Never say Never!

 

[Roger Chandler]

Don, the G0800 does indeed have a handwheel! I ordered mine on January 13th and it was backordered, and shipped on Feb. 6th. The banjo post clamp - not sure what your objection is there, as it is pretty much the same design as on the Powermatics, only this banjo is much heavier than the 3520b banjo and bigger too. It locks down solid.
I'm not trying to talk you into the G0800, but did not want you to not have factual information, some of which you can't get from pics online, as they don't show all the angles. This one is a beast for sure, and pics alone make it hard to get a sense of its overall size, build and quality.

 

[Don C Davis]

Roger, thanks for that follow up post--I found another picture and noticed that The G0800 does have a small handwheel. That's also great that they shipped it that quick to you. I am gonna smoke it over, I think I would have to contact the dealer first thing Monday morning if it was even possible to cancel my order...it really brings me to think how does the G0800 compare to the 24-36 and the PM 3520 C. The G0800 is also around 500-600 higher than the Laguna, comparing delivered price to delivered price. Quick question for you Roger, how does the G0800 spindle lock work? And when you say the banjo clamps the tool rest post the same as the PM, does it have the same notched bushing as the PM? I appreciate the help brother.

 

[Roger Chandler]

I used a 3520b to do a demo this morning. It has a ratchet handle to tighten down through a threaded hole in the neck of the banjo that bottoms out against the post of the toolrest. That is the same for the G0800, only the banjo on the G0800 is beefier, and is machined to more exacting tolerances around the post. Mine is really exacting in the machining.
The spindle lock is a spring loaded lever inside a metal sleeve which goes through the headstock casting, above and to the front of the handwheel. The point of the spindle lock inserts itself into one of the indexing holes in the large spindle pulley.

 

[Don C Davis]

Roger thanks for that quick feedback. On the 3520 C there is a notched bushing (brass it appears) that tightens down and pinches the tool post where it won't bottom out on the tool rest post and therefore won't mar the post. I like the sound of that spindle lock, that is one thing I do not like about the Laguna--in fact I've already figured out a way to make a switch to hold the spring loaded spindle lock button down on it I also like the color on the Laguna and the G0800, and hate the puke gold of PM stuff-(silly factor) and I'm really torn now about what to do--I am going to talk to my man at Packard as soon as I can get him Monday morning, and I really value his opinion, although they don't sell the Grizz, but I'll just hold his opinion out on the G0800.... Thanks again to everyone for their input.

 

[Roger Chandler]

Just be aware of this Don. A number of years ago, the Grizzly line of lathes were not what we consider state of the art. That has all changed now, but some turners still think of them in that former light! I have turned on a Robust American Beauty more than once, and a Serious SL2542, [ awesome machine] as well as 11 different 3520b's, numerous Jet 1642 evs models, a bunch of midi's [I have a Delta 46-460 in my shop] and also own a 3 hp Grizzly 22/42 G0766, which is every bit a good in performance as a 3520b in my opinion, but not quite as nice on some aesthetics like that bushing you mention. This G0800 is as nice as any lathe I have turned on, and the machining is just very high quality, and it is probably the last lathe I may ever want...at least that is my current feeling. I also have on order the 20" bed extension which will allow me to turn off the end with the headstock moved, and will give me 40" of swing.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Does anyone have an opinion on the 3520B series Powermatic, I found one on Ebay located in Lynwood California?
What would be a fair price for this High School Shop used piece of equipment?

 

[hockenbery]

Does anyone have an opinion on the 3520B series Powermatic, I found one on Ebay located in Lynwood California?
What would be a fair price for this High School Shop used piece of equipment?

Probably the most popular lathe in the US. It is a good lathe. I like turning on them for demonstrations. Lots of happy owners. ( Personal preference would keep me from owning one because banjo, tailstock and headstock design are much better on the lathes )

Price is a tough question. New price for that lathe was anywhere from $1800 to over $3500 depending on where and when it was bought. Price kept going up on the machine after it was introduced and some sellers got special prices from powermatic that they passed on to customers.
Depending on condition used powermatics here generally sell from $800 to $2500 often they are bundeled with chucks and tools and the exact price of the lathe is hard to pinpoint

I bought a lot of high school equipment when shops were phased out of the public schools in Anne arundel county Maryland. We were able to view the equipment before bidding. Some was pristine some was beat up.
One lathe we bought had hand painted lettering identifying its major parts.

 

[Dean Center]

As Al said, it's possible a school lathe has been nearly unused and it's also possible that it's been misused persistently. In my experience with our 6 well used high school lathes, shop students do things you wouldn't do yourself--cranking on the handwheel while the quill lock is engaged, for example. Sometimes the lathes don't get maintenance, and might have worn out chisels on the drive center or rusted up screws on the chuck. There could also be hidden damage from pounding on the bed ways or against the bearings. Most of these things are fixable. I would say out here in the west prices are a little higher than they apparently are in Florida. I haven't looked recently, but $3000 depending on condition and accessories is more typical.

 

[Ronald Plumley]

I have to wholeheartedly agree with Dean on the abuse equipment takes in high school shop classes. Last year our club moved its normal meeting space to the local high school shop class and I've already had to make repairs when students, who admittedly were trying to be helpful, managed to jam the quill up fairly tightly in the fully-retracted position and ended up breaking the cast iron wheel of the club's 3520A.

I've also seen the Powermatic drill press they have where, somehow, they've managed to hork up the adjustable table's rack and pinion to the point where the rack (the vertical toothed metal bar held in place on the main column of the press) was bent up and shaped like a question mark. I certainly don't expect that any of it was malicious. It just falls into the catagory of "when you have lots of newbie hands using your tools, stuff is gonna happen".

I would think that, if possible, a visual inspection of the 3520B would definitely be warranted.

 

[odie]

It just falls into the catagory of "when you have lots of newbie hands using your tools, stuff is gonna happen".

I would think that, if possible, a visual inspection of the 3520B would definitely be warranted.

Yes, I'd have a hard time making a purchase of school equipment, without taking a look......as was said, some of this equipment has had very little use, but some has been abused to the point where there would be some regrets.

I also have on order the 20" bed extension which will allow me to turn off the end with the headstock moved, and will give me 40" of swing.

Roger......Why is it necessary to have a 20" extension to turn off the end of the bedways? Can't turning off the end be done without the extension? As I understand it, the headstock is more stable over the legs, than to be extended outward.....?

-----odie

 

[William Rogers]

I like the sound of that spindle lock, that is one thing I do not like about the Laguna--in fact I've already figured out a way to make a switch to hold the spring loaded spindle lock button down on it I also like the color on the Laguna and the G0800, and hate the puke gold of PM stuff-(silly factor) and I'm really torn now about what to do--I am going to talk to my man at Packard as soon as I can get him Monday morning, and I really value his opinion, although they don't sell the Grizz, but I'll just hold his opinion out on the G0800.... Thanks again to everyone for their input.

Spindle lock is easy to do. For my Laguna 18-36 I use a couple go rare earth magnets. I posted this in the tips forum.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Roger......Why is it necessary to have a 20" extension to turn off the end of the bedways? Can't turning off the end be done without the extension? As I understand it, the headstock is more stable over the legs, than to be extend

My guess is that the extension is mounted lower than the lathe bed so that the banjo could be mounted on it rather than using a freestanding toolrest.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Odie You have your answer from Bill. The extension on the PM can be mounted inline and level with the bed or dropped down to allow for turning larger pieces.

 

[Don C Davis]

William Rogers, thanks for sharing those pics of your spindle lock work around. Is yours set up where you just screw the knob in to lock out the spindle?? Looks good man!

 

[William Rogers]

Much easier then screwing the knob in. The knob is fixed, there is a nut each side of the metal strip that fixed the length. The magnets are strong enough to hold the lock button in. I hope that makes sense. Since there are magnets, it stays about any where you put it when not in use.

 

[Roger Chandler]

Odie, this configuration allows the headstock to be over the leg assembly, and also allows one to turn up to 40" in diameter. I plan to turn some accent tables in this configuration, and the lathe will be plenty stable! I don't have a floor model outboard rest, so this comes as a factory designed accessory to this model lathe. Why not take advantage?

Also, if I want, I can mount the extension in line with the bed and have 65+ inches between centers for longer spindle turnings like bed posts, or 2 piece porch posts.

 

[Don C Davis]

William, thanks for that clarification on your spindle lock work around--simple and effective, probably a little better than what I was thinking--a hinge with a bolt through to activate the button and a magnet on the opposite end of the hinge...

 

[odie]

Odie, this configuration allows the headstock to be over the leg assembly, and also allows one to turn up to 40" in diameter. I plan to turn some accent tables in this configuration, and the lathe will be plenty stable! I don't have a floor model outboard rest, so this comes as a factory designed accessory to this model lathe. Why not take advantage?

Also, if I want, I can mount the extension in line with the bed and have 65+ inches between centers for longer spindle turnings like bed posts, or 2 piece porch posts.

OK, thanks for showing me, Roger.......looks like a lot of effort was put into the engineering.

-----odie-----

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

If you spend 8-10-12 hours a day working at a lathe you want every feature of the machine
to work flawlessly. The extra money spent on the machine will pay for itself over time. Turning
production pieces by hand on a wood lathe efficiently requires such a machine, or you will end
up fighting with the small flaws of a cheaper machine and increase your vocabulary with new words
on a regular basis.

You got that just right Mike...