R&D of New Turning Tool Handle

[peteryu65]

OK Folks, Your talking and we're listening.

Over the years, many tool companies have created, or tried to create, a tool handle that is fundamentally accurate and easy to use. In our humble opinion, no tool company has really achieved that other than Jerry Glaser and his company. Glaser Tool Handles are a pleasure to use and provide (until now, or we think) unsurpassed control and precision. However, such handle comes at a price and is beyond the reach of most hobbyist woodturners out there. So... we decided to create a tool handle that is out there to rival those from Glaser and Kelton and includes some of our innovations and trial and error results. However, no sucessful product currently exists that's made not on customer feedback and critisism (think Microsoft Vista). So, right now, we're asking all the woodturners out there to share with us and all of of our fellows here on AAW what they like about their tool handles and what they wish to see. We would greately appreciate any feedback as we are commited to serving you and can only do so if you can help. Thanks!!!

Peter Yu

 

[MichaelMouse]

I like a round bottom rather than one with sharper edges. Think Henry Taylor over Sorby. I like to palm the guide end a bit, and that's more comfortable. On a longer handle, makes little difference, because I choke up, as do most I've seen.

 

[john lucas]

I've never owned a Glaser style handle so I can't really compare them. I don't like metal handles because my shop is often cold in the winter. I am currently using a couple of the Bigstick tool handles. they are rubber covered and I like that. They are round and roll off the lathe. I like my fluted wooden ones for this reason. The R8 collet is a nice idea but the opening and closing tolerances are tool narrow for some tools, I had to grind down an English gouge shank to make it fit. The overall feel and fit and finish are great. I like being able to easily exchange the collets for different sized tool.
I super adjustable chuck that would fit from about 3/8" to 3/4" would handle all of this but might be too cumbersome and heavy. All of my boring bar tools now have 3/4" insert that I made for them and it's been really nice being able to just loosen the screw on the end of the handle, tap it on the workbench and change cutters no matter which size. I have shafts from 1/2" to 3/4" for different cutters.
Based on this and over 75 tool handles I've made I would like to see a tool that has inserts than can be attached to the tools and then the tool can be quickly exchanged with the handles. Somewhat like the Hosaluk inserts. I prefer my tools to all have their own handles but when I travel it really it makes it nice to just carry one or two handles and switch out tools. I tried using just one tool handle but balance can really be an issue for some tools so I have 2 in different weights. It would be nice to be able to change the weight of the handle or possibly it's balance point.
It should sit on a flat surface and not roll. Fluted surfaces let you feel where the handle is which is nice when your doing blind cuts inside hollow vessels. I think Johannes Michelson is doing the right thing here. I would like to see some markings on the end attached to the tool to indicate the tool position. This is handy for tools like the Hunter tool and some scrapers so you know where the cutter is pointing inside the vessel.
I don't choke up on tools except for very small tools so the overall shape is not a consideration other than how it affects the balance and I guess I do like a good looking tool.

 

[odie]

There really isn't very many handle shapes that I haven't been able to adapt to pretty well........except one brand!

I have a bowl gouge and small scraper from an off-brand manufacturer. I bought them locally, and it's a name I haven't ever heard of before.....the tools themselves are unmarked, and I've long since thrown away the packaging, so I can't name the brand. The tool steel is marked Sheffield England, so I can assume quality there, but THAT HANDLE! It has a very pronounced hour-glass shape to it......doesn't fit my hand that well, but it might work out for the ladies, or those with very small hands.

What do I like? Good question. I'd have to say that a fairly plain shape that has little change in profile from one end to the other. I sometimes hold the tool in different locations along the length......and I'd prefer to not have a different "feel" depending on where my grip is.

otis of cologne

 

[waltben]

What with my arthritis, I prefer a fairly good amount of weight (more than wood, but so much as to make them difficult to move around) and length. Vinyl covers and lead shot help dampen and soften vibration as well. That said, my favorite bowl gouges (5/8") all have wood handles, but long ones. My favorite 3/8" bowl gouge has a Oneway handle that I like a lot. I've several other Oneway and Kelton type handles, but they are too expensive to get enough to re-handle all my tools. The cheaper metal ones don't have enough weight to be better than wood. I picked up a 3/4" Thompson bowl gouge in Richmond along with a Oneway and an adapter. That ended up being a bit too heavy and long to be comfortable, but I can control the gouge while roughing large pieces.

 

[robo hippy]

The Glaser handles are too heavy for me, and I like big heavy tools. They are unbalanced to me. I can't tell that the lead shot in the handle really does anything. I have the Oneway handles, and they are okay, but too light. I use the Kelton handles for coring, and they are okay. I prefer wood handles, and preferably ones I have turned. They just feel better.
robo hippy

 

[peteryu65]

I like a round bottom rather than one with sharper edges. Think Henry Taylor over Sorby. I like to palm the guide end a bit, and that's more comfortable. On a longer handle, makes little difference, because I choke up, as do most I've seen.

Interesting Point.

Now that you mention it, we're thinking about an external connection of some kind (maybe a mortise with a magnet inside so anyone can just turn an external component such as the round end and put a magnet in it and BINGO, there goes your rounded tip. Plus, it's removable so there's more modular flexablility there.Now that you mention it, we're thinking about an external connection of some kind (maybe a mortise with a magnet inside so anyone can just turn an external component such as the round end and put a magnet in it and BINGO, there goes your rounded tip. Plus, it's removable so there's more modular flexablility there.

 

[Richard Baker]

Peter,
Who is the "we" to whom you refer?

 

[peteryu65]

Peter,
Who is the "we" to whom you refer?

Actually, the "we" is still kind of an I as the project is still in it's early stages but "we" just seemed more natural to type. My bad. But then hey, someday, this will become a "we" project. At least I hope.

 

[Malcolm Smith]

There is no one design that will suit everyone. I use mostly Glaser tools and like the handles but I don't turn all day. I can see where anyone who does might tire from the weight. Incidentally, the Glaser tools are no longer made. He retired. Too bad, they are exceptional tools.

There is logic to having the handles easily replaceable for the above reason.

Malcolm Smith

 

[hughie]

my dimes worth

I pretty well make all my own handles, each and every one is different,[shape ]deliberately different as a means of identifying them quickly on the rack.

The length varies as well as to what the tool is used for ie my vase tools will have a long hefty handle to maintain control when fully extended on a deep vase. Where as detail gouge would be short and light.

I am not overly fond of the matching set of elegant tool handles, rather make them to suit the requirements and get the elegance and beauty into my turning.

 

[GeorgeH]

I make my own handles and I use the Sorby tool handles as a model, with some minor changes. I don't like those weighted handles and I find the straight handle (Glaser and others) feels somewhat unnatural in my hand.

 

[GLENN ROBERTS]

While we are talking about the possibility of a 'great' handle, and various people have mentioned Kelton,I can mention that hopefully in the not too distance future, Kelton are intending to release their Ulimate handle Mark 2.

There will never be a handle that suits everyone, however I believe that the new KELTON unit, (which will be more than just a singular idea) will be of interest to many. I have been trialing them for some time and they work for me.
Maybe email KELTON to see how long before they appear on their new site?

 

[Richard Baker]

Did anyone mention length of the handle? Might be necessary to specify handles for a particular tool, say 1/2" or 5/8" bowl gouges.

 

[peteryu65]

Well my friends, I think all of your probelms could be potentially answered by a simple fact. We're (I right now) not out there to compete with those large companies like Kelton and Oneway. Instead, we were thknking custom handles that could be tailored to meet individual needs. For example, a turner that doesn't like metal and rubber grips but likes slightly weighted handle but is rather short and wants a short handle would be rather dissapointed at the market right now due to the fact that there aren't very many handles that fit his or her configuration. Then, of course, there are people out there that want some sort of hollowing tool handle but doesn't want to make his or her own and finds the ones on the market to be too bulky for his or her work might have a big issue on their hands. Right now, we aren't trying to reinvent the wheel. It's more like we're trying to invent a flying car based 100% on customer feedback.

 

[Wyatt Holm]

I like the shape and feel of Hamlet handles, my Hamlet bowl gouge got a broken handle, so I used my Kelton handle for awhile until I make a new one. From now on I will probably buy unhandled, and then build a handle, so I can have a nice tool and a handle that fits my hand perfectly.
P.S.
Could anyone tell me if it makes much difference what kind of wood you make your handles from?
I bought a Bubinga blank from csusa, worked well. I just wanted to know the properties of different woods for making your handles.

 

[Greg_Haugen]

There's a feature that I look for in a handle that isn't an option often. "Tool-less tool removal." Hosaluk's, Bosch's, Oneway's, all need a wrench to remove the tool. For some applications this isn't a big deal. You put in a bowl gouge, tighten it and forget it. For some applications though, mainly hollowing, this can be a pain. There are two handles that are common that allows for tool-less tool change, Rolly Munro's and Kelton's Ultimate handles. I've recently gotten a Kelton Ultimate handle and can honestly say I love it!! I can use all three hollowing tools, hollow a complete vessel, and never once need to pick up an allen wrench. I've never used a Munro handle, but I've used a homemade version with a shop made insert. Again, it's nice to change over tools without finding the allenwrench. Even a little "nit-pick" is that the Kelton Ultimat handle, since it uses "collets", doesn't even leave the usually marring from the set screws of all the other handles.

Another feature is being able to adjust the tool length. By being able to shorten or lengthen the tool shaft, a little more reach can be achieved or taken away to dampen vibration. It's nice to have the handle "heavy" enough so it doesn't need to be filled to the top with shot but have a deep enough bore to adjust the tool.

That's my 2 cents for what I'd look for in a handle.

 

[john lucas]

I have been using the Bigstick handles and like them. You can't adjust the tool length but no tools are required to remove or install the blades. I have designed a wooden handle around the R8 collet design and will build it sometime this week to see if it works. I don't see why it won't.
http://www.bigsticktools.com/

 

[BNeddow]

I turn all day -- at least a six-hour day. I was having a serious problem with cramps in my hands. I got a handle from John Pilgrim in British Columbia that was 1 3/4 inches in diameter rather than 1 1/4 (which seems to be a common size). The cramps went away. Since then, I have bought three more of his handles (made from aluminum with a plastic grip) and made some of my own out of Cocobolo with a brass ferrule. No more cramps. John originally made his handles to help a friend with arthritis, and they were successful at that, too.

 

[Dave Roller]

For bowl gouges and almost all spindle tools, I prefer "Sorby-type" handles--I've learned to tell by feel just how far up on the handel my hand is and how to adjust for balance ( in the case of scrapers) and for fine cuts.

 

[Wyatt Holm]

For bowl gouges and almost all spindle tools, I prefer "Sorby-type" handles--I've learned to tell by feel just how far up on the handel my hand is and how to adjust for balance ( in the case of scrapers) and for fine cuts.

Yeah, I agree. I shaped my handles similar to Hamlet, I haven't paid much attention but I do tell where my hand is by the feel of the handle.

 

[Bill Boehme]

P.S.
Could anyone tell me if it makes much difference what kind of wood you make your handles from?

Well, I would immediately rule out balsa and black palm.

 

[GLENN ROBERTS]

I've recently gotten a Kelton Ultimate handle and can honestly say I love it!! I can use all three hollowing tools, hollow a complete vessel, and never once need to pick up an allen wrench.
Another feature is being able to adjust the tool length. That's my 2 cents for what I'd look for in a handle.

Greg, I agree with your comments entirely. So keep your eyes peeled for the mark 2 version. I think you will be very surprised, if it appears on the market, like the unit I have been using.
Glenn

 

[rsser]

What are the positives about weighted handles?

A contrary approach is found in the Munro hollower handle, which is unweighted aluminium. Munro argues that it provides better feel than a heavy handle.

 

[Brian Hahn]

What about handle diameter?

I make my own handles because all of the standard handles (tool maker's and aftermarket) are too small for my hands. I need handle that is at least 1 3/4" in diameter.

 

[Ken Grunke]

Brian, I like big handles also, even though my hands are on the small side. Especially on any tool that gets turned on it's own axis a lot, like a skew--it just feels better, and I have better control of the cut with less effort.

 

[peteryu65]

OK Folks,
Here's a list of what we think is going to be on our product

-Different diameters for different users (Probably 1 3/8" and 1 3/4" first, maybe 2" if our CNC system can handle it.
-Options with rubber grips running the entire lengths, the crucial parts, etc
-Color coding (actually, we have something better than that!)
-Some sort of way to fine tune balence
-Customizable weight for different preferences
-Customizable lengths (by the inch)
-Customizable species for the wooden accents
-Customizable depth the tool is inserted in

So, that's basically all I can think of right how. I'm pretty sure I'm missing a bunch of stuff you would want so keep talkin' folks.

Oh yeah, for those of you who want quick release adapters, we heard ya but all I can say is that it's probably going to be pretty hard to incorperate that into some of our other stuff. Maybe a seperate model for traveling that has a quick-change device.

 

[odie]

What are the positives about weighted handles?

A contrary approach is found in the Munro hollower handle, which is unweighted aluminium. Munro argues that it provides better feel than a heavy handle.

rsser.......Although I don't have any "weighted" handles, I do have some that are heavier than others. The heavier handles seem to have a smoother transition in motion. Depending on the application, I'd think that would be very beneficial to some (or most) woodturners in general......

Also, someone mentioned "shot filled" handles earlier. This seems pretty useless to me.....but, it's new, different and unique. In that respect, regardless of whether it works, or not, there is potential for an entrepreneur to make some bucks with it! From my point of view......I've been using shot filled "dead blow" hammers for years, and although they are terrific for that purpose, it does require quite a shock to realize the benefits. I just can't imagine it being useful for woodturning......unless one has a lot of catches! If I'm wrong about this, tell me where I err.

otis of cologne

 

[John King]

Glaser Tools

Malcom - You state that "...the Glaser tools are no longer made." I believe this is not correct.

It is true that Jerry Glaser no longer manufactures and sells Glaser tools. In 2005 Glaser Engineering was acquired by CryoSteel Engineering & Technology. Glaser tools are now manufactured and distributed by Glaser Hitec - a wholly owned subsidiary of CryoSteel.

The proprietary steel treatment methods developed by Jerry Glaser are used by Glaser Hitec; therefore, the products produced by Glaser Hitec are identical in metallurgical properties to those produced by Jerry Glaser.

So, while it is true that products manufactured by Jerry Glaser are no longer made, his proprietary steel treatment methods are used by Glaser Hitec to manufacture products of equal quality.

 

[Gordon Seto]

Malcom - You state that "...the Glaser tools are no longer made." I believe this is not correct.

It is true that Jerry Glaser no longer manufactures and sells Glaser tools. In 2005 Glaser Engineering was acquired by CryoSteel Engineering & Technology. Glaser tools are now manufactured and distributed by Glaser Hitec - a wholly owned subsidiary of CryoSteel.

The proprietary steel treatment methods developed by Jerry Glaser are used by Glaser Hitec; therefore, the products produced by Glaser Hitec are identical in metallurgical properties to those produced by Jerry Glaser.

So, while it is true that products manufactured by Jerry Glaser are no longer made, his proprietary steel treatment methods are used by Glaser Hitec to manufacture products of equal quality.

No doubt Jerry Glaser was the pioneer in this area. I could be wrong; I don't think this was his proprietary steel treatment method. He was the first to use the high vanadium tool steel from Crucible and heat treating according to their specifications, to make turning tools.
http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/ds10Vv7b.pdf

 

[Steve Worcester]

Also, someone mentioned "shot filled" handles earlier. This seems pretty useless to me.....but, it's new, different and unique. In that respect, regardless of whether it works, or not, there is potential for an entrepreneur to make some bucks with it!
otis of cologne

Actually it has been around for a number of years. The handles don't need to be full either The high density and shock absorbency of the shot helps dissipate the vibration that resonates down the tip through the handle. I believe Jerry Glaser was first to do this.

 

[GLENN ROBERTS]

one aspect of this discussion that interests me, is the notion of 'balance'. You often hear people refer to the 'balance' of a tool/handle when they pick it up.
If it is a hammer then sure the balance is important. But given that we rest the tool on a tool rest ( sure hope so) the balance of the handle/tool will altered ( and alter as its moved out over the rest)

So, here is the question, why is so-called 'balance' such an issue?

I would like to hear your views
Glenn

 

[Malcolm Smith]

Malcom - You state that "...the Glaser tools are no longer made." I believe this is not correct.

It is true that Jerry Glaser no longer manufactures and sells Glaser tools. In 2005 Glaser Engineering was acquired by CryoSteel Engineering & Technology. Glaser tools are now manufactured and distributed by Glaser Hitec - a wholly owned subsidiary of CryoSteel.

The proprietary steel treatment methods developed by Jerry Glaser are used by Glaser Hitec; therefore, the products produced by Glaser Hitec are identical in metallurgical properties to those produced by Jerry Glaser.

So, while it is true that products manufactured by Jerry Glaser are no longer made, his proprietary steel treatment methods are used by Glaser Hitec to manufacture products of equal quality.

I am very happy to stand corrected,

Malcolm Smith.

 

[Mark Wollschlager]

one aspect of this discussion that interests me, is the notion of 'balance'. You often hear people refer to the 'balance' of a tool/handle when they pick it up.
If it is a hammer then sure the balance is important. But given that we rest the tool on a tool rest ( sure hope so) the balance of the handle/tool will altered ( and alter as its moved out over the rest)

So, here is the question, why is so-called 'balance' such an issue?

I would like to hear your views
Glenn

Well, from my point of view.
For bowl gouges, and 1/2" and greater spindle, and hand held hollowing tools I like a heavier handle.
I like a tool that has weight in the handle that helps to maintain the tool handle in my hand.
Too light of a handle seems to make me hold the tool in a 'less relaxed' fashion.
The tool handle seems to move more in reaction to the cutting action which makes me compensate for the movement.
I prefer the dampening that a heavier tool handle provides.
For smaller tools a lighter handle seems to allow for more delicate cuts and finer control.
As far a shot filled vs. just heavy, it depends.
I have several Trent Bosch handles with lead shot and love them.
The old style Glaser handles are very nice, but can be cold in the winter.
I have used lacrosse stick wrap to add a layer of insulation.


just my $.02

Mark.

 

[Doug Thompson]

one aspect of this discussion that interests me, is the notion of 'balance'. You often hear people refer to the 'balance' of a tool/handle when they pick it up.
If it is a hammer then sure the balance is important. But given that we rest the tool on a tool rest ( sure hope so) the balance of the handle/tool will altered ( and alter as its moved out over the rest)

So, here is the question, why is so-called 'balance' such an issue?

I would like to hear your views
Glenn

IMO - the tool should be balanced when your cutting wood. This spring you'll see my version of how it should be done...

 

[Bill Blasic]

Doug,
I for one cannot wait till you do this, Good Luck.

 

[Marc Ruby]

IMO - the tool should be balanced when your cutting wood. This spring you'll see my version of how it should be done...

Sign me up!

Marc

 

[Doug Thompson]

Doug,
I for one cannot wait till you do this, Good Luck.

Marc, thanks it will be based off my personal handles with a more refined look.

Bill, the club will be the first people to see the prototypes. Due to the expense handles for a bowl gouge will be first then later a spindle gouge.

 

[peteryu65]

Ok,
I've been doing some research on the metal part of the handle. For the heavier handles, aluminum seems to be fine. However, for some of the lightweight handles, aluminum may be a little too heavy. So, we were just wondering how many of you would buy a lightweight handle that has some plastic in it. Is plastic in our lightweight models a good idea? Or should we just not be thinking about such idea? (this is for the lightweight handles ONLY!) Thanks

 

[GLENN ROBERTS]

I can't imagine aluminium being too heavy, however I have made fibreglass handles. They have some advantages, but not necessarily that much lighter, given that from a manufacturing point of view, if they are too thin and light and break, then people wont be happy. So mine are nice and strong, albeit not much lighter.
Garden tool handles are going toward fibreglass, so its not that much of a leap, but a lot of turners still seem to like the idea of wooden handles.