Second Chuck Suggestions

[Stan Messick]

I have had a PSI Barracuda 2 chuck, my first, for several years. I am now looking into purchasing a second chuck and would like suggestions here.

Would another PSI chuck use interchangeable jaws? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

depends on ur lathe

I only have my 1st chuck....stronghold oneway....i wish my investments would have gone up in value as good turning stuff....it came with #3 jaws and I added spigot jaws....also added jumbo jaws but I reverse chuck for bottom so rarely use the jumbo....

 

[Bill Boehme]

Your choice of chuck should primarily be based on what you turn and not what lathe you own. It also would be sensible to stay with the brand you currently are using if you are happy with it.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Why are you adding a 2nd chuck, another body to reduce jaw changes, want a bigger one for bigger work, etc?

 

[Stan Messick]

Thanks for your response. I’ve found that occasionally I need to set aside something I’m turning to work on something else and I thought having another chuck would be even better because then I would just take the chuck off with the workpiece in it and have it be true when I put the chuck back on. Make sense?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Leaving a work piece mounted in the chuck usually makes it easier to remount and have it run true when you want to start turning again.
That is one of the main reasons additional chucks are useful in acquiring. You might want to get a chuck with a complete set of different sized jaws this will greatly expand the types of items you can quickly turn.

 

[hockenbery]

occasionally I need to set aside something I’m turning to work on something else and I thought having another chuck would be even better because then I would just take the chuck off with the workpiece in it and have it be true when I put the chuck back on. Make sense?

Makes a lot of sense especially for dry wood projects.
I don’t like to interrupt wet wood projects

I like both the vicmarc and ONEWAY chucks.

 

[Stan Messick]

Leaving a work piece mounted in the chuck usually makes it easier to remount and have it run true when you want to start turning again.
That is one of the main reasons additional chucks are useful in acquiring. You might want to get a chuck with a complete set of different sized jaws this will greatly expand the types of items you can quickly turn.

Thank you, you have validated my thinking. I appreciate that.

 

[Doug Freeman]

It makes sense, though I usually unchuck the piece (dry wood-wet wood I finish out). Ive found the real benefit is reducing jaw changes. I have marked my chucks, and then I mark the piece to locate in the jaws, and dont have much issue re-chucking.

If you have a full size lathe look at the Barracuda 4, larger and heavier than the Barracuda2. I have both, very pleased with them, and the large chuck is great for big projects.

 

[Stan Messick]

It makes sense, though I usually unchuck the piece (dry wood-wet wood I finish out). Ive found the real benefit is reducing jaw changes. I have marked my chucks, and then I mark the piece to locate in the jaws, and dont have much issue re-chucking.

If you have a full size lathe look at the Barracuda 4, larger and heavier than the Barracuda2. I have both, very pleased with them, and the large chuck is great for big projects.

Thank you, Doug, I think you just sold a Barracuda 4.

 

[Stan Messick]

Thank you, Doug, I think you just sold a Barracuda 4.

Addenda: I do have a full size lathe and also a question: is there any interchangeability between the Barracuda 2 and 4?

 

[William Rogers]

Stan, I’ve owned way too many chucks. I have the Barracuda 2 and still use it sometimes. I had the Barracuda 4, but I did not like the key used to tighten it. It tends to ride up and out of engagement. My Barracuda 2 is older and has a square drive. I had Supernova 2 chucks, but have sold them. I still have one Record SC4 chuck with pin jaws. I have the “Hurricane HTC 125 that is a larger chuck and really like that for larger turnings. It has a square drive and dovetail jaws vs serrated jaws that I prefer for larger turnings. I use this chuck a lot. I also have the Axminister SK100 and the SK114 chucks. These chucks are my favorites. They are direct thread and stainless steel. The jaws are interchangeable between these chucks. The SK 100 has a “drill chuck” type key I was concerned about and the SK 114 has a square drive. I have never owned a Vicmarc or One Way chucks and those chucks come highly recommended by owners. The Easywood chuck has the quick jaw change method. Not sure why you would want jaw interchangeability between the Barracuda chucks as they each come with multiple jaw sets. I guess for a recommendation my first choice is the Axminster chucks. I use these chucks a lot and I have several sets of speciality jaws that are interchangeable between chucks. The Hurricane chucks are my second recommendation. I only have the jaw set that came with the chuck, but don’t have any need to have additional jaws for this chuck. Changing jaws with the screws are one of the reasons I sold my Nova chucks.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Addenda: I do have a full size lathe and also a question: is there any interchangeability between the Barracuda 2 and 4?

No the jaws are not interchangeable. The 4 comes with 4? Jaw sets and a worm screw. Look up their alligator jaws for the 2 if wanting more jaw sets.

 

[Stan Messick]

The response to my query has been overwhelming and I very much appreciate it.

As I read this one two questions emerge:1. How are jaws changed without an Allen wrench? and 2. What is the advantage to turning green wood? Is it letting it dry in roughed out form for stability?

Thank you.

Stan, I’ve owned way too many chucks. I have the Barracuda 2 and still use it sometimes. I had the Barracuda 4, but I did not like the key used to tighten it. It tends to ride up and out of engagement. My Barracuda 2 is older and has a square drive. I had Supernova 2 chucks, but have sold them. I still have one Record SC4 chuck with pin jaws. I have the “Hurricane HTC 125 that is a larger chuck and really like that for larger turnings. It has a square drive and dovetail jaws vs serrated jaws that I prefer for larger turnings. I use this chuck a lot. I also have the Axminister SK100 and the SK114 chucks. These chucks are my favorites. They are direct thread and stainless steel. The jaws are interchangeable between these chucks. The SK 100 has a “drill chuck” type key I was concerned about and the SK 114 has a square drive. I have never owned a Vicmarc or One Way chucks and those chucks come highly recommended by owners. The Easywood chuck has the quick jaw change method. Not sure why you would want jaw interchangeability between the Barracuda chucks as they each come with multiple jaw sets. I guess for a recommendation my first choice is the Axminster chucks. I use these chucks a lot and I have several sets of speciality jaws that are interchangeable between chucks. The Hurricane chucks are my second recommendation. I only have the jaw set that came with the chuck, but don’t have any need to have additional jaws for this chuck. Changing jaws with the screws are one of the reasons I sold my Nova chucks.

 

[hockenbery]

What is the advantage to turning green wood? Is it letting it dry in roughed out form for stability?

Green wood cuts easier and makes very little dust. Most bowls and hollow forms are turned from green wood.

1. Many objects such as hollow forms, natural edge bowls,etc. Are usually turned once to finished thickness, dried, sanded and finished. These are usually dry within a few days.

2. Most functional bowls are turned twice. The rough bowl’s is turned with a thick wall so that a round bowl can be found in the warped dried bowl. This has the advantage of doing most of the wood removal fun to turn wet wood
And the hard turning if the dried wood is just removing enough to make it round.
Also it is I easy to air dry a nicely shaped bowl 12” D x 6”H and 1.25” wall thickness in 6-12 months.
A 6” thick piece of wood is nearly impossible to dry crack free and would take about 6 years.

I started a thread a while back on turning green wood.Includes videos from a demo I do where turn a wet wood bowl for drying and then mount and finish turn a dried bowl. Also there is a little slide show I run through at the beginning.
http://www.aawforum.org/community/index.php?threads/working-with-green-wood.11626/

 

[William Rogers]

As I read this one two questions emerge:1. How are jaws changed without an Allen wrench?

I don’t have the Eastwood chuck, however you just insert a pin to remove and install jaws. Probably the fastest way for a chuck. Should be plenty of YouTube videos on this chuck. With my Axminister chucks you buy extra jaw slides and just crank one set out and install another set. The Axminister chucks do not have a set pin as some chucks do, however I’m aware and you really have to extend them quite a bit. The second picture shows the jaws extended, but still engaged.

 

[Larry Parker]

I have bought 3 of the same chucks so I can use jaw sets I already have. Maybe that’s the wrong thinking on this but it works well for me.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I was not happy with the Barracuda as it had to be tightened regularly during turning. I then went to Super Nova 2 and have 4 now and would like one more. I just change chucks instead of jaws. Also I can get a SN2 for between 99 and 129 , however then will need an insert. Oh and all jaws are interchangable for them.

 

[Breck Whitworth]

I basically only use vic marc 120's now I have used all the basic ones over the years but the vic marc are so much better than anything else I've used that ended it for me. One has 5" jaws the other 2 have reg jaws. even though I still have some of the others I never use them unless it is for specialty projects.

 

[Lars Hansen]

One point where I don't compromise is the chuck. The part that keeps an object in place instead of hurling it my way is NOT the place where I look for a cheap solution.
Three brands lead the pack: Vicmarc, Oneway and Nova. Gears are well made, precise and last forever. Axminster's top models come close.
The Barracudas I've met have all been on a scale from fairly ok to bad and no better than other far eastern copies of the top brands. Sloppy gears that wear out.
Save your money, buy one top class chuck and never regret. Buying the same brand as your woodturning buddy or the guys in your local club opens a possibility of borrowing rarely used jaws from each other.
I tried the Easy and Nova chuck with quick change jaws. Smart feature, but I wouldn't pay one buck more to get it.
Just my 0.02€ on the subject.
Lars

 

[Charlie Knighton]

I do not know if this has happened to others but after completing turning for the day....if I do not take the jaws off....invariable after a couple days the screws are cemented .....have removed the screws but with more time & effort & sweat especially turning green wood than the 2 minutes to reapply the jaws

 

[Richard Coers]

I use antiseeze compound on the bolts, not trouble removing, ever!

 

[Charlie Knighton]

If u have been using it for 10 years....must work....tks for suggestion

 

[RichColvin]

I basically only use vic marc 120's now I have used all the basic ones over the years but the vic marc are so much better than anything else I've used that ended it for me. One has 5" jaws the other 2 have reg jaws. even though I still have some of the others I never use them unless it is for specialty projects.

I upgraded to a Vicmarc 120 from a SuperNova. The Vicmarc is excellent & I really enjoy using it.

 

[Dean Center]

I upgraded to a Vicmarc 120 from a SuperNova. The Vicmarc is excellent & I really enjoy using it.

Rich, can you elaborate on the specific differences between the two and what you find better about the Vicmarc?

 

[Bill Blasic]

I have and use 5 brands of chucks. Nova, Vicmarc, Oneway, Axminster and Bulldog chucks. What do these chucks have in common? All five brands when used properly do their job 100%, that is when the wood is prepared properly the chucks function without problems. When the wood is properly formed not one of these chucks do a better job than the others. What are the differences - Price, size, operation, jaw sizes and perception that one is better than the other. I do not pick a chuck from the cupboard because of brand I choose as to what jaws are on the chuck I need to use. Choose what you can afford or like but you won't convince me that one is better than the other.

 

[Roger Chandler]

I own 4 Supernova 2 chucks, one original SuperNova, and 4 Hurricane chucks. I ‘ve had to get new inserts for a couple of the Novas, and on one of the Nova’s I had to true up the bowl jaws. I’ve seen a lot of inconsistencies with the Nova’s which was the first brand I started with back in 2006. I’ve since moved to the Hurricanes...a HTC 125, and 3 HTC-100’s...4 of them in total, and all of them have run true, and I don’t have to re-tighten unless I leave a piece on the lathe for a few days and get some shrinkage in the tennon from drying. Sometimes I will turn a piece, and it might be a couple days before I can get to the sanding.

I’ve been thinking for a while about getting both a Vicmarc 120 and a Vicmarc 150. I know they are a bit expensive, but I’ve never read on the forums about one not running true, or anyone being dissastisfied.....there might have been someone, but if there were, I did not read or hear about it, so I do hear a lot of positive comments on the quality of Vicmarcs.

I’ve heard LOTS of complaints about the Barracuda’s from PSI. One of our local clubs bought 4 of them for the lathes we teach on.....most of them have discernable wobble, and the jaws do not always run true on them either.

Most everyone seems to like the Oneway Strongholds, and Talons, but the Vicmarc keys and the Hurricane keys are much easier to use, and many prefer a dovetail jaw to the serrated jaw that comes with the Oneways. I don’t own one, but have used a couple in demos over the years, and found them to be perfectly adequate. Bottom line, I don’t think one will go wrong with the Oneway’s, the Vicmarcs, Hurricanes.....and on the Nova’s......if you get a good one, perfect, but there has been too much inconsistency since they moved manufacturing to China.....I think from run to run, especially if there has been a couple of years between runs, then the chance of inconsistency is greater.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Imagine turning hollow forms without an adjustable chuck, Russians, Chinese and Japanese turn without one every day. Most people use what they have available to them and adapt the process to work with what they have. If you can afford to purchase top of the line equipment do so it will last a life time and then some, you can always turn a few pieces and sell them and save up your shekels to purchase the tools you need to build your tool collection. A standard face plate has been used for thousands of years to turn just about every type of turned item you can imagine. With the use of modern adhesives or screws you can quickly mount a wood blank to a waste block or face plate and be turning within the hour. If you can get a wood blank balanced between centers you can turn fairly good sized pieces without a face plate or adjustable chuck.

 

[William Rogers]

All five brands when used properly do their job 100%

Bill, that is like saying I have 5 different brands of cars and they all get me to the store and back. There are differences. I used the SuperNova chucks for two years and they do a good job, however I was never satisfied with the runout of these chucks. I bought two Record SC4 chucks and they were better. I sold the SuperNovas and bought two Axminister. Very happy with these chucks. Should have only bought one as changing the jaws is simple and fast. The Axminster chucks are direct thread and have almost no runout. The other chuck I use is a Hurricane HTC 125. This chuck has a taper insert and also runs very true. Vicmarc and One Way chucks are highly regarded, however I will stick with my Hurricane and Axminister. I have one Record left I tried to sell, but no takers. It has pin jaws on it and for that purpose it works fine.

 

[RichColvin]

Rich, can you elaborate on the specific differences between the two and what you find better about the Vicmarc?

When I started turning, I was using a Delta midi lathe. I purchased a Nova Compact chuck soon after. It worked acceptably (especially for the skills I had at the time), but the dual lever approach was really a pain.

So, I purchased a SuperNova 2. The thinking was that I could use the same jaws and that was a good thing. It is a good chuck, but not great. The biggest complaint I had is that it tightens backwards (not righty tighty, lefty loosey).

20 years later, I moved up to a PowerMatic 3520, and wanted to get a bigger and stouter chuck for turning bigger pieces. At the AAW conference I looked at the Nova Titan, the Vicmarc 120 & 150, and others. I went with the Vicmarc 120 for these reasons :

1. It tightens in the right direction.
2. It opens further (SuperNova2 is only 20 mm; Titan is 24 mm; Vicmarc is 54 mm). This gives more options before I have to invest in a bunch of jaws.
3. The Vicmarc turns smoothly and solidly. It just feels better made. More rugged.
4. It seems like the higher volume turners who aren’t sponsored by a manufacturer choose the Vicmarc. There must be a reason.
5. The Vicmarc 150 is very expensive and I didn’t need all that mass. Also, some of the smaller jaws won’t fit on it.

I still use the SuperNova 2 as it has some jaws that are occasionally needed and I don’t want to get for the Vicmarc (e.g., pen drilling jaws).

BEST PRACTICE NOTE: The Vicmarc is heavier. So I took a lesson from metal lathe users and made an MDF platform to set on the bed when changing the chuck. It is about 8” wide and 15” long. There is a piece on the back which sits between the ways, and helps it stay in place.

This is used just in case the chuck slips from my grip, I won’t damage the bed ways. The chuck isn’t too heavy that it requires man handling or a hoist, but it a good practice and I try to establish good habits when I can. (Learning from Odie and my own manufacturing experiences.)

I hope that helps answer your questions.

Kind regards,
Rich

 

[hockenbery]

i have a Talon, couple of strong holds and a vicmarc 120
For bowls I like dove tail jaws on either the stronghold or the vicmarc.
Both chucks grip equally well but the vicmarc is my favorite because of the hex key.
Easier & quicker to use.

For spindles I like the profile jaws on the ONEWAY chucks.

 

[Bill Blasic]

Some of you must be the unluckiest folks in the world. I have 35 chucks 19 of which are Novas and every one of them runs absolutely true. About 1/3 made in NZ and 2/3 made in China. All these chucks are used on 6 different lathes Powermatic, DVR 3000 and 16" Jet (1 1/4" X 8) and 2 46-460 Deltas and a VM100 (1" X 8). I should clarify as I took 2 extra minis with me to the AAW Symposium in NC, one for a friend and one for my daughter with which I included a G3 Nova so now I have 18 Novas here. And just to let you all know all these chucks were checked out for run out and not one of them approaches .002 run out (all 5 brands).

 

[Mike Johnson]

Wood is moving constantly so I am not sure how the accuracy of a chuck is going to make any difference when remounting or second turning a wood work piece. While removing material form the billet the wood grain tends to relax and the wood is constantly changing moisture content which also causes movement in the wood. When turning metal billets a dial indicator is required to remount the work piece between centers to get it aligned accurately in any type of chuck no matter how true the chuck runs.

 

[hockenbery]

Wood is moving constantly so I am not sure how the accuracy of a chuck is going to make any difference when remounting or second turning a wood work piece.

True Wood does move from warping, tension release, flexing when thin.

A true running chuck is especially helpful for almost any turning I do.

Especially important to me for a second turned bowl. I turn the outside and the tenon on a jamb chuck before mounting in the chuck. With a true running chuck the bowl will run true enough to for hollowing so I don’t have to true the outside once it is in the chuck.

Also if i’m Turning a platter from dry wood. I want it to run dead true when I put it in the chuck.

Also most woods are pretty stable for an hour or so the green wood does not warp enough for me me not to appreciate a true running chuck.

Also when fitting parts for boxes, ornaments, furniture the true running chuck make good fits.

 

[Bill Boehme]

For me the advantage of a true running chuck (not to mention true running spindle) is eliminating vibration. Somebody mentioned recently (maybe in a different thread) that the wood will true up about the spin axis regardless of runout in the chuck and spindle ... and, that is true, but vibration from a wobbling chuck or spindle can make it impossible to get a nice clean finishing cut.

 

[odie]

Some of you must be the unluckiest folks in the world. I have 35 chucks 19 of which are Novas and every one of them runs absolutely true. About 1/3 made in NZ and 2/3 made in China. All these chucks are used on 6 different lathes Powermatic, DVR 3000 and 16" Jet (1 1/4" X 8) and 2 46-460 Deltas and a VM100 (1" X 8). I should clarify as I took 2 extra minis with me to the AAW Symposium in NC, one for a friend and one for my daughter with which I included a G3 Nova so now I have 18 Novas here. And just to let you all know all these chucks were checked out for run out and not one of them approaches .002 run out (all 5 brands).

Wow.....that's the most chucks I've ever heard of!

Why so many?

I can understand a half dozen or so.....but!

-----odie-----

 

[odie]

For me the advantage of a true running chuck (not to mention true running spindle) is eliminating vibration. Somebody mentioned recently (maybe in a different thread) that the wood will true up about the spin axis regardless of runout in the chuck and spindle ... and, that is true, but vibration from a wobbling chuck or spindle can make it impossible to get a nice clean finishing cut.

In theory, I'd agree, Bill.........

However.....There isn't any wood bowls that are perfectly balanced.....even though most improve with finish turning.

I'm not sure where the point of no returns is.....It does seem there would have to be a significant out-of-balance condition for this to be applicable on a realistic basis.

A perfectly balanced chuck, it seems, will not have significant vibration, if it's not exactly square to the spindle (within reasonable limitations)......but, if the balance deficiency is with weight that isn't equally distributed the same around the circumference, in reference to the center of the chuck, as in what usually occurs with an out-of-balance piece of wood; that would produce vibration significantly......and, interfere with a precision cut.

-----odie-----

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

In theory, I'd agree, Bill.........

However.....There isn't any wood bowls that are perfectly balanced.....even though most improve with finish turning.

I'm not sure where the point of no returns is.....It does seem there would have to be a significant out-of-balance condition for this to be applicable on a realistic basis.

A perfectly balanced chuck, it seems, will not have significant vibration, if it's not exactly square to the spindle (within reasonable limitations)......but, if the balance deficiency is with weight that isn't equally distributed the same around the circumference, in reference to the center of the chuck, as in what usually occurs with an out-of-balance piece of wood; that would produce vibration significantly......and, interfere with a precision cut.

-----odie-----

All this talk about precision and Odie even in your comment you said it no piece of wood is perfectly balanced. It will have irregular grain, knots , voids and then we add CA and epoxy which has different densities than wood. Now lets be realistic we are not working with metal and the tolerances for wood just cannot be that tight.

Now in theory once the piece is turned round is that not as far as it goes. If say the chuck or spindle is off by 0.08 and there will be vibration yes. But when the wood is once turned round is it not then balanced? I know this is a worst case scenario but what if?

By the way the trouble That I have seen with chucks and holding wood are more related to the turner him or herself.
1. Poor tenon preparation
2. Weak , soft or cracked wood in tenon
3. Taking too large of a cut and getting catch resulting tenon failure.
4. Improper tool presentation resulting in #3

So all any of us can do is work with what we have and that includes the skills and tools we can afford.

 

[Bill Boehme]

But when the wood is once turned round is it not then balanced?

The answer is no. You might possibly be able to find a speed that allows you to get the wood round, but that won't mass balance the whole spinning load so you're still stuck with the vibration issue. My first lathe had a crooked spindle. The cause of the vibration wasn't obvious until I put a dial indicator on the spindle. And, of course, the further something is from the nose of the spindle, the more the effect is magnified. Putting a heavy chuck on the spindle meant that the chuck's center of mass was offset from and orbiting the spin axis. If I had a large diameter bowl blank then the amount of flutter at the rim was too much to hope for any success in turning it. Once the spindle was replaced there was a world of difference.

 

[Dean Center]

So, I purchased a SuperNova 2. It is a good chuck, but not great. The biggest complaint I had is that it tightens backwards (not righty tighty, lefty loosey).

I went with the Vicmarc 120 for these reasons :

1. It tightens in the right direction.
2. It opens further (SuperNova2 is only 20 mm; Titan is 24 mm; Vicmarc is 54 mm). This gives more options before I have to invest in a bunch of jaws.
3. The Vicmarc turns smoothly and solidly. It just feels better made. More rugged.
4. It seems like the higher volume turners who aren’t sponsored by a manufacturer choose the Vicmarc. There must be a reason.
5. The Vicmarc 150 is very expensive and I didn’t need all that mass. Also, some of the smaller jaws won’t fit on it.

I hope that helps answer your questions.
Rich

Thanks. Very clear and complete.