Shellac recommendations

[Jaramiah Severns]

I love the ease of application and quick dry time of shellac, but have only used canned, off the shelf mixes. Been considering dissolving my own flakes and could use some recommendations.

Any fellow shellac users have a go-to brand or color of flake that they prefer over the canned stuff? Is there a significant benefit from dissolving your own or is it a high effort / low return endeavor?

 

[Wally Crawford]

Watching with interest. I use off the shelf stuff also, but it is getting expensive.

 

[Richard Coers]

I suggest you buy several samples and experiment for yourself. A go to color is a personal preference. Flakes can go bad just like the canned stuff. In some states, denatured alcohol is hard to get and the cheap stuff can have a high water content. Flakes really have no special benefit. Jeff has a strong following. https://homesteadfinishingproducts.com/about-us/

 

[Jaramiah Severns]

I suggest you buy several samples and experiment for yourself. A go to color is a personal preference. Flakes can go bad just like the canned stuff. In some states, denatured alcohol is hard to get and the cheap stuff can have a high water content. Flakes really have no special benefit. Jeff has a strong following. https://homesteadfinishingproducts.com/about-us/

Thanks, Richard! Great advice; I’ll test a few types and see how it goes.

The Homestead site is very cool. The color I’d want to try is sold out (of course), but I’ll keep an eye out for a restock. Lots of other great stuff on that site, too! 👍🏻

 

[Gregg Zank]

I like the finish - mostly use the clear. Always went with the flakes when I started then tried the canned unwaxed and for me found it easier and as good for what I wanted mostly as an initial coat.

I am no expert on the subject - just what I have experienced. I suggest as above - try a few there are many sources of dewed flakes and the cans are easy to find.

 

[Adrian Wilson]

From my days working in museum conservation, shellac has always been a mainstay. I mix my own, and prefer it to the premixed, but premixed is less easy to get here than before, and I mostly use it for carpentry stuff like sealing knots. Reasons to mix your own: you can control the colour by choosing the type of shellac, from button lac to super-blonde dewaxed, and you can control the cut/viscosity. With premixed, you can thin it by adding more alcohol, but to make it thicker, you can only do it by adding flakes, and then you're back to square one. Lee Valley is another source to get started; they sell flakes in four colours (two different products), and 1/4. 1/2 and 1 lb packages. Their denatured alcohol (they call it shellac/lacquer thinner) is just fine. For turning, you don't need much, so you could start small if you want and experiment. I LOVE shellac.

ETA except where water or alcohol are a risk, shellac is very under-rated as a finish. This is my stair; I didn't turn the newel, it is an antique, but newel and handrail are done with shellac I mixed. It's been maybe 13+ years of daily use by a family, and it looks brand new. I still have to get around to giving it a final rub-out. If there were any worn areas (there aren't), repairs to shellac are easy and invisible. The treads are NOT done with shellac, and show a lot more wear.

 

[Jaramiah Severns]

From my days working in museum conservation, shellac has always been a mainstay. I mix my own, and prefer it to the premixed, but premixed is less easy to get here than before, and I mostly use it for carpentry stuff like sealing knots. Reasons to mix your own: you can control the colour by choosing the type of shellac, from button lac to super-blonde dewaxed, and you can control the cut/viscosity. With premixed, you can thin it by adding more alcohol, but to make it thicker, you can only do it by adding flakes, and then you're back to square one. Lee Valley is another source to get started; they sell flakes in four colours (two different products), and 1/4. 1/2 and 1 lb packages. Their denatured alcohol (they call it shellac/lacquer thinner) is just fine. For turning, you don't need much, so you could start small if you want and experiment. I LOVE shellac.

ETA except where water or alcohol are a risk, shellac is very under-rated as a finish. This is my stair; I didn't turn the newel, it is an antique, but newel and handrail are done with shellac I mixed. It's been maybe 13+ years of daily use by a family, and it looks brand new. I still have to get around to giving it a final rub-out. If there were any worn areas (there aren't), repairs to shellac are easy and invisible. The treads are NOT done with shellac, and show a lot more wear.

View attachment 63230

Thanks, Adrian! Great recommendation with Lee Valley. I’ve shopped there before, so will definitely give them a try 👍🏻. That handrail looks immaculate 😍

 

[Michael Anderson]

Like Adrian, I love shellac. I’ve always mixed my own. The ability to control your own cut is great, and if you have the patience to French polish the finish can be stellar. Richard mentioned that flakes can go bad, which might be true at some point, but I’ve been working my way through the same large bag for a few years now and they’re fine. Just be sure to keep a desiccant in the bag. The solution doesn’t have a very long shelf life though, so just make enough for what you need each time. I’d also recommend mixing via weight instead of volume, though that’s not a huge concern.

Woodcraft sells BR&C brand, and that’s all I have experience with. I’ve always used the blonde color, but garnet would be a nice addition to give a little bit of tint. The color change shellac imparts is fairly subtle.

 

[Adrian Wilson]

. Richard mentioned that flakes can go bad, which might be true at some point, but I’ve been working my way through the same large bag for a few years now and they’re fine. Just be sure to keep a desiccant in the bag. The solution doesn’t have a very long shelf life though, so just make enough for what you need each time. I’d also recommend mixing via weight instead of volume, though that’s not a huge concern.

I just did the math, and I was first taught how to use shellac when I was at the museum, thirty-five years ago. In all that time, I have never had a problem with flakes, and only know of one serious problem from flakes. I have seen lots of store-bought shellac go bad, but that's usually pretty obvious. Bear with me here, little story: in my town there was a gentleman named Leo MacNeil, one of the great craftsmen in Canada; he was awarded the Order of Canada for his body of work. Great turner, on two lathes he built himself. He also made 100 pieces of furniture + for Fortress Louisbourg, the local historic site (I have made 3). He passed away this summer, but we were great friends. One of those pieces was a four-drawer commode in curly walnut. I was in his shop when he was finishing it, and I thought 'this shouldn't be sticky at this point; I think there is a problem with the shellac' but I didn't say anything. I should have. But Leo had enormous experience with shellac, so I figured he knew something I didn't. The piece was delivered, but the shellac never did harden, and he ended up going out and stripping it and refinishing it there.

That's it; the only problem I have seen. If I am using some shellac that has been mixed a while, I test before committing, but I haven't bought flakes in quite a while and they are still fine. I have no idea what cut I am using; I just mix some up, and if it is too thin, I add flakes. Too thick, I add alcohol until it is what I want. But if you are starting out, maybe start with a 2lb cut until you get the feel of it.

BTW I don't typically strain it: my wife runs the costume department at that historic site (18th century French fortress), so I have a large supply of very fine linen etc. rags, and I am pretty much always applying the shellac through a piece of that, so that's my filter.

 

[Michael Anderson]

That's it; the only problem I have seen. If I am using some shellac that has been mixed a while, I test before committing, but I haven't bought flakes in quite a while and they are still fine. I have no idea what cut I am using; I just mix some up, and if it is too thin, I add flakes. Too thick, I add alcohol until it is what I want. But if you are starting out, maybe start with a 2lb cut until you get the feel of it.

BTW I don't typically strain it: my wife runs the costume department at that historic site (18th century French fortress), so I have a large supply of very fine linen etc. rags, and I am pretty much always applying the shellac through a piece of that, so that's my filter.

Cool story Adrian, thanks for sharing. I’m sorry about your friend passing away recently. What a hassle to have to full strip and refinish a piece of furniture. I had something similar happen to me, but on a turning. Out of pure laziness, I decided to use a solution that I mixed up a long while prior. It probably started as a 1 lb cut. Didn’t test it, and started rubbing onto a piece of wood. Holy cow, it was so gummy, but I trudged along. Then, I just added some alcohol to thin the solution, and it just made a big mess. Had to strip the piece and start over. Fortunately it was not a piece of furniture, haha.

I’ve never personally had a problem with flakes going bad, but I meant that I suspect if stored improperly anything can happen. I think that’s one of the benefits of buying flakes over pre-mixed, for their long-lastedness.

 

[Roger Wiegand]

I use a lot of shellac, it's the finish of choice for all the organ work I do. I get mine from shellac.net, they carry a full range of colors from button lac to platinum blonde in both regular and dewaxed versions.

One hint is to buzz up the flakes in a coffee grinder so that they dissolve much more quickly-- you do need to stir it fairly often while dissolving, lest you end up with a big lump of chewing gum on the bottom of the jar.

I dissolve flakes in Mohawk shellac reducer rather than the mystery "fuel" from the borg. It is a reliably consistent product to add to those expensive flakes and my unscientific opinion is that the lifetime of dissolved shellac in it is much longer when I use it. I only use a gallon or two a year so it seems like cheap insurance, plus it seems to escape the denatured alcohol restrictions, at least in some states. I save the cheap stuff for rinsing my brush.

A Grammercy shellac brush from Tools for Woodworking was transformational in my shellac experience. Expensive, yes, but puts down a beautiful coat and holds an astonishing amount of finish. Mine is used only for shellac and just gets rinsed out with alcohol after each use-- no need to get it completely clean as the residual shellac quickly redissolves, so very convenient for small jobs. My current brush has been in near daily use for nearly a decade now and still has plenty of life left. You won't believe the difference a good brush makes.

I had some 40 year old flakes that would no longer dissolve, so they can develop problems.

Something called burnt shellac is used a lot as a weak adhesive and sealer in player piano and organ work. It is great for sealing metal to wood and is easily reversible. You take your old shellac in a metal container outside (!) and light the alcohol on fire and let it cook down until it has the consistency of honey than store it in a sealed container. It dries rock hard and will stay stuck to metal, unlike most glues, but will fracture and come apart if you shock it. Clean up for rebuilding is quick, it sands right off or dissolves in alcohol, and doesn't need to be perfect as new shellac happily sticks to old. A wonderful old-fashioned material that is near perfect for its purpose.

 

[Adrian Wilson]

I’ve never personally had a problem with flakes going bad, but I meant that I suspect if stored improperly anything can happen. I think that’s one of the benefits of buying flakes over pre-mixed, for their long-lastedness.

Yup, and I wasn't disagreeing with you; just saying I know it CAN happen, but I haven't personally seen it happen much.

 

[Doug Freeman]

If you want to mix your own, recommend buying the lightest color you can find, and using Transtint dye to create whatever color you want for a particular project. There is no need to purchase various color flakes to achieve a color.

 

[Adrian Wilson]

I use a lot of shellac, it's the finish of choice for all the organ work I do. I get mine from shellac.net, they carry a full range of colors from button lac to platinum blonde in both regular and dewaxed versions.



Something called burnt shellac is used a lot as a weak adhesive and sealer in player piano and organ work. It is great for sealing metal to wood and is easily reversible. You take your old shellac in a metal container outside (!) and light the alcohol on fire and let it cook down until it has the consistency of honey than store it in a sealed container. It dries rock hard and will stay stuck to metal, unlike most glues, but will fracture and come apart if you shock it. Clean up for rebuilding is quick, it sands right off or dissolves in alcohol, and doesn't need to be perfect as new shellac happily sticks to old. A wonderful old-fashioned material that is near perfect for its purpose.

I play wood flute, and you can buy shellac sticks for replacing the pads in the metal keys. You put some shellac in the key with the pad on top, heat the key from beneath until the shellac flows, then press the pad in while it cools and sets. Works beautifully. it's not just bug poop: it's MIRACLE bug poop.

 

[hockenbery]

I have no idea what cut I am using; I just mix some up, and if it is too thin, I add flakes. Too thick, I add alcohol until it is what I want.

My mixing is much more sophisticated.
When Jimmy Clewes was teaching a class in my shop he saw my jar of flakes and asked if he could mix some shellac.
His recipe for a thin mix was to put about 1.5 inches of flakes in a plastic water bottle. Fill to 3/4 with alcohol and shake.
Leave it over night check in the morning. Add a little alcohol if needed.
Been using that method for over 15 years

 

[Richard Coers]

Once again I am in the minority. but here is the information if you so desire to believe it. Remember, in flake form, and stored properly, shellac has a shelf life of around 3 years. Keep the flake cool, dark and tightly sealed. Therefore you can stock-up and mix only what is needed for the job at hand. https://www.shellac.net/faq.html#:~:text=Remember, in flake form, and,for the job at hand. https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread...c flakes in,together, this is called blocking.
Shellac flakes have a finite shelf life unknown to most users. Even if Shellac flakes are stored in a cool, dark and dry place, but older than 2 years (thumb rule), it will not dissolve completely in alcohol overnight when compared to fresh stock. https://www.shellacfinishes.com/ufaqs/what-is-the-shelf-life-of-shellac/
It took some doing but it turned out destroying shellac is pretty easy to do. Oxygen! if you take some perfectly fresh shellac, put it in a bag, fill the bag with oxygen it will quickly lose it's ability to dissolve.
It's not heat, it's not humidity, it's oxygen.

Shellac Shelf Life -The Followup

When we our hero had said all my shellac dissolves send me some dewaxed shellac and I will try to dissolve it. We had found that just about everything

toolsforworkingwood.com

Plus this has been discussed here before. https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/shellac-flakes.16538/

 

[Rob Gabel]

I mix my own shellac now so I can control the cuts. I use a 1lb cut for a sealer and do heavier cuts for using it as is or mixing to make "shine juice". I trick I learned is to go to a thrift store and buy a coffee grinder. Grind the flakes prior to mixing, helps them dissolve faster. For the alcohol see if your local liquor store sells Everclear grain alcohol. Does not contain any of the chemicals that are found in denatured alcohol.

 

[Richard Coers]

I mix my own shellac now so I can control the cuts. I use a 1lb cut for a sealer and do heavier cuts for using it as is or mixing to make "shine juice". I trick I learned is to go to a thrift store and buy a coffee grinder. Grind the flakes prior to mixing, helps them dissolve faster. For the alcohol see if your local liquor store sells Everclear grain alcohol. Does not contain any of the chemicals that are found in denatured alcohol.

Everclear is around $25 per quart. $100 per gallon makes for a super expensive thinner!!!!

 

[Rob Gabel]

Everclear is around $25 per quart. $100 per gallon makes for a super expensive thinner!!!!

I have not purchased in awhile. I will need to find a local moonshiner that may be willing to part with some at a lower cost.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Keep shellac flakes in the freezer?

 

[Mark Jundanian]

This is interesting:

View: https://youtu.be/iEkKwOWZS_E

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I buy my supply from Shellac Shack . Best prices I have found and fresh stock. I keep the flakes in the fridge. I think what I have now is over 4 years old and still dissolves fine. I mix a 3# cut and dilute it for what I need. I have had the mix to last a year but not reliable after that. I use Platinum now but once also used Garnet . The Garnet is mostly used on cherry to blend the sapwood in to more even color. Have not tried keeping in freezer but I do think that is also ok.

 

[Alan Weinberg]

I have not purchased in awhile. I will need to find a local moonshiner that may be willing to part with some at a lower cost.

About $60 a gallon at Lab Valley. Denatured alcohol w 5% methanol.

 

[Wally Crawford]

Is isopropyl alcohol (91%) suitable for thinning shellac?

 

[Randy Anderson]

Shellac is my goto gloss finish. I mix my own and keep the flakes in the frig. 1.5lb cut is my typical mix. I get dewaxed blonde flakes from Old World Shellac.

 

[Dean Center]

I assume most people are not mixing up a gallon of shellac at a time. Certainly those who might like to give it a try don't need a huge amount to start with. Would you folks who mix your own specify how much shellac flakes you actually mix with how much DNA to get a specific cut? Thanks.

 

[Brian Gustin]

I assume most people are not mixing up a gallon of shellac at a time. Certainly those who might like to give it a try don't need a huge amount to start with. Would you folks who mix your own specify how much shellac flakes you actually mix with how much DNA to get a specific cut? Thanks.

Me too, love to have some numbers to note down , although it would be fairly simple to do some math and figure proportions - a gallon of DNA weighs around 6.55 pounds, which translates to about 2,971 grams weight (which is fairly close to liquid ml measure, I believe.) and of course a pound of dry weight about 453.6 grams... So I'd probably just grab my trusty baker's scale and measure out like 29 ml of DNA to 4.5 grams of Shellac flakes to get a 1 pound cut which would amount to about a little over an ounce of liquid - so just multiply the values by how many ounces of shellac...

But then, It's just easier to find out from others what their favored cuts are and by what measure of each they use to mix their own... (experience trumps math, IMHO)

 

[Michael Anderson]

Would you folks who mix your own specify how much shellac flakes you actually mix with how much DNA to get a specific cut?

My go to is a 1 pound cut. I mix it in the same glass jar I store it in. 12g shellac and 79g alcohol makes a 1lb cut. Adjust from there. Shake and stir often-ish, and all of the flakes are usually dissolved within a few hours.

@Wally Crawford yes, I believe isopropyl alcohol will dissolve shellac fine. Just make sure it’s high % and not rubbing alcohol (water added).

 

[Randy Anderson]

I mix 8oz of DNA with 1.5oz of flakes in a glass mason jar. Be sure you have a good lid. Seems to be a good amount to work through for each batch. Easy to make in a few minutes if what I have is old or I run out. Most likely know it but, when I buy DNA it comes in a container marked as stove fuel in big letters, denatured alcohol in smaller letters. Might miss it on the shelf if not aware.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Is isopropyl alcohol (91%) suitable for thinning shellac?

Isopropyl will disolve shellac but it is slower than ethanol or methanol DNA) . The water content can be a problem and the higher percentages can be hard to find the last time I ordered it for a customer.

 

[Adrian Wilson]

If I was going to use isopropyl, I would look for high 90's%. Ethanol is the standard because it works best overall.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I mix 8oz of DNA with 1.5oz of flakes in a glass mason jar. Be sure you have a good lid. Seems to be a good amount to work through for each batch. Easy to make in a few minutes if what I have is old or I run out. Most likely know it but, when I buy DNA it comes in a container marked as stove fuel in big letters, denatured alcohol in smaller letters. Might miss it on the shelf if not aware.

I have heard (from Kent Weakley) that the "stove camp fuel" has more additives than DNA. I don't know if it matters in the slightest.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I have just recently started mixing my own shellac. I mix a 1# cut with DNA, a pint at a time. I just keep it in a mason jar. I can't recall where I bought the flakes but it was from a specialty house. I bought the blonde.

I suppose it depends on what your goals are for the shellac. I no longer buy pre-made shellac because I don't know what's in it. I have heard heavy metals are used for a drying agent (perhaps myth, perhaps not). I just want shellac. If I wanted "shellac + varnish" I would have bought that. To each his own.

 

[Randy Anderson]

Kent, no idea if true or not. Reading the can of Klean-Strip I have it says Fuel / Denatured Alcohol. Doesn't give any more details than that. I've also seen cans that say Denatured Alcohol / Fuel.

 

[Roger Wiegand]

Since I can't think in pounds and quarts I made this table to paste up on the door of my finishes cabinet for making up various cuts of shellac in different volumes. If you prefer to weigh out your alcohol multiply the last column by 0.8; ~800 g of ethanol pretty much equals one liter, 1000 ml.

I said it before, but for the trivial price difference I can't see messing around with the ever changing mystery fluid in the DNA/Fuel cans from the borg. Mohawk shellac reducer is a consistent, reliable product with no toxic methanol. Yes, it's $50/gallon, but how much do you use?

 

[Dean Center]

Thank you, Roger. That really answers my question. Randy and Michael are right on your chart!

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

We have talked about mixes and flakes but not about bad shellac. When it is past its prime it will either not form a coat (dry) and be sticky or pool. Best test is to place a pool on glass surface .

 

[Vitor Cruz]

I would like to suggest this link about shellac…..the video is in italian.

http://www.restaurarconservar.com/epages/298256.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/298256/Products/Shellac

 

[Adrian Wilson]

I would like to suggest this link about shellac…..the video is in italian.

http://www.restaurarconservar.com/epages/298256.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/298256/Products/Shellac

This is all very interesting; that company is supplying the conservation trade, and it was in a national museum wood conservation lab I was taught to NOT use isopropyl or methanol. Isopropyl and isopropanol is the same thing. We used laboratory grade ethanol only, but that is not available to me now (Canada, eh?). 95% and 99% isopropyl IS readily available, and I have both. The only way to now is to try, so that is on the list for the weekend.

My local hardware store has this bio-fuel; supposed to be 100% ethanol and isopropyl (safety sheet says may contain from 1-20% isopropyl). Not cheap though; may be an option. Before, I would have steered clear because of the isopropyl content. https://e-nrg.com/ca/en/

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

Kent, no idea if true or not. Reading the can of Klean-Strip I have it says Fuel / Denatured Alcohol. Doesn't give any more details than that. I've also seen cans that say Denatured Alcohol / Fuel.

Something just clicked in my head. It could be nothing more than DNA and mineral spirits. "White gas" is mineral spirits, I believe.