Twice Turned Spindles?

[Larry Steinmetz]

Hello all. I have read a lot about twice-turned bowls and seen many videos discussing this. While talking to someone at work about this, they asked if you could twice turn spindles. I am too new to this and have never tried it nor have I read anything about it so thought I would ask.

 

[GRJensen]

You twice turn bowls because you are likely using green/wet wood. By twice-turning, you remove material to speed up drying process. Spindles, on the other hand, are typically either kiln-dried or air dried and seldom turned green/wet, so there is really no need to twice turn them.

 

[Brian Gustin]

What GR Jensen said. I'd add: When you are working with green (wet, also unstable) wood the wood will move often a lot as it dries - it warps and gets wonky and out of kilter- So twice turning means turning green to the rough shape and thickness and then set it aside to dry and stabilize (stop moving) so you can finish turn a concentric, evenly formed project. You can do so with Spindles as well, but long spindles going out of round can get so wonky and out of shape you pretty much have nothing much left to turn once you get it back to round/straight - However spindles being turned as boxes, goblets , etc. can often be roughed out and then stabilized and final turned just like is commonly don with bowls.

On the flip side, you can once-turn green bowls, goblets etc with the express purpose of turning it to final thickness and letting it warp (which can lead to some very artistic pieces) and likewise with green wood to turn long thin spindles and then let them warp as they will (positioning the grain strategically to get things to warp the way you would like them to is a skill in itself!)

Bear in mind, even kiln dried or air dried wood can and will move as the humidity in the environment changes, but they generally do not move quite as much as they would if they had been turned green.

 

[Hugh]

Cut your wet spindle wood a bit large. Seal it up and stack in a nice place to dry......slowly.
Some will warp too much, but then you can make smaller things out of them.
Cut away the pith and any bad wood. Firewood.
In a year or two.....lots of good spindle wood.

 

[Larry Steinmetz]

You twice turn bowls because you are likely using green/wet wood. By twice-turning, you remove material to speed up drying process. Spindles, on the other hand, are typically either kiln-dried or air dried and seldom turned green/wet, so there is really no need to twice turn them.

Thanks. I should have probably been more specific and said that I was talking about recently cut, green wood but, if I understand correctly, the proper approach would be to let it dry and then turn it.

 

[Larry Steinmetz]

What GR Jensen said. I'd add: When you are working with green (wet, also unstable) wood the wood will move often a lot as it dries - it warps and gets wonky and out of kilter- So twice turning means turning green to the rough shape and thickness and then set it aside to dry and stabilize (stop moving) so you can finish turn a concentric, evenly formed project. You can do so with Spindles as well, but long spindles going out of round can get so wonky and out of shape you pretty much have nothing much left to turn once you get it back to round/straight - However spindles being turned as boxes, goblets , etc. can often be roughed out and then stabilized and final turned just like is commonly don with bowls.

On the flip side, you can once-turn green bowls, goblets etc with the express purpose of turning it to final thickness and letting it warp (which can lead to some very artistic pieces) and likewise with green wood to turn long thin spindles and then let them warp as they will (positioning the grain strategically to get things to warp the way you would like them to is a skill in itself!)

Bear in mind, even kiln dried or air dried wood can and will move as the humidity in the environment changes, but they generally do not move quite as much as they would if they had been turned green.

Thanks, Brian. Given what you have said, it makes sense that turning a green piece of wood as a spindle would not have the same potential for success as turning a bowl.

 

[hockenbery]

Thanks. I should have probably been more specific and said that I was talking about recently cut, green wood but, if I understand correctly, the proper approach would be to let it dry and then turn it.

yep
I cut wet wood spindles on the bandsaw from desirable wood.
3x3, 2x2, 1x1. I like 3 ft lengths. I coat the ends with anchor seal and stack them with stickers.
Dry them 9 - 12 months.
Then it’s dry.

 

[Mauricio Kolenc]

Well, in the trade we rough turn almost everything from green if we can, even handle stock. You turn them round and leave them to dry . But boxes and scoops are good examples of spindles wich are normally rough turned from green and left to dry. I try to get rid of all the wood I`m not going to use in the finished piece.

 

[john lucas]

I experimented with turning green spindles. They warp too much to re turn most of tge time. I have done green Christmas ornaments. The finial warps and twists so you have to turn it in short sections and don't go back.
Like AL I cut green spindle stock and dry it.

 

[Michael Anderson]

The only spindles I would rough and twice turn are box blanks from greenwood that may crack if the pith isn’t mostly removed quickly. Otherwise, season and then turn in one go.

 

[Don Stephan]

For making s;pindle blanks to dry, rather than sawing, which may not follow the grain, split into blanks. Seal the ends, and stack with stickers in the shade to dry slowly. A wooden mallet and froe are the traditional tools for splitting blanks like this from slabs, but a carefully used axe and larger wooden mallet could work.

 

[hockenbery]

Two green wood spindles I want to do more of is
Napkin rings turned on 2 or 3 centers and spheres from live oak.

When I do demos of spheres or napkin rings I usually use wood that is just a bit dry so it isn’t throwing water.
This eliminates the dust so everyone is comfortable.
The live oak spheres warp into sort of blunt football shapes - just have to figure out how to use them

The napkin rings go a Little oval making them a lot nicer. Also since I’m drilling out the center pith in limbs can be used.

Just need to spend some time with these.

 

[Hugh]

I love the turned wet Live Oak spheres. I seal them up and put them away. Pull them out in a couple of years. Use a scraper to take the sealer off and to smooth them out. When finished, they are a joy to hold. You show them to folk and they ask how you did that. Ma Nature is cool!

 

[Michael Brown]

Here's a completely different perspective... Billiard cues.
Most butt and shaft pieces are turned down 10+ times over a half decade, sometimes longer.
McDermott did a video on their process and I believe their rough stock can be warehoused for over a decade before it finally leaves the building to play.

 

[Kevin Weir]

I often get odd pieces after chainsawing bowl blanks from freshly sawn wood. If they are long enough, I turn them green into a 2.5 to 3 inch diameter spindle that is 15 to 18 inches long. Then they sit for 9 months before going in my heated box. These will become rolling pins. I could leave them in the square, but that little bit of extra corner wood that I remove will help decrease the drying time. How much? Not sure, but it’s still fun to spindle turn green walnut, curly maple, etc.

 

[hockenbery]

I love the turned wet Live Oak spheres. I seal them up and put them away. Pull them out in a couple of years. Use a scraper to take the sealer off and to smooth them out. When finished, they are a joy to hold. You show them to folk and they ask how you did that. Ma Nature is cool!

Cool! They do feel fine in the hand!

I’ve not sealed mine.
They are 2.5-3” the wood can move as it dries.
No cracks but that may be more about me not caring or maybe the southern live oak interlocking grain.

 

[Hugh]

The spheres I have made from the Live Oak are 3-5" diameter. I think I like the smaller ones as they roll around in the hands better.
I have made spheres using Red Eucalyptus and gotten the same movement. Just turn out the pith....no matter what the wood.

For twice turned spheres.....I do not mind leaving the pith in just because the grain pattern is so neat. Branch crotches are good also.
I am using the West Coast version of Live Oak - I believe Coastal Live Oak.
Drying....I have to seal the wood. Maybe it is the time of the year that I get the wood that is the problem. But, I seal them all.

 

[Byron Patterson]

I have thousands of black walnut trees and this is how I make my spindles that then end up handles:

from my smaller trees / limbs the wood sits in my barn for a number of years unsealed. cut a few inches off of each end.
cut into the longest straightest pieces that I can (which I can handle long since I have a Jet 1221vs + extension.
Turn off all bark and make round with slightly large tenons on both ends (in case I need to true them up before final use).
Date them with pencil of the date that were rough turned and let them sit on a shelf a month or so until needed.

 

[R Henrickson]

Undercarriage pieces for WIndsor chairs (legs and stretchers) are turned to finish green. Tenons are dried, so that the wood of the legs shrinks onto them for a tighter fit. Leg billets are either rived or cut along the grain. There is little problem with distortion.

 

[hockenbery]

Undercarriage pieces for WIndsor chairs (legs and stretchers) are turned to finish green.

The hodger chairs were all turned green
Saw a Roy Underhill show where he made one
Tenons were bulbous the mortise drilled with a spoon bit made a hole wider than the opening
The tenons slightly wider than the mortis opening were banged through the narrow opening and stayed in place until the wood dried

Wood dries making tight glue free joints