Unpopular Turning Opinions...

[Bill Alston]

I’ve just had another look at the Hunter site. As a point of interest the insert sizes are:

#1 - 6mm
#2 - 8mm
#3 - 10mm
#4 - 12mm

I use mainly 6mm cutters, mostly because I managed to get several boxes of them on eBay for a very good price!
I also don’t turn large stuff so this size of insert is more applicable to the turning I do.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

Have a look at this video to see what I mean. Used at an angle these inserts cut very well. Carbide inserts like these are not normally used with any type of limiter. I have seen that type of thing on HSS cutters with larger steeper cutting surfaces.
Simon Hope was I believe one of the pioneers in the UK to offer these type of hollowing tools using RCGT type cutters.

Hope Carbide Pro Hollowing Tool

Designed for an all round tool from boxes to deeper vessels. The end sleeve pulls off allowing the 16mm bar to fit into any HOPE quick release…

hopewoodturning.co.uk

View: https://youtu.be/UurwZRgaPjY?si=_tMrdkUr5rLYj0dC


This is the hollowing tool I made a while back. Several guys at my club tried it out and they were impressed with it. The tip can be rotated and locked at any angle.


View attachment 60257

I had made a tapered shaft tool also about 10 years ago but I didn't use hexagon rod like that one. At the time there was a company making a similar tool with a round shaft that had two flats machined to tilt the cutter to the left or right as the flats were on the tool rest, which I believe would be similar to your idea but with less adjustability. The problem I have with both ideas is the angle on the cutter should be changeable during the cutting process and that can be accomplished by simply using a round shaft like the video shows.

 

[Tim Otto]

I have a few...

1. I don't care for turning wet wood... especially if its spraying wet all over the shop!
2. I enjoy turning crappy wood... in fact, its almost all I turn.
3. I often sand my bowls on the lathe at >1200 rpm... or with an angle grinder and a flap disc
4. I'm willing to risk bleeding, bruises, and banged up hands to turn crappy wood... (I haven't taken a shot to the head in a long time! And I wear serious gear if its too sketchy...)
5. I rarely "ride the bevel"
6. Brute force sometimes works better than "proper" technique.
7. I won't give up on a piece... I've spent WAY too many hours saving a piece that probably wasn't worth it in the end
8. I enjoy the struggle of the most difficult pieces
9. Since I got my 3M PAPR about 5 years ago, I don't mind sanding!
10. I never have, and probably never will, enjoy spindle turning

Don't judge me.

I like odd shaped wood too

 

[Tim Otto]

As you can buy the inserts very cheaply these days, they can be incredibly cheap if you have the wherewithal to make the rest.
Although I use mostly conventional HSS tools I’ve made loads of carbide tools including a few “experimental”.

Please give us a source where inserts can be had cheaply. Thanks

 

[Bill Alston]

Please give us a source where inserts can be had cheaply. Thanks

I’ve bought them on eBay before, I snagged three boxes of ten RCGT0602 inserts for £36 ($45) some time ago. That works out at $1.50 per insert. I see they’re going for $23 each some places. I admit that was an exceptional deal. I still keep a look out on eBay but I bought my last lot of inserts on Amazon. These were the ones.

Amazon.com

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I like odd shaped wood tooView attachment 60284

I hear some folks like the bubble butt. /shrug

 

[Tim Otto]

I’ve bought them on eBay before, I snagged three boxes of ten RCGT0602 inserts for £36 ($45) some time ago. That works out at $1.50 per insert. I see they’re going for $23 each some places. I admit that was an exceptional deal. I still keep a look out on eBay but I bought my last lot of inserts on Amazon. These were the ones.

Amazon.com

Thanks

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I’ve just had another look at the Hunter site. As a point of interest the insert sizes are:

#1 - 6mm
#2 - 8mm
#3 - 10mm
#4 - 12mm

I use mainly 6mm cutters, mostly because I managed to get several boxes of them on eBay for a very good price!
I also don’t turn large stuff so this size of insert is more applicable to the turning I do.

Note that 1 & 2 are best for hollowing, not very good for smoothing the cut. I use 4 for smoothing cut. Of coarse this is not to say not possible with a 1 but would take lots of practice.

 

[robo hippy]

Some one commented that Wesson was out of business, and they were the only people in the US that made tantung. I do know that it is a cast metal. Not sure what exactly stellite is exactly. They are similar for edge durability, but they are two different metals. It is manufactured up in Canada, and they sent me some pieces years ago. I called them back a while later, and they would only sell me a 'block' of the stellite. I don't have any means of processing it. The tangung is cut using some electrically charged wire, apparently a Russian method from WW2.

I was looking to get some cutting tips for my Oneway coring system made, and several recommended Arizona Carbide. For what I wanted, they said minimum order was 300 pieces. They do have pretty much everything. Apparently the tips are cast individually. I wanted one that didn't have that spear point on it, and was a wedge. That type of cutter by far out cuts the tipped one, and you don't have to take it off the arm to sharpen it..

robo hippy

 

[Bill Alston]

Reed, I wonder if a water jet would cut Tantung or Stellite?

 

[Neil McWilliams]

I have a few...

1. I don't care for turning wet wood... especially if its spraying wet all over the shop!
2. I enjoy turning crappy wood... in fact, its almost all I turn.
3. I often sand my bowls on the lathe at >1200 rpm... or with an angle grinder and a flap disc
4. I'm willing to risk bleeding, bruises, and banged up hands to turn crappy wood... (I haven't taken a shot to the head in a long time! And I wear serious gear if its too sketchy...)
5. I rarely "ride the bevel"
6. Brute force sometimes works better than "proper" technique.
7. I won't give up on a piece... I've spent WAY too many hours saving a piece that probably wasn't worth it in the end
8. I enjoy the struggle of the most difficult pieces
9. Since I got my 3M PAPR about 5 years ago, I don't mind sanding!
10. I never have, and probably never will, enjoy spindle turning

Don't judge me.

Wow! You would have subscribers on YouTube for sure. Do you post videos there?

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

I’ve bought them on eBay before, I snagged three boxes of ten RCGT0602 inserts for £36 ($45) some time ago. That works out at $1.50 per insert. I see they’re going for $23 each some places. I admit that was an exceptional deal. I still keep a look out on eBay but I bought my last lot of inserts on Amazon. These were the ones.
Amazon.com

Probably 99+% of the inserts on eBay from China are counterfeit. The worst cases are name brand inserts where even the package has been reproduced to look like the real thing. Using them in woodturning isn't nearly as bad as expecting them to hold up in metal turning.

 

[John Ames]

Wow! You would have subscribers on YouTube for sure. Do you post videos there?

The fact that I’m able to post things on this forum is a miracle…
I can answer e-mail and order crap on Amazon and that’s it…
My kids have to google for me!
It’s kind of embarrassing….

 

[Bill Alston]

Probably 99+% of the inserts on eBay from China are counterfeit.

All the ones I’ve bought on eBay have been fine and probably exactly as marked. More recently though I’ve been getting Chinese stuff from Amazon and they haven’t had a brand marking on them, so couldn’t be counterfeit! The metal working inserts have all been good so far and work well. Wood turning is a far less critical use of carbide inserts and unless they actually *break in use I can’t see what could go wrong with them?
* If you use the wrong type of fasteners they aren’t actually difficult to break if you over tighten them. Having said that the RCGT inserts are much more solid than the flat ones. I think you’d snap the screw (M2.5mm) on an RCGT 0602 before damaging the insert.

 

[Bill Alston]

You can buy these on eBay even cheaper but make sure they have the AK suffix as shown below which denotes a sharp edge.
Note the comments from wood turners on this suppliers site.

 

[J. Paul Fennell]

Some one commented that Wesson was out of business, and they were the only people in the US that made tantung. I do know that it is a cast metal. Not sure what exactly stellite is exactly. They are similar for edge durability, but they are two different metals. It is manufactured up in Canada, and they sent me some pieces years ago. I called them back a while later, and they would only sell me a 'block' of the stellite. I don't have any means of processing it. The tangung is cut using some electrically charged wire, apparently a Russian method from WW2.

I was looking to get some cutting tips for my Oneway coring system made, and several recommended Arizona Carbide. For what I wanted, they said minimum order was 300 pieces. They do have pretty much everything. Apparently the tips are cast individually. I wanted one that didn't have that spear point on it, and was a wedge. That type of cutter by far out cuts the tipped one, and you don't have to take it off the arm to sharpen it..

robo hippy

You can find several sources of Tantung "G" lathe tool bits on Ebay by searching "Tantung." I have been using Tantung cut off blades for many years as small scrapers and parting tools. Years ago, traveling through Oregon, I happened upon a woodworking shop that sold myrtle wood bowls and they were using tantung scrapers for turning them. I also found T-15 bits are very wear resistant but difficult to sharpen. Good luck, J. Paul Fennell

 

[robo hippy]

The use of the tantung on turning tools came from the Oregon Coast myrtle wood turners. It happened so long ago, no one knows who came up with the idea. I chatted with Bob Tuck, who passed away some years back, and he was almost 90, and he didn't know. They also came up with the name 'Big Ugly' tool.

I don't know if the water jet method would work or not. I still have a stash I am sitting on, and will keep for years to come. I need to make some specialty box tools. That method of the charged wire has very little waste. There used to be a place in Australia that manufactured tantung. No clue if they are still around.

robo hippy

 

[J. Paul Fennell]

The use of the tantung on turning tools came from the Oregon Coast myrtle wood turners. It happened so long ago, no one knows who came up with the idea. I chatted with Bob Tuck, who passed away some years back, and he was almost 90, and he didn't know. They also came up with the name 'Big Ugly' tool.

I don't know if the water jet method would work or not. I still have a stash I am sitting on, and will keep for years to come. I need to make some specialty box tools. That method of the charged wire has very little waste. There used to be a place in Australia that manufactured tantung. No clue if they are still around.

robo hippy

From what I recall, the mrytle wood shop I visited mentioned that Tantung held an edge longer than other available high speed steels.
From experience, water jet will cut steel easily, carbides and most anything else with some exceptions (like tempered glass). Perhaps a local company engaged in this method could provide relevant answers.

 

[Darryl Fective]

I like odd shaped wood tooView attachment 60284

Looks like you found a really nice piece of ash right there...

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Now, now, Darryl. Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's ash.

 

[Darryn Achall]

LOL, I hear that. If I'm going to sit down and write myself an app today, it will be in C#.

yeah, with Blazor you can even write web browser apps in C#

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

All the ones I’ve bought on eBay have been fine and probably exactly as marked. More recently though I’ve been getting Chinese stuff from Amazon and they haven’t had a brand marking on them, so couldn’t be counterfeit!

My favorite inserts for soft metals and wood are Korloy brand. A CCGT insert for example will be about 10 to 15% on eBay of what US sellers charge. The Chinese packaging is identical to Korloy factory packaging. Do you think they might be counterfeit?

I see Chinese CCGT on Amazon for about 20% to 25% of normal US pricing for name brand inserts.

Granted for limited use casual users may not see any difference.

Interesting how a big deal is made of counterfeit woodturning equipment, why not carbide inserts too?

 

[John Ames]

My favorite inserts for soft metals and wood are Korloy brand. A CCGT insert for example will be about 10 to 15% on eBay of what US sellers charge. The Chinese packaging is identical to Korloy factory packaging. Do you think they might be counterfeit?

I see Chinese CCGT on Amazon for about 20% to 25% of normal US pricing for name brand inserts.

Granted for limited use casual users may not see any difference.

Interesting how a big deal is made of counterfeit woodturning equipment, why not carbide inserts too?

Korloy is a South Korean tooling brand and has a major manufacturing plant in Qingdao China... Among other plants in India and Vietnam, as well. When you buy the Korloy inserts "from China" you are doing so direct from the factory. I don't think they are counterfeited.

China is far from innocent when it comes to counterfeiting, but I think in this specific case, with Korloy inserts, buying direct from the factory is where the savings are coming from

 

[Dennis Weiner]

I’ve just had another look at the Hunter site. As a point of interest the insert sizes are:

#1 - 6mm
#2 - 8mm
#3 - 10mm
#4 - 12mm

I use mainly 6mm cutters, mostly because I managed to get several boxes of them on eBay for a very good price!
I also don’t turn large stuff so this size of insert is more applicable to the turning I do.

I use 6mm when I deep hollow a large piece or when I make a small box. The 6mm are easier to control. This may be unpopular with the hoggers, but there is less stress applied to the wood and equipment with multiple small cuts as opposed to taking one cut with a larger cutter. Yeah, I know, size doesn't matter! Or does it?

 

[Bill Alston]

I use 6mm when I deep hollow a large piece or when I make a small box. The 6mm are easier to control. This may be unpopular with the hoggers, but there is less stress applied to the wood and equipment with multiple small cuts as opposed to taking one cut with a larger cutter. Yeah, I know, size doesn't matter! Or does it?

Aside from the fact I still have about 5 boxes of the 6mm cutters, I really like them as they are easier to control than the larger ones.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Korloy is a South Korean tooling brand and has a major manufacturing plant in Qingdao China... Among other plants in India and Vietnam, as well. When you buy the Korloy inserts "from China" you are doing so direct from the factory. I don't think they are counterfeited.

China is far from innocent when it comes to counterfeiting, but I think in this specific case, with Korloy inserts, buying direct from the factory is where the savings are coming from

John, you could be right about the eBay Korloy's being factory direct, but if so that would violate a very basic rule of marketing : Do not under cut your dealer network. If they were factory direct why don't their ads say that?

Carbide inserts are a perfect item to counterfeit. Relatively expensive for their size, usually not marked with a brand name. Loose inserts without the factory box are hard to impossible to identify.

So many of the supposedly Korloy inserts are coming from different locations in China. How about this disclaimer "Packaging should be the same as what is found in a retail store, unless the item was packaged by the manufacturer in non-retail packaging, such as an unprinted box or plastic bag". I found one Chinese seller that listed availability of practically every typically high priced insert from all over the world including Kennametal, OSG and Walter. Very suspicious.

Even Amazon descriptions of items can't be trusted. I just received U-bolts made in China that were described as made of stainless steel with zinc plating. I didn't care, just interesting to note obvious errors in ads.

Some sellers use American sounding names with item locations as US cities, but Googling does not find any such businesses. Many times grammatical errors give them away. Why would a legitimate, low cost seller want to hide their location?

 

[Adrian Wilson]

The tangung is cut using some electrically charged wire, apparently a Russian method from WW2.



robo hippy

That sounds like a wire EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining) process. If so that's a pretty common thing, there are shops around with that technology. Wire machines, for short. I have a friend here in rural Nova Scotia that had two machines last time I was there. He mostly does shaper and moulder tooling, but dabbles in weird formula race car pieces, but I don't remember anything about it so don't ask. Bottom line is, you put the blank in a water bath, there is a spooling wire with a tiny charge running down it, and it nibbles away the cut. As I remember, it is normally used to do 90 degree cuts, but he was cutting bevels on the tooling pieces. Wire EDM

 

[robo hippy]

That sounds like it Adrian. Thanks. I will probably forget by the time it comes up again......

robo hippy