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Buffing

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I'm reading a lot about vonex as a buffing compound. I've been using the Beall system - tripoli, white diamond and carnauba wax pretty much. I do skip the white diamond on walnut because the white gets into the pores. On pens I've used GluBoost, micromesh and Novus three step polish followed by buffing with Ren. Wax.

I know vonex is used after Parfix. Can anyone speak about their experience with vonex and it's use?
 
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john lucas

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Have not heard of Vonex. I have noticed that Tripoli takes a long time to buff out defects in parrafix finishes. I wonder if vonex I'd courser.
 
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I believe it is spelled "Vonax". Vonax is a substitute for white diamond, and I use it in the same manner: after tripoli and before wax. Its biggest advantage is not leaving the white residue in pores. I have used it on walnut oil, oil base poly, and lacquer finishes. When I use Osmo Polyx as a finish, I skip the tripoli and go straight to Vonax. I like it. I will continue to use my white diamond until it is used up (when there is no danger of leaving a white residue) but will probably just use Vonax if I am still alive when I run out of white diamond
 
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Look up Mark Silay on utube. There are several videos where he discusses his finish prep, parfix, and Vonax use. From what I can tell Mark seems to have started parfix 3408 and vonax use in the US.
 
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I'm reading a lot about vonex as a buffing compound. I've been using the Beall system - tripoli, white diamond and carnauba wax pretty much. I do skip the white diamond on walnut because the white gets into the pores. On pens I've used GluBoost, micromesh and Novus three step polish followed by buffing with Ren. Wax.

I know vonex is used after Parfix. Can anyone speak about their experience with vonex and it's use?
Does the Tripoli not get in the pores? Hmmm, I dunno. I've heard of skipping the Tripoli, but not the White Diamond. You might be loading too much WD compound on the wheel. Also, perhaps consider wet sanding with a oil/varnish mix to fill the pores, wipe and let cure, and that would fill the pores. There's a technique to that, and it takes some time. Just a thought.
 
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Does the Tripoli not get in the pores? Hmmm, I dunno. I've heard of skipping the Tripoli, but not the White Diamond. You might be loading too much WD compound on the wheel. Also, perhaps consider wet sanding with a oil/varnish mix to fill the pores, wipe and let cure, and that would fill the pores. There's a technique to that, and it takes some time. Just a thought.
Hmm, I just yesterday got Tripoli stuck in some spots on an expensive Claro Walnut bowl. That was my first step after three coats of Waterlox. Anyway to get it out?
 
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Hmm, I just yesterday got Tripoli stuck in some spots on an expensive Claro Walnut bowl. That was my first step after three coats of Waterlox. Anyway to get it out?
I'll leave it someone else to answer that question, but I really get the feeling you're overloading the wheels. Perhaps post a photo? It's hard to tell visually how much is on the WD or wax wheels, but the Tripoli wheel should be a light rouge color. If there's too much on the wheel, firmly wrap some 60-grit sandpaper around a flat piece of stock and run it over the wheel until it's clean. Might be a good idea, also, to watch Beall's video(s) on how to use the buffing system.

[I still am wondering about filling the pores before finishing -- anyone else have an opinion?]
 
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john lucas

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If your getting white residue in your walnut your shells have too much wax on them. Early on I had lots of problems with this. I cleaned my wheels using the sharp edge of a freshly cut board. My white wheel looks like it doesnt even have anything on it. I apply a quick swipe of the white diamond and buff. I do sand to 600 grit which might also help. I turn a fair amount of walnut and dont have a problem with white residue. Occasionally I do get carry over into textured details but even that is rare.
 

odie

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You might be loading too much WD compound on the wheel.


Jamie has the answer! :)

When I first started using the Beall 3-step buff system, I loaded up the wheels too much. Now I don't have these problems, and my buffed bowls are showing it.

Use the EEE and WD very sparingly, and your success in using these products will benefit markedly......without losing any of the benefits that they are capable of.

-----odie-----
 

odie

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Like most things, the longer you stick with the program, the better you get with it.

We have so many alternatives in woodturning, that many people try things once or twice, and then decide it doesn't work as they've been told it would. They move on to other methods without knowing what "time in the saddle" can benefit them.

Believe it, or not.....there is a certain "skill" that can be developed when using the Beall system.....and, it doesn't come overnight! o_O

-----odie-----
 
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Like most things, the longer you stick with the program, the better you get with it.

We have so many alternatives in woodturning, that many people try things once or twice, and then decide it doesn't work as they've been told it would. They move on to other methods without knowing what "time in the saddle" can benefit them.

Believe it, or not.....there is a certain "skill" that can be developed when using the Beall system.....and, it doesn't come overnight! o_O

-----odie-----
You're not kidding there is a "skill"!
 
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Does the Tripoli not get in the pores? Hmmm, I dunno. I've heard of skipping the Tripoli, but not the White Diamond. You might be loading too much WD compound on the wheel. Also, perhaps consider wet sanding with a oil/varnish mix to fill the pores, wipe and let cure, and that would fill the pores. There's a technique to that, and it takes some time. Just a thought.
Jamie, I suspect the white diamond shows up more because it's white. I don't always wet sand but when I do the specks are not an issue. It's just easiest for me to skip white diamond on non-wet sanded wood. I barely touch the wheel and sometimes don't even add any so I don't think I'm overloading it.
 
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I rarely see white residue embedded into pores. I usually buff on top of film finishes like oil base poly so residue would not be expected, even in walnut. I have seen white residue most often in bark layers but even then, not very often. When I buff an unsealed surface, like wood treated with walnut oil, I usually don't see a white residue, but on darker woods, I usually go directly to Vonax because "why take a chance?"
 
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I too have had problems with WD, particularly but not exclusively, on walnut. I have cleaned the wheel completely with sandpaper on a board as suggested but I'm too the point that I'm scared to use it on anything! Once in the pores it's almost inpossible to remove. I skip it altogether now. But the comments on the vonex have me thinking I'll buy a bar to check it out.....

I do believe that I need to put a lot less compound on the wheel AND use a lot less preassure but I'm learning...
 
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ordered some Vonex and gave it a try today on some walnut. it does not leave the white residue like white diamond does as someone above mentioned. However Idiscovered some things I didn't expect after experimenting. I was testing on bare wood and found that I got excellent results with my buffing wheels using just the Vonex and carnuba wax. I'm throwing out the tripoli and the WD and will just use those two from here on out. It was very surprising how the tripoli and the vonex put a shine a polish on bare wood. I didn't expect that.
 

odie

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The biggest problem with either the White Diamond or Tripoli, is using too much.....loading up the wheel. This, I suspect is a problem with those who initially try the Beall 3-step buffing method once or twice, and pronounce it a poor method.....without ever discovering what it is that was causing their "newbie" problems. Without a doubt, that problem was overwhelmingly loading up the wheel.....and never discovering that using both the WD and EEE very sparingly is what works best.

When I first began using the Beall 3-step buffing system, I too, used too much of these compounds, but I stuck with it long enough to work out the problems......and, the problems turned out to be something that I was doing wrong.

Use it very sparingly, and your results will dramatically improve.

-----odie-----

edit: I see I've addressed this issue before in this thread:
Like most things, the longer you stick with the program, the better you get with it.

We have so many alternatives in woodturning, that many people try things once or twice, and then decide it doesn't work as they've been told it would. They move on to other methods without knowing what "time in the saddle" can benefit them.

Believe it, or not.....there is a certain "skill" that can be developed when using the Beall system.....and, it doesn't come overnight! o_O

-----odie-----
 
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I use the tripoly and diamond bars to charge the buffing wheels, I have seen too much triply on the wheels in the distant past, and I used a hacksaw blade to rake the spinning buffing wheels to clean that off, worked well for me, I find that the triply is the greasier one and I have to watch that one to keep it from building up on the wheels, the diamond is the drier polishing material and will remove the tripoly from the surface, I don't have a problem with either product getting into the wood pores, but then I'm normally finish the piece with Polymerized Tung Oil before buffing, so he pores are not wide open anymore.

Carnauba wax I seldom use as it will leave water spots on the turnings if the get rained on or wetted somehow, as I have had that one time, giving me a lot of work without improving the pieces when I was done with it. I might use it on some small piece that I expect will never get close to water or show the spots.
 

Tom Gall

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Another way to clean wheels is a piece of low grit sandpaper ,maybe 50, held on a board against the wheel . This will take off all the buildup.
I've heard other people recommend this. I don't think this is a good idea. Just like when sanding a piece on the lathe cleaning or blowing the dust and possible sanding grit off the surface between grits is recommended. When buffing you have already completed all your sanding work. Why take a chance on some coarse grit being embedded on your wheels and scratching your surface? Use a buffing wheel rake, a sharp corner of a piece of wood, or a hacksaw blade like Leo mentioned.
 
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I've heard other people recommend this. I don't think this is a good idea. Just like when sanding a piece on the lathe cleaning or blowing the dust and possible sanding grit off the surface between grits is recommended. When buffing you have already completed all your sanding work. Why take a chance on some coarse grit being embedded on your wheels and scratching your surface? Use a buffing wheel rake, a sharp corner of a piece of wood, or a hacksaw blade like Leo mentioned.
I sometimes think the sanding grit legend is just that with modern adhesives and with the speed the wheel us turning I do not see any stray granules sticking and the paper is usually covered in wax.
 

Tom Gall

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I sometimes think the sanding grit legend is just that with modern adhesives and with the speed the wheel us turning I do not see any stray granules sticking and the paper is usually covered in wax.
And you probably don't see any sanding scratches in your work until you apply a finish! Why take the chance? At my age I know my vision probably won't see a "stray granule(s)" stuck to my tripoli loaded wheel.....and I doubt you will either, Gerald. :) Just use one of the other options.
 
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And you probably don't see any sanding scratches in your work until you apply a finish! Why take the chance? At my age I know my vision probably won't see a "stray granule(s)" stuck to my tripoli loaded wheel.....and I doubt you will either, Gerald. :) Just use one of the other options.
Actually my cataracts are removed:D
 
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The biggest problem with either the White Diamond or Tripoli, is using too much.....loading up the wheel. This, I suspect is a problem with those who initially try the Beall 3-step buffing method once or twice, and pronounce it a poor method.....without ever discovering what it is that was causing their "newbie" problems. Without a doubt, that problem was overwhelmingly loading up the wheel.....and never discovering that using both the WD and EEE very sparingly is what works best.

When I first began using the Beall 3-step buffing system, I too, used too much of these compounds, but I stuck with it long enough to work out the problems......and, the problems turned out to be something that I was doing wrong.

Use it very sparingly, and your results will dramatically improve.

-----odie-----

edit: I see I've addressed this issue before in this thread:
Sometimes I just have to learn the hard way! I just started using the Beall system this year. Like many, I loaded the wheel with too much white diamond. It’s easy to do because the wheel is white too. When it came to buffing a small piece of East Indian Rosewood, the pores quickly filled with white Diamond of course; not the effect I was looking for. Eventually most of it buffed out. But I wish I read read this post first.

Overall, I love the Beall system and the finish. The silky smooth surface it leaves on a piece of Tree of Heaven is incredible. Next purchase will definitely be a set or two of the buffing spheres.
 

odie

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While my attention is diverted to the Beall system for the moment......I have noticed a new product called the Buffer Rake. I'm just wondering if anyone has used the rake, and how well it works for them. I have been using a brass bristle brush for this purpose, and it has been working for me pretty well. (As mentioned.......do not use a steel wire brush for this purpose, as it discolors the buffing wheel, rendering it unusable for wood.)

Give us your opinion of the Buffer Rake:

View: https://youtu.be/Wgxpyx1V_yI


-----odie-----
 
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1648431442693.png

Buffing rake from an old bandsaw blade. Looks grabby but it's not.
A good buffing post from 2017.
Ps. Never did make a longer handle :D
 
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That Beall rake looks a whole lot like a mastic applicator I have somewhere. It's about 3.5" square with notches on 4 sides, 2 sides with smaller notches and 2 with larger. Probably costs $3 at the Home Despot.
 

odie

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A lot of suggestions for steel based tools for cleaning the buffing wheels. The Beall directions now specifically state that using steel based abrasive tool discolor the wheel and rendered it unusable for wood buffing. Now, I've never used a steel based tool for removing any buildup on the Beall wheels, I'm wondering if anybody can confirm that steel based tools do, in fact, ruin the wheels for buffing wood?????

Originally, I used a coarse sandpaper, as in the original Beall directions......but, changed over to a brass bristled brush.....and since it worked well, stayed with that solution. I never did I use a steel based brush, band/circular saw blades, galvanized nail plate.....so, I can't confirm the warnings from Beall against that.

Looking for confirmation.

-----odie-----
 
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@odie Been using an old steel wire brush with no coloring of the buff wheel. It was old and rusty, and it was cleaned with a brush wheel, then dribbled some dna to wash off residue. Very lite touch is all that is needed. I use it to break in new buffs and clean some I overloaded with compound. I clean it with dna and air after cleaning a buff.
 
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While my attention is diverted to the Beall system for the moment......I have noticed a new product called the Buffer Rake. I'm just wondering if anyone has used the rake, and how well it works for them. I have been using a brass bristle brush for this purpose, and it has been working for me pretty well. (As mentioned.......do not use a steel wire brush for this purpose, as it discolors the buffing wheel, rendering it unusable for wood.)

Give us your opinion of the Buffer Rake:

View: https://youtu.be/Wgxpyx1V_yI


-----odie-----
Just looked at it on Beall's website. $12 is a reasonable price, but shipping was another $12 ... I'll just use a board like John Lucas!
 
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I have had the same experience as others, too much compound leaves residue, since going to minimal compound on the wheel have not had issues EXCEPT....
I have blue and red rouges. The red is finer than WD and the blue is even finer. The blue is semi-dry and works fine, the red is kind of greasy and is much more likely to leave residue. I recommend not using greasy compounds.
 
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