I found an old thread on this subject in which contributors suggest that using a continental gouge for cross-grain finish passes is difficult or even inadvisable. Is that true? A continental gouge has become my go-to tool for final passes on bowls before sanding - inside and out. I present the lower edge at 45 degrees or greater without bevel support, handle down, and get spiral shavings and a nice surface - better than I've been able to get with a raised-burr scraper presented at similar angles. I understand that the size and shape of the tool, plus the tang connection to the handle, could produce an epic catch disaster but that's true for spindle work too. Just wondering whether anyone else is regularly using a continental gouge for cross-grain work.
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Continental gouge for cross-grain finish passes
- Thread starter Holmes Anderson
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It was a commonly used tool last century. In my club Phil Brown used a continental gouge and attributed learning it from Bob Stocksdale. The side ground gouge became the preferred tool of most turners who get an equal or superior surface with it over the surface achievable with the continental gouge.
Nothing wrong with the old methods they worked then and they work now.
I would never recommend trying the continental gouge to anyone below the expert level.
Beginners and intermediates can be taught to use the sideground gouges to great effectiveness.
The continental gouges can make for a nice high angle shear cut. Similar to when using the skew, you only cut with the lower 1/3 of the cutting edge. If you cut at half way or higher, you will get a severe catch. They can be used on the inside of a bowl, but I would not do that one. Ole Michael Mouse used it as his favorite tool for bowl turning. He would actually do a shear scrape where the bevel was not rubbing. It does work, but I prefer a bowl gouge for those cuts. I can get nice long curly q's with a scraper in shear scrape mode with a burnished burr, and that is my final cut on bowls.
robo hippy
robo hippy
I would rather use a bowl gouge on a bowl. If done right you can get a nice surface with no tear out ready to start sanding with 120 or higher.
I would do if my bowl gouge had an Ellsworth grind but the short wings on my bowl gouge are not good for shear (sheer?) scraping so I have to use a different tool. I was using a round nose negative rake scraper with a primary bevel of about 70 degrees but the burr wasn't cutting reliably. That may be due in part to poor quality tool steel and my primitive sharpening rig. The continental gouge is actually fairly similar to a round nose scraper apart from the slight curvature. I have no problem raising a good burr on the continental gouge so I will try regrinding the round nose scraper at 45 degrees without the negative rake bevel like the gouge and see if that works.
Just noticed that my continental gouge is M2 and the scraper is lower grade HSS so steel durability may be part of the difference.
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You can make your own Ellsworth grind pretty easily. I was a complete novice when I made mine. www.turnawoodbowl.com has a sharpening course that's well worth the price in my opinion. I think it's $90 or so. I'm sure you can find something on Youtube if you don't want to spend the money.
Young turner here. Is this term 'side ground gouge' referring to a general category of gouges where
1. they have swept back wings
2. the steel under one side's (or both, but probably not) grind is removed like a secondary bevel but on the side?
I tried a google search for this term, but google wasn't smart enough. lol 🤣😂😅
You don’t need to shear scrape. I finish all of my bowls with a sharp bowl gouge and a push cut. Zero tear out and start sanding with 120 to 180 grit. I grind my bowl gouges to 55 degrees and remove the bottom half of the bevel.
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Glad you did
Side grind is the general term for a bowl gouge with a long wing
I first learned the Oniel grind the. Moved to the Ellsworth grind
Side grind is the general term for a bowl gouge with a long wing
I first learned the Oniel grind the. Moved to the Ellsworth grind
You have a steadier hand than I do Rusty. I typically start with a 5/8" 40 degree bowl gouge, then 1/2" 50 degree bowl gouge, then sheer scrape to clean up and sand. If I don't sheer scrape to even out the ripples and bumps then I have to spend too much time sanding. But I take your point and hopefully will gain some skill.
Most gouges sweep back at least a little. My BOB (bottom of bowl) gouges all have a ) shape nose, which actually isn't too far off of the continental style gouge. I use the 40/40 a lot, and don't use the swept back/Ellsworth/O'Neil style at all any more.
robo hippy
robo hippy
But you probably wouldn't want to do much sheer scraping with the 40/40 or BOB I assume. Do you grind the scraper you use for sheer scraping at 75 degrees? I can't remember from the video but I do remember seeing a chart someone put together to show the wide range of scraper bevels preferred by different turners and I thought it said 75 degrees next to your name. I watched Tomislav Tomasic's scraper video recently and was surprised that he prefers 45 degree standard scrapers (basically doesn't use NRS apparently). 45 degrees seems like an outlier. Thought I might give it a try on something that will not take long to regrind. Speaking of which, is it a bad idea to hog off metal with an angle grinder for major reshaping?
Most of my scrapers are ground at about 65 degrees, which is pretty much how they came. My robo rest settings are off by about 5 degrees, so I thought I was at 70. Had a play date with Fred Ugla, a turner down south of me who has used the Big Ugly tool since before I was turning, and that was 30 years ago. His were ground to an almost identical angle. I was surprised at Tomislav's angles. I do really like his channel.
As for using an angle grinder for major reshaping, I buy my scraper blanks unground so I can shape them myself. No one else does it quite the way I do. To do my basic half round scraper shape, I did use an angle grinder, and for my spear point scraper, I had to, and I did make some marking knives which again required the angle grinder. I can't really see using them on gouges though. I do have a 1 1/2 hp Jet belt sander with a 36 grit belt for other serious shaping of my tools.
For shear scraping, I use scrapers. Spear point for outsides, round nose or ) nose for insides. I like a burnished burr for my edge. Gouges don't work nearly as well, and I would have to do a lot more shaping of tools. You can shear scrape with the 40/40, but it has a rather short wing. For those who use swept back gouges, the longer wing on it does a fair job. I only have one swept back gouge now days, and it is my second David Ellsworth signature gouge. It has been worn down to a nub. I keep it for show and tell.
robo hippy
As for using an angle grinder for major reshaping, I buy my scraper blanks unground so I can shape them myself. No one else does it quite the way I do. To do my basic half round scraper shape, I did use an angle grinder, and for my spear point scraper, I had to, and I did make some marking knives which again required the angle grinder. I can't really see using them on gouges though. I do have a 1 1/2 hp Jet belt sander with a 36 grit belt for other serious shaping of my tools.
For shear scraping, I use scrapers. Spear point for outsides, round nose or ) nose for insides. I like a burnished burr for my edge. Gouges don't work nearly as well, and I would have to do a lot more shaping of tools. You can shear scrape with the 40/40, but it has a rather short wing. For those who use swept back gouges, the longer wing on it does a fair job. I only have one swept back gouge now days, and it is my second David Ellsworth signature gouge. It has been worn down to a nub. I keep it for show and tell.
robo hippy