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Cubitron abrasives

R

robo hippy

Joined
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I have been on a quest to find hook and loop discs. Still not sure if they can be found or not. In chatting with AAAbrasives who wholesale 3M abrasives, it appears that 3M does not want to sell sheets of hook and loop. They will sell the PSA/sticky backed abrasive, and I guess the more open pattern which I call a "chevron" type of pattern, and this can be seen on just about any You Tube video that promotes this product.

One question, does anyone out there use the PSA discs? What type of interface pads do you use?

Are there any sources for the hook and loop discs?

I have personally become very attached to the over sized discs from VinceswoodNwonders. Since my bowls have no details and just plain smooth sides, they work fine for me. The biggest problem I have with the disc being the exact same size as the interface pad, it seems that no matter how careful I am, part of the hooks is always exposed, and that seems to leave 80 grit scratches which is a pain to remove, and makes for more work rather than less. The frugal side of me can not buy a bunch of 5 inch discs and punch a 3 3/8 inch circle out of the middle. I do like them for sanding my flat work, and it does seem to greatly reduce the amount of sanding time required on each piece, as well as on my bowls.

I guess one last question would be is 3M just totally clueless about how many discs they could sell to all the turners, and not just in the US, but world wide?

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
guess one last question would be is 3M just totally clueless about how many discs they could sell to all the turners, and not just in the US, but world wide?
Click to expand...

Along these lines my question would be what percentage of turnings made worldwide need sanding? Automated, production turnings need almost no sanding, maybe only a quick hit with a flap type wheel.

High production factory turners solved the sanding issue years ago by design of tooling that left a near perfect finish.

My answer to your question is they may not be clueless, the market just may not be there.
 
I get most of my 5 inch disks from Taytools.com you can get rolls of sheet abrasive often from Amazon as well (I'm sure theres other sources..) Cubitron was developed towards the auto body trade, I believe so you may also likely find it at auto body supply houses maybe? Those rolls of Hookit (775L) could likely be used if you had a decent die stamp to cut your own disks in whatever size you need ..
 
If the discs have to be 3-3/8", the 70mm rolls will be a bit too narrow. And you probably won't be able to get many grits in the next widest (4-1/2") roll. But see if you can get an auto parts supplier to get you the "file sheets", which are in various lengths and widths (including 3-3/4"). They are marketed to body shops, where the panel beaters put them on longish sanding planes. They are usually available in all grits (or at least, 80-320). With a die, they could be cut into 3-3/8" discs.

Here is the part name / number and a link to the 3M site:
3M Cubitron II Hookit File Sheet 737U

Edit: I see someone on eBay selling the file sheets, so there might be accessible online sources (the listing I saw was for 10 of the 4-1/2" x 30" sheets for $60, so maybe about 60 cents a disc, which isn't bad.)
 
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Being the proud owner of lots of different types of sandpaper (aka, sucker…here we go again, lol), doesn’t it make sense to get the best sandpaper for the final passes only? I am asking for a friend, haha!!
 
Russ Braun said:
Being the proud owner of lots of different types of sandpaper (aka, sucker…here we go again, lol), doesn’t it make sense to get the best sandpaper for the final passes only? I am asking for a friend, haha!!
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Two points occur to me here.

One is that cheap sandpapers often have less evenly sized particles of grit, with the result that they leave unwanted deep scratches relative to the pattern you are expecting. That could be hard to fix with the last / finest grit.

Second, the final finish is only one factor: the time it takes you to get there, and the lifespan of the papers you used to get there, are also relevant, and some sandpapers do better than others on these criteria.

There are lots of sandpaper trials / reviews out there, but some of the more scientific ones, and ones that highlight Cubitron, are those by Jonathan Katz-Moses on YouTube. Here is a link to his sandpaper videos:
 
Well, I googled contact 3M and there was an 800 number, so will call them on Monday and ask around. Who knows what I may find.... I will ask about getting clicker dies made and/or can I get sheet stock. I did watch the JKM video, and a number of others including the Project Farm guy and the conclusions are the same, the cubitron outlasts anything else out there by a huge margin. Nothing else comes close. The biggest difference seems to be the particular abrasive particles that they use. The latest thing in abrasives, and this started a long time ago, was rather than sifting to get the grits, they electrostatically charge the abrasive particles so the grit pattern is far more consistent than the old school sifting where long pieces that if they were laying down flat, would not get through the screen, so there are no particles that stand up proud of the film surface. I have played with pretty much every abrasive out there, and this is the best. Just have to find out how to get the sized discs I need. I hope it doesn't come down to buying a bunch of 5 inch discs and then punching a 3 3/8 inch disc out of the middle..... Just too wasteful.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
I hope it doesn't come down to buying a bunch of 5 inch discs and then punching a 3 3/8 inch disc out of the middle..... Just too wasteful.
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How about getting 6" discs, from which you can punch two 3" and two 2". Grind the mandrel down until it's under 3". Then you have a slightly smaller sanding mandrel still with the abrasive overlapping the edge.
 
Terry Vaughan said:
Grind the mandrel down until it's under 3". Then you have a slightly smaller sanding mandrel still with the abrasive overlapping the edge.
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This may be your best and final solution, Reed. Make your disc holder smaller, so you have some overhang on the 3" discs. (and, no, I don't have any idea on the best way to do that. Maybe Steve Worcester would have a suggestion)
 
Cutitron II Hookit (hook and loop) discs do come in 3" (though not the 3-3/8" that Reed is looking for). They end up being about $1/disc, which is not bad.

On a quick look for online sources I see that there is a vendor on eBay (Kustom Paint Supply in Fremont CA) who seems to be selling them. This link is to the eBay.ca page for that vendor, but presumably it will resolve to eBay.com if accessed from the US:
www.ebay.ca

3M Cubitron II Hookit 3" Hook & Loop Abrasive Discs | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 3M Cubitron II Hookit 3" Hook & Loop Abrasive Discs at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.ca
 
Kevin Jenness said:
$1/ 3" disc seems high. Cubitron
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Yes, it is high compared aluminium oxide discs, even very good ones, but about right for Cubitron. (For reference, the 3" discs of another specialty brand name sandpaper, Abranet, tend also to be around $1 each.)

And of course, the per-disc cost is only part of the equation: the Jonathan Katz-Moses videos, which looked to be quite thorough, concluded that Cubitron is competitive (or cheaper) when the criterion is quantity of material removed per disc.
 
Gord Cameron said:
Yes, it is high compared aluminium oxide discs, even very good ones, but about right for Cubitron. (For reference, the 3" discs of another specialty brand name sandpaper, Abranet, tend also to be around $1 each.)

And of course, the per-disc cost is only part of the equation: the Jonathan Katz-Moses videos, which looked to be quite thorough, concluded that Cubitron is competitive (or cheaper) when the criterion is quantity of material removed per disc.
Click to expand...
It's high compared to the Amazon link I posted. I do appreciate the value of Cubitron and I have been switching over my 5" discs from Klingspor as they are used up, but I've been paying less than $1 per 5" disc for a box of 50.
 
I have purchased 3" disks from Taylor Tools also. Note that there are two types of Cubitron II: one is a mesh like Abranet (also called "Extract") and one is a paper-backed disk with perforated holes. Many of the YouTube videos that compare sandpaper performance put both of the Cubitron types very high, but the mesh version usually come out on top. My own experience is that the mesh disks only perform well with an ROS sander, and is not very durable when putting it on a rotary mandrel
 
Kevin Jenness said:
It's high compared to the Amazon link I posted. I do appreciate the value of Cubitron and I have been switching over my 5" discs from Klingspor as they are used up, but I've been paying less than $1 per 5" disc for a box of 50.
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Yes, that Amazon link has a good price, and thanks for the lead, I have placed an order.
 
Well, I just got off the phone with 3M. It turns out that I can order 3 3/8 inch discs as a custom order, minimum order is 2000 discs. I had to go through a "distributor" which for me is AAAbrasives. Apparently Grainger is a distributor for 3M as well. I do like the over sized discs, in part because it has more surface area than a 3 inch disc. They will cut them to size for me so I don't have to punch them out. I have not been quoted a price, but I am guessing I will get a wholesale price. We shall see. I went for 80, 120, 220, and 400 grits. Nice thing about this stuff is that you can skip grits. That is how well it cuts.

robo hippy
 
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robo hippy said:
Well, I just got off the phone with 3M. It turns out that I can order 3 3/8 inch discs as a custom order, minimum order is 2000 discs. I had to go through a "distributor" which for me is AAAbrasives. Apparently Grainger is a distributor for 3M as well. I do like the over sized discs, in part because it has more surface area than a 3 inch disc. They will cut them to size for me so I don't have to punch them out. I have not been quoted a price, but I am guessing I will get a wholesale price. We shall see. I went for 80, 120, 220, and 400 grits. Nice thing about this stuff is that you can skip grits. That is how well it cuts.

robo hippy
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I will say this, I bought several assortment packs (50) of what I think were Xtract Cubitron II disks, cut them like I cut my disks and sent them out to alot of woodturners to try. The results, and my own, were just OK. We had better results with Mirka Galaxy, but your results will vary.
Because you are trying to make a 3 3/8" disk, the standard product that you would punch them out of is a 6" disk, and you would only get one per 6" disk, so it is way too expensive.
Dealing with 3M was interesting. Contacted a local rep, who found me local dealers who quoted me 10%-25% more that what I could get from out of state dealer/distributors. That was buying each grit by the case.
 
Steve Worcester said:
I will say this, I bought several assortment packs (50) of what I think were Xtract Cubitron II disks, cut them like I cut my disks and sent them out to alot of woodturners to try. The results, and my own, were just OK. We had better results with Mirka Galaxy, but your results will vary.
Because you are trying to make a 3 3/8" disk, the standard product that you would punch them out of is a 6" disk, and you would only get one per 6" disk, so it is way too expensive.
Dealing with 3M was interesting. Contacted a local rep, who found me local dealers who quoted me 10%-25% more that what I could get from out of state dealer/distributors. That was buying each grit by the case.
Click to expand...
The "Xtract" Cubitron II discs (710W) are on a mesh base. This base and the herringbone abrasive pattern are optimzied for use on a ROS with constant vacuum dust extraction and shouldn't be assumed to perform well on a typical woodturner's rotary sanding setup. This is especially true given the "fraying edges" issue that results from the mesh base.

The Cubitron II Hookit discs (775L) that Reed is sourcing are on a film backing. They perform exceptionally well on a rotary sander and are cost-competitive because of their high removal rates and long life.

I think that if the 775L sandpaper, in solid (no holes) form with a hook-and-loop backing were produced in over-sized and/or wavy-edged 2" and 3" discs, and marketed to an informed customer base, they could be a top choice among woodturners.

Sounds like you might be well-positioned to try this Steve...
 
Steve Worcester said:
That's for a 50 pack but that's not the latest design, which has a mesh type backing
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As Gord said, I don't think the mesh backing overhanging a sanding pad would hold up that well sanding the inside of bowls. I've used both it and the film backed 5" discs for hand sanding turnings and the film is more durable. The mesh is better for flat work.
 
Kevin-the Amazon link you provided seems to be the 775L variety. Can you confirm? Glen Lucas sells dies for punching your own 2&3" discs, but not the oversized discs Robo is looking for. His dies are a little expensive, but a one time purchase.
 
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