Drying wood

[John Torchick]

Have a small toaster oven but like something bigger. I know there are kilns made from old refrigerators. Could one be run off solar panels in my storage building? No room in the shop or basement. Thanks. Asking as my neighbor works with rental managers to clean out old appliances, etc.

 

[John K Jordan]

Have a small toaster oven but like something bigger. I know there are kilns made from old refrigerators. Could one be run off solar panels in my storage building? No room in the shop or basement. Thanks. Asking as my neighbor works with rental managers to clean out old appliances, etc.

I've read many times over the years of people using an (insulated) fridge or freezer, cutting some vent holes near bottom and top so moisture can escape, then heat gently with incandescent light bulbs near the bottom. If you have no power in your storage building, I can't see why solar panels wouldn't work = as long as they can supply enough power to power an incandescent bulb.

I'd have to do some research to try to find what wattage has been used successfully. Or maybe someone will chime in with their experience.

JKJ

 

[John Torchick]

Thanks, JKJ. Will check Internet and Ye Olde YouTube, too. I might be able to shuffle a few things in the basement. Power drain wouldn't be to much.

 

[Wally Crawford]

I use an electric space heater attached to a thermostat for more accurate control. Heating devices like mine are power hungry, so probably would not work with your solar, but if you decide to move it to the basement, it has been an awesome set up.

 

[Ted Pelfrey]

I use to run lights in an old fridge. Now I just run a tiny fan to pull moisture out. I can return a hf in about 2 months . Probably above 98% success rates. The key is to leave just enough moisture in there to keep things slowly drying. Turn down to say 10% of intended form thickness and round corners before you put it in. Weigh ever week or so till it stops losing weight.

 

[John K Jordan]

Now I just run a tiny fan to pull moisture out.

Hey, that's something I'd never heard about and like learn more and try! I'm trying to imaging what kind of fan and how tiny its diameter, speed, what's holding it in place. Is the piece on it's side, vertical? AC I assume, or powered by a 12v power supply to run for a few months.

Just to be clear, the fan is pulling air away from the opening? Is the fan small enough to fit inside or just rely on some outside air sneaking inside around the opening? How do you hold the fan it in place?

Or does the fan direct air down a tube inside the form and the inside pressure cause the moist air to exit around the tube?

If it's a special fan, where did you get it? Perhaps a small muffin fan or the type used to cool computer processing chips?

Do you have a photo of the fan, positioned and in use? I'd love to see your invention (unless it's in the hands of the patent lawyers! )

JKJ, one of your biggest fans!

 

[Timm De]

Hey, that's something I'd never heard about and like learn more and try! I'm trying to imaging what kind of fan and how tiny its diameter, speed, what's holding it in place. Is the piece on it's side, vertical? AC I assume, or powered by a 12v power supply to run for a few months.

Just to be clear, the fan is pulling air away from the opening? Is the fan small enough to fit inside or just rely on some outside air sneaking inside around the opening? How do you hold the fan it in place?

Or does the fan direct air down a tube inside the form and the inside pressure cause the moist air to exit around the tube?

If it's a special fan, where did you get it? Perhaps a small muffin fan or the type used to cool computer processing chips?

Do you have a photo of the fan, positioned and in use? I'd love to see your invention (unless it's in the hands of the patent lawyers! )

JKJ, one of your biggest fans!

If i had the money I would go with one of the newer humidity sensor bathroom exhaust fans. You can set the fan speeds and what level you want the fan to kick on at with a flap that opens to not let any back draft in while not running. They would need a decent power source though at 30-60watts on 120v

 

[John Torchick]

JKJ, I would think (scary, isn't it?) that any fan would circulate the air, directed up to "Push" the moisture/air to the top. Or...a bathroom ceiling fan to pull the air up and out.

 

[Ted Pelfrey]

Hey, that's something I'd never heard about and like learn more and try! I'm trying to imaging what kind of fan and how tiny its diameter, speed, what's holding it in place. Is the piece on it's side, vertical? AC I assume, or powered by a 12v power supply to run for a few months.

Just to be clear, the fan is pulling air away from the opening? Is the fan small enough to fit inside or just rely on some outside air sneaking inside around the opening? How do you hold the fan it in place?

Or does the fan direct air down a tube inside the form and the inside pressure cause the moist air to exit around the tube?

If it's a special fan, where did you get it? Perhaps a small muffin fan or the type used to cool computer processing chips?

Do you have a photo of the fan, positioned and in use? I'd love to see your invention (unless it's in the hands of the patent lawyers! )

JKJ, one of your biggest fans!

I’m down right now with a knee replacement. When I’m able to get out to the shop I’ll post a few pics of my setup and explain how it developed to what it is today. But for now the fan is like a 3 or 4” fan sitting on its own base.

 

[John Torchick]

Ted, hang in there. Had the right knee done in December 2024. Worst was PT as some translate it as Pain and Torture. Mine wasn't too bad as some experienced. I had eight weeks two and three times a week. The PA at the orthopedic clinic said it takes about a year for bone to heal. Still get a bit of discomfort if I stand for a long time. Learned to turn sitting in a stool. Other things require standing; try to limit the time there.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I have a kiln made from a student frig. Holes in top and bottom I think 1.5 inch , computer fan for circulation and a thermostat controlling the temperature. Incandescent light bulb is the heat source, think it is 60 watt. I weigh about every 3 days. Can dry a 3x3 blank to equilibrium in about 3 to 6 days.

@John K Jordan By the way the fan is only to circulate the air inside it is NOT an exhaust.

 

[John Torchick]

Did the usual search and found one from 2023 (think it was Wally Crawford) who used an old double commercial refrigerator. Know of a restaurant supply store. Might check if they had one sitting in the scrap heap. Single would fit fine in the basement.

 

[John K Jordan]

Now I just run a tiny fan to pull moisture out.

JKJ, I would think (scary, isn't it?) that any fan would circulate the air, directed up to "Push" the moisture/air to the top. Or...a bathroom ceiling fan to pull the air up and out.

Yes, easy to exhaust air from an enclosed vented space like a box or a room. But from the description of a "tiny fan to pull moisture out" I imagined it pulling moisture out of the inside of the vessel, not necessarily from the surrounding space.

I’m down right now with a knee replacement. When I’m able to get out to the shop I

Yikes, forget all of this and take good care of yourself! One family member had the second knee replaced, getting around fine now.

When discussing the upcoming surgery with our family doctor, he suggested a stationary bike did more for his quick recovery than anything. I said, good idea, I'll look for one.

That doctor is amazing - he said "don't bother, I have a spare one in my basement." That guy loaded it up in his truck, drove to our farm, and set it inside in my piano/music room. What a guy!!! And it did help a lot, at first just for the motion and no resistance, now building strength. The PTs are always saying "Motion is lotion!"



Music room is getting full! Now I need to find homes for some more instruments - a couple of spare accordions, french horn, cornet, harmonicas. I'm keeping the remaining guitars and cello (and the shop piano- everyone has one of those in the shop, right?)

JKJ

 

[John Torchick]

Yes, a stationary bike is good. Even though my surgery was over a year ago, need to dust mine off. Got mine from my wife's cousin. Bike sits on the floor and you pedal while seated. Has an adjustment for tension on the pedals. I liken it to life- you pedal like mad but get nowhere.

 

[John K Jordan]

Yes, a stationary bike is good.

When not in use for therapy, I like to relax on it, peddling away just because, while playing my little thumb piano (mbira/kalimba).



I first saw and heard a thumb piano played 57 years ago in front of the Washington Memorial by one of the 1/2 million people who descended on DC.

What an experience. As a photo journalist, I covered the Nov '69 event with 13 rolls of 35mm B&W film and put up a display of 8x10 photos at Berea College in KY (about bankrupted this poor kid!). As yearbook photographer, I also put photos in the college yearbook that year of a few who served but never made it home.

I was fascinated by the little thumb piano and the tall guy playing it. I got one as soon as I could. Harder to play songs than a piano but great fun - try one sometime!

JKJ

 

[Ted Pelfrey]

Hey, that's something I'd never heard about and like learn more and try! I'm trying to imaging what kind of fan and how tiny its diameter, speed, what's holding it in place. Is the piece on it's side, vertical? AC I assume, or powered by a 12v power supply to run for a few months.

Just to be clear, the fan is pulling air away from the opening? Is the fan small enough to fit inside or just rely on some outside air sneaking inside around the opening? How do you hold the fan it in place?

Or does the fan direct air down a tube inside the form and the inside pressure cause the moist air to exit around the tube?

If it's a special fan, where did you get it? Perhaps a small muffin fan or the type used to cool computer processing chips?

Do you have a photo of the fan, positioned and in use? I'd love to see your invention (unless it's in the hands of the patent lawyers! )

JKJ, one of your biggest fans!

This is my current setup. Old style fridge with section cut out between top and bottom. When I only had a few blanks at a time drying I would be in a hurry to dry quickly. Now I have plenty going in all stages of finishing so no hurry. I would run a heat lamp with various watts to speed up drying. As someone said the fan was for circulation when running heat. Now the fan is for exhaust. My goal is to be able to feel and smell a little humidity when I open door. Out of the lights , no wind currents, some humidity, works great.

 

[robo hippy]

A long time friend and mentor had a "drying shed" where he used a dehumidifier and a light bulb. The dehumidifier needed a hose to the outside. Every species is different, and so are different pieces from the same tree. It is an art that goes along with learning to turn. In general, fruit woods will crack more than others. Mesquite is fairly stable. Madrone is off the charts on warpage, and you have to tame it by boiling or once turn it.

robo hippy

 

[Ted Pelfrey]

A long time friend and mentor had a "drying shed" where he used a dehumidifier and a light bulb. The dehumidifier needed a hose to the outside. Every species is different, and so are different pieces from the same tree. It is an art that goes along with learning to turn. In general, fruit woods will crack more than others. Mesquite is fairly stable. Madrone is off the charts on warpage, and you have to tame it by boiling or once turn it.

robo hippy

About to build a drying shed off my shop. Plan on building cabinets insulated like a fridge. Surrounded on all sides with closed cell foam.

 

[Larry Copas]

I have been running a part time small sawmill and kiln operation for 30 years. I've had 5 kilns during this time and still learning new tricks. Every species of wood has a drying schedule. The drying schedules are modified depending on the starting moisture content and thickness of the wood.

What I'm trying to get across is one drying method might work great for turner A and be a total failure for turner B. I think a great starting point is getting a sheet of 1-1/2" foam. Surplus foam can be found in old poultry houses that are being torn down. Slap together a rough box shape, duct tape will help, A light bulb or two for heat, and a controller to regulate the heat. As wood dries, it releases moisture so venting is required to exhaust the moist air and a intake vent to replace that air. A small computer muffin fan or other fan will work. Pretty simple but the hard work is just beginning. It will take some trial and error to be able to dry wood, crack, and check free.

 

[Darryn Achall]

As a side note, it is not legal to manufacture, sell, or commercially ship incandescent bulbs to some states, including mine. It is legal to possess incandescent bulbs and use them if you already have one or get one out of state and bring it here. Linear fluorescent bulbs are also not allowed. Compact fluorescent will be phased out by 2029. Pretty much the only thing available is to upgrade to LED lighting. Using a fan now seems like the thing to try.

 

[John Torchick]

As a side note, it is not legal to manufacture, sell, or commercially ship incandescent bulbs to some states, including mine. It is legal to possess incandescent bulbs and use them if you already have one or get one out of state and bring it here. Linear fluorescent bulbs are also not allowed. Compact fluorescent will be phased out by 2029. Pretty much the only thing available is to upgrade to LED lighting. Using a fan now seems like the thing to try.

But what is there to generate a bit of heat in the kiln? Sunlamp bulbs?

 

[Brian Gustin]

But what is there to generate a bit of heat in the kiln? Sunlamp bulbs?

reptile heat lamps from pet shop...

 

[Darryn Achall]

I think the idea is control the temperature and humidity in some manner. Any small heat source controlled by a temp sensor and a fan controlled by a humidity sensor should work. You can experiment by adjusting the heat and humidity until you find what works in your location. Although I would exclude open flame for the heat source, ha ha.

 

[John K Jordan]

As a side note, it is not legal to manufacture, sell, or commercially ship incandescent bulbs to some states, including mine.

Back when the rumor was incandescent bulbs would be discontinued, I purchased a tub full of a variety of sizes and stored in the barn loft. If they are talking about saving energy for lighting, that's fine. But they didn't consider other uses.

Another type of heat lamp still available is for poultry. Unfortunately, both the white and red poultry lamps put out too much heat for some wood use.

Another option might be a heat lamp or ceramic heater sold to people who keep snakes and other reptiles.

Another type useful for both reptiles and baby poultry is a radiant panel heater. I use several of these in brooders for baby chickens, peacocks, etc.,
use one for a warmer in the winter for an elderly cat (put it in an insulated box)

And there are very good temperature controllers made for greenhouses, aquariums, etc that will control heat from nearly any 110v electric source. I use one of these to control an egg cooler and keep another as a spare. Will control temperature for either warming or cooling.

Amazon.com

JKJ

 

[John Torchick]

reptile heat lamps from pet shop...

That's what I thought. Poultry heaters?

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I use the reptile heaters.

 

[Tim Harteau]

Hey, that's something I'd never heard about and like learn more and try! I'm trying to imaging what kind of fan and how tiny its diameter, speed, what's holding it in place. Is the piece on it's side, vertical? AC I assume, or powered by a 12v power supply to run for a few months.

Just to be clear, the fan is pulling air away from the opening? Is the fan small enough to fit inside or just rely on some outside air sneaking inside around the opening? How do you hold the fan it in place?

Or does the fan direct air down a tube inside the form and the inside pressure cause the moist air to exit around the tube?

If it's a special fan, where did you get it? Perhaps a small muffin fan or the type used to cool computer processing chips?

Do you have a photo of the fan, positioned and in use? I'd love to see your invention (unless it's in the hands of the patent lawyers! )

JKJ, one of your biggest fans!

This drying box has been working really well for me…
- I have two small computer fans circulating air in a 1 1/2” thick foam box (2ft x 2ft x 4ft). Fans run continuously.
- a 100w bulb providing heat, (set in a ceramic incubator lamp base)
- a 24 hr lamp timer set 15 min on/15 min off to regulate the heat (increase time “on” to increase temp in the box)
- a meat thermometer to monitor the temperatures.

I salvaged fans from an old computer (you can buy new ones very cheap), matched the fan voltage with an old DC adapter for power. The fans are mounted on one end of a piece of 1/4” plywood then attached to the inside corner at an angle. The plywood at an angle serves as a small duct pulling air from one side, exhausting on the other.

The box sides are sealed with tape to hold in the moisture and heat.
The “door” is not sealed, but fits closely with very small amounts of light coming through the cracks, this works as a moisture vent.

I have loaded this up multiple times with a dozen 9” inch wet bowls and dried them in 12 to 18 days.

Lessons learned:
- keep the bowls away from the heat source (100w lamp). 8-10” has been pretty good for me. I also use sheet metal “deflectors”.
- maintaining 100 to 115 degrees F has been working
- I have 10% to 25% failures (cracking) when fully loaded, (l’ve dried maple, cherry, oak, birch, box elder species). Reducing the temperature improves the success, lengthening the time to dry.
- I try to “rotate” the bowls away from the heat once (after the 2nd/3rd day)

Also, I’ve done this on a smaller scale in an old cooler (1-5 bowls at a time)

Happy to provide more details on request,
Tim

 

[John Torchick]

Tim, that is a nice drying box. My only problem is finding a place to put it.

 

[Tom Rice]

You could use some inexpensive solar panels from Amazon,

Amazon.com : SOLPERK 50W/12V Solar Panel Kit, Solar Battery Trickle Charger Maintainer + Waterproof Controller + Adjustable Mount Bracket for Automotive Motorcycle Boat Marine RV Camping Roof : Patio, Lawn & Garden

Amazon.com : SOLPERK 50W/12V Solar Panel Kit, Solar Battery Trickle Charger Maintainer + Waterproof Controller + Adjustable Mount Bracket for Automotive Motorcycle Boat Marine RV Camping Roof : Patio, Lawn & Garden

www.amazon.com

A couple 12v RV batteries from Costco about $80

And one of these

Amazon.com

Add in a small 12v fan for a computer to keep air flowing,

As long as there is a temperature variation from ambient and air flow your “kiln” will work, old fridge is ok,
A nice plywood box with 2” thick foam insulation is better

 

[John K Jordan]

- I have 10% to 25% failures (cracking) when fully loaded, (l’ve dried maple, cherry, oak, birch, box elder species). Reducing the temperature improves the success, lengthening the time to dry.

Got it. Baffles, low heat, controlled air circulation, rotation. Heat/time relationship to failures. I have a box full of old muffin fans, from tiny (CPU) to 4-5" dia.

I have very low fail rate on solid blanks. However they can take a LONG time to dry completely. Room temperature, no added heat, arranged on wire racks, natural air circulation.

JKJ

 

[Tim Harteau]

Tim, that is a nice drying box. My only problem is finding a place to put it.

Hahaha…you know it!

But the nice part is the foam box is “scalable”, make any size you need.

I used the smaller cooler pictured in the 3rd photo for years (this system is also handy for speeding up the curing of my danish oil!).
Then I had an order for 120 bowls with a 7 month notice… yup, had to scramble…

 

[Tim Harteau]

Got it. Baffles, low heat, controlled air circulation, rotation. Heat/time relationship to failures. I have a box full of old muffin fans, from tiny (CPU) to 4-5" dia.

I have very low fail rate on solid blanks. However they can take a LONG time to dry completely. Room temperature, no added heat, arranged on wire racks, natural air circulation.

JKJ

Btw, I like your tag line…. “Turner of wood, mover of dirt, player of music”!

 

[John Torchick]

Tim, power is not a problem, it's floor or wall space.

 

[John K Jordan]

Btw, I like your tag line…. “Turner of wood, mover of dirt, player of music”!

Thanks! I have WAY more than my share of fun. Love playing in the dirt. I'm always amazed at what can be done with even modest equipment.

Had to take down a tall Hackberry tree and dig up the stump while grading to build the shop. It was too big to lift so we flipped it over repeatedly to with the little skid steer to put it into the woods. A few years later there was no trace - it had returned to the earth.



When I have to have a tree taken down I like to remove the stump and roots. If I can dig up around the roots with the excavator and pull/push it over, the stump goes with it. If the tree is large, we cut it down and I dig out the stump. On some stumps I had to dig a huge bowl 6-8' down and pry the roots loose, then roll the stump to where it can rot away.

Sometimes I'll just dig a big hole in the woods and bury it but this one was too big. Took out the tree to build a road up to the horse pasture, wide enough to handle 18' trailers around a curve. The stump was even too big to get out of the hole so after bumping it loose I pushed dirt under the roots on all sides then bumped it more to raise it to the top of the dirt, an inch at a time. I leave a bit extra length on the trunk so I can get enough leverage to work with it. The ground slope was about 40-deg so that made things "interesting."



Grading one area I uncovered the top of a rock. Started digging it up. Yikes.
My son is standing next to the rock for scale. Twas an effort but I finally got it out.



I ask visitors if they want to play with some equipment - lots do! The most enthusiastic seem to be female since for some reason they seldom get the opportunity.



Come visit. Dig a hole, move a rock.

JKJ

 

[Tom Rice]

Thanks! I have WAY more than my share of fun. Love playing in the dirt. I'm always amazed at what can be done with even modest equipment.

Had to take down a tall Hackberry tree and dig up the stump while grading to build the shop. It was too big to lift so we flipped it over repeatedly to with the little skid steer to put it into the woods. A few years later there was no trace - it had returned to the earth.

View attachment 87809

When I have to have a tree taken down I like to remove the stump and roots. If I can dig up around the roots with the excavator and pull/push it over, the stump goes with it. If the tree is large, we cut it down and I dig out the stump. On some stumps I had to dig a huge bowl 6-8' down and pry the roots loose, then roll the stump to where it can rot away.

Sometimes I'll just dig a big hole in the woods and bury it but this one was too big. Took out the tree to build a road up to the horse pasture, wide enough to handle 18' trailers around a curve. The stump was even too big to get out of the hole so after bumping it loose I pushed dirt under the roots on all sides then bumped it more to raise it to the top of the dirt, an inch at a time. I leave a bit extra length on the trunk so I can get enough leverage to work with it. The ground slope was about 40-deg so that made things "interesting."

View attachment 87810

Grading one area I uncovered the top of a rock. Started digging it up. Yikes.
My son is standing next to the rock for scale. Twas an effort but I finally got it out.

View attachment 87811

I ask visitors if they want to play with some equipment - lots do! The most enthusiastic seem to be female since for some reason they seldom get the opportunity.

View attachment 87813

Come visit. Dig a hole, move a rock.

JKJ

I bet the figure in that root ball is awesome, huge hunk o wood

 

[John K Jordan]

I bet the figure in that root ball is awesome, huge hunk o wood

The big stump is y. poplar, not always exciting to people.

I have logs from another poplar tree which was struck by lighting. It has some very interesting purple inside, caused by the lightning. I sawed another poplar log that was so dark the guy told me it was walnut! What beautiful colors inside. I've heard people call lightning-struck poplar "Rainbow Poplar".

I also like to dig up old dogwood stumps from long dead trees. I've found some amazing color and spalting in one from a neighbor's yard. Dug up one from another neighbor, waiting for the pressure washing.

I do have a couple of people here wanting big y.poplar, bigger than that, though - they turn cowboy hats. At the corner of a site I just prepped for a new building I have a poplar to take down that's about 3' DBH. Some turn down their noses at y.poplar with they can get cherry and walnut, etc. But I love turning it - fine grain, cuts and smooths nicely, fairly stable, drys quickly. I cut blanks and dry them.

This is a beads of courage box from y.poplar. I embedded a music box in the lid. Function over form!


Anyone in the area want big poplar - the big tree is coming down soon.

JKJ