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face plate screws

Been using the same stock of stainless sheet metal screws, square drive, button heads, for a very long time now - they’re 1-1/4” and 1-1/2” long. They seem to last forever. My faceplates accept #12 screws.
 
A school district some distance away shut down their industrial arts program because it was too expensive, not pertinent in this age, and the machines are dangerous. I went to the school auction where they sold off all these dangerous machines and bought a couple of lathes with lots of accessories. This was one of them, where was the teacher?

Just for your amusement but they were all 1-1/4" so good to go!DSCF6890.JPG
 
If the faceplate is going on what later is the top of the bowl, then creating a tenon or mortise, reversing the piece and hollowing, the hollowing is removing where the screw holes were, correct? So longer screws are more secure and as long as they don’t impact the hollowing, I’d think that longer screws would provide more security. I’ve got a book by Doc Green “Fixtures and Chucks for Woodturning” on mounting pieces to a lathe and he recommends at least 5 threads into the wood, but I’d imagine the more the better. He recommends longer than 1 1/4 inch for end grain, largest diameter that is practical, avoiding fine thread screws, not over tightening, CA glue in screw holes on occasion, and a large faceplate.
 
Alan Weinberg said:
If the faceplate is going on what later is the top of the bowl, then creating a tenon or mortise, reversing the piece and hollowing, the hollowing is removing where the screw holes were, correct? So longer screws are more secure and as long as they don’t impact the hollowing,
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This is correct but not a practical consideration. With a good faceplate Mount 1.25 screws will hold just fine.
5” lag bolts will hold better but are overkill.
It’s sort or like will a 5 ton jack hold 1.5 ton car up better than a 2 ton jack to change a tire.


Alan Weinberg said:
He recommends longer than 1 1/4 inch for end grain, largest diameter that is practical, avoiding fine thread screws, not over tightening, CA glue in screw holes on occasion, and a large faceplate.
Click to expand...
Screws don’t hold well in endgrain. Here is where you may want the 5” lag screws.
Endgrain - I use spur drive or 4 jaw chuck

The folks I know who turn the 3 + ft tall endgrain hollow forms use the lag 4-5” screws after roughing between centers and turning a slightly concave faceplate Mount.
 
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I rarely use a faceplate but when I do, I use stainless steel, Robertson* head screws. The screw is less likely to break with the harder steel. Also, the drive hole stays usable.
Incidentally, some people countersink the screw holes on the face to accommodate the raised bits of wood when a pilot hole is not drilled first.

*Sometimes called "square-drive".
 
With the fancy cordless drills, I like the old ones. They have a clutch. The purpose of the clutch, to me, is so that you don't over tighten your screws and snap them off. Did that a number of times before I figured out that I should use only enough torque to drive the screw, and not so much that I strip the threaded hole or snap the screw head off. The fancy newer one I use can drive too far. I am getting better acquainted with it and can kind of 'feel' when it is going too hard.... The new ones are so fancy that when they do break down, it is cheaper to buy a new one than to repair the old one....

robo hippy
 
Graham Dolby said:
Incidentally, some people countersink the screw holes on the face to accommodate the raised bits of wood when a pilot hole is not drilled first.
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The first thing I do to a new faceplate is countersink the holes on the face so the dimple expands into that recess when the screw is tightened.

The second thing I do is drill out the hole to 1/4" so I can use standard hex head lag bolts. Strong is good.
 
The length of screw is proportional to the thickness of the wood. If I am turning a plate from 4/4 wood I use 3/4" screws, for most bowls/platters I use 1 1/4". I use hex head screws as I have found the cheap Phillip screws I get where I live (doesn't matter if it's Ace, True Value, Lowes, etc) the heads strip out.
 
I have six Oneway faceplates - all use #14. The spindle is 32mm - maybe the smaller lathes have smaller spindles and use faceplates with smaller holes.
I agree with Lyle - I use 1.25" #14 ss oval head in the center six holes and 1" in the outer twelve. No problem mounting a 400-lb radial (facegrain) log. Of course I'm between centers for initial rounding and shaping - hollowing is cantilevered out from a 6" faceplate. To mount the faceplate the flat on the tenon is dead-nuts flat or a teeny bit concave - I use hinge drills to mark and then an 11/64 with a depth stop for the #14 screws
Only time I use a steady-rest is on a tall axial grain but then I use a chuck.
The reason for the 1" on the outer holes is the base on all my pieces is a bit under 4" - to accomplish that from a 6" tenon, last step before sanding/finishing is to remove the 1" and dive under to make the tenon maybe 3" dia.
COMMENT: Use a depth-stop when drilling - you don't want twelve little holes to contend with. When it's going to be tight, I have some 1" with the tips ground off - again, those twelve little divots will ruin your day
 
I like Spax torx head screws. I've never broken, bent, or stripped one; the only time they get replaced is when one mysteriously disappears. (When I find the hundreds of lost pencils in my shop I'll probably also find a stash of missing screws) The current set has probably done 50-60 bowls, many starting with 20-25" log sections. I've never pre-drilled a hole, I put them in with an impact driver.
 
When I started turning over 50 yrs ago my first lathe came with a face plate that had counter sunk holes.
On face plates that I have since bought I have counter sunk the holes. I have used all lengths of screws from 1 inch 25mm to 13/4 inch 60mm. It all depends on what you are turning. When I use the small screws it is usually on 25mm wood but I bring the tail stock up to it with a throw away piece that I turn down to fit the chuck
When I turn the piece around I fill the holes with dust glue mix then turn the wood to shape .You can not see the screw holes so I would suggest that you use screws to suit the job DO NOT use CHEAP screws as they are usually made in China and are of poor quality.
Good luck and enjoy your turning
 
Alan Weinberg said:
not sure which one: https://spax.us/products
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For your axminster faceplate ring you want a #9 countersunk (4.5mm). This is what axminster told me after I emailed them. #10 you can see just a little light between the screw and the chuck preventing it from registering correctly. I use the spax on mine after I figured out that like someone else said, the phillips head I found most places kept stripping out.
 
Larry Copas said:
A school district some distance away shut down their industrial arts program because it was too expensive, not pertinent in this age, and the machines are dangerous. I went to the school auction where they sold off all these dangerous machines and bought a couple of lathes with lots of accessories. This was one of them, where was the teacher?

Just for your amusement but they were all 1-1/4" so good to go!View attachment 55051
Click to expand...
I’ve never done that, lol!!
 
Roger Wiegand said:
I like Spax torx head screws. I've never broken, bent, or stripped one; the only time they get replaced is when one mysteriously disappears. (When I find the hundreds of lost pencils in my shop I'll probably also find a stash of missing screws) The current set has probably done 50-60 bowls, many starting with 20-25" log sections. I've never pre-drilled a hole, I put them in with an impact driver.
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What diameter and length? I am always on the lookout for #14 or #12, 1-1/4 or 1/1/2, and although Spax makes them, I don't see them in the big box stores except for much longer lengths. Amazon has them but they sell five-box lots for $80, nothing smaller. Where did you find yours?
 
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Chuck,
No doubt Denver has a "hardware" store - one that has multiple aisles of those little pull-out boxes.
Stainless steel sheet metal screws, either flat or oval head (oval head gives more bite for the screwdriver). And get both a #3 phillips screwdriver and a 3 or 4-inch #3 bit for your drill. And while your at it, a 11/64 drill and a drill-stop that goes on the drill bit. Also, you'll be hugging yourself if you get a set of hinge drills to get starter holes exact.

No doubt my "worth doing/worth doing to excess" motto is apparent. But I put large green logs on the lathe that can weigh 200-lbs when shaped and ready for hollowing. With a dead-nuts flat tenon and pre=drilled screw holes, I've never had a piece come off and I never use a steady rest.

Takes maybe an hour to mount a faceplate - same amount of time it takes some of the heavy-duties to start/complete/finish a bowl and begin another.
 

The screw you use with faceplates

Most turners know better than to use sheetrock screws when mounting wood to a faceplate. Ive also had my share of deck screws snap off on me.Then I found a box of screws at Home Depot that looked like a better choice, concrete screws. The brand I found is Tapcon by ITW Brands. The minimal shear...
www.aawforum.org www.aawforum.org
If this doesnt work search the title of the thread under my name.
 
Apologies for the pedantic answer:
ASSUMING A RADIAL (FACE-GRAIN) TURNING:
  • I start all pieces between centers with a 1.5" spur drive in a shallow 1.5" Forstner hole - only when achieving "gallery ready" shape do I put it on the faceplate - I stay between centers for final rounding
  • 1.25" on the six inside holes and, if the tenon is too short, 1" on the twelve outside holes. If tenon length allows, 1.25" in all eighteen - I try for a 1" tenon length
  • The reason for the shorter screws in a short tenon is: My base is typically 3" to 3.5" - to do that with a 6" faceplate means you have to "dive under" (see pics) - want to avoid a circle of screw holes
  • Oneway 6" is all I use - it takes a #14
  • SS sheet metal oval head, a #3 drill insert and #3 big hand-held for final tightening
  • Holes are drilled with 11/64 with a drill stop - starter holes are done with a cabinet bit
  • The tenon must be dead-nuts flat or maybe a teeny concave
Cantilevering a big piece can't be taken lightly - I hear they hurt when flying off

ASSUMING AN AXIAL TURNING (typically a tall vase design): I use a chuck and a big steady rest - no need for a faceplate
 

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I start most of my work (bowls, 1st turning wet wood) on a faceplate). 1 1/4 or 1 1/2“ #12 (or #10) sheet metal screws are just fine- 8 screws total. No predrilling, no exotic screws. Usually a #3 Phillips head, or #2 in the case of the #10 screws. Just plain steel.
Ive never broken a screws, and use the same ones for 20 or more bowls.

The thing is, and what makes it work is by using an impact driver to set and remove. An impact driver puts far less stress on the screw, screw head and wood than does a drill or even by hand. It’s because of the way it ‘bumps’ the screw around. Think of pulling the tablecloth out from under the plates. This method is so easy, so quick and so much more effective than exotic screws and methods.

If you’ve never used one before, try it out first,,get used to how the tools works. It’s a reactionless tool, so you can’t actually feel how tight you’re making things, unlike a drill. You can snap every screw if you fail to release the trigger in time. And NEVER use impact on things like chuck screws.

(I was a mechanic/machinist for 35 years, so an impact tool is quite familiar to me. How tight something should be was jokingly express as the number of “ba-dat-a-dats” from your zip gun (impact wrench))
 
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John Tisdale said:
Apologies for the pedantic answer:
ASSUMING A RADIAL (FACE-GRAIN) TURNING:
  • I start all pieces between centers with a 1.5" spur drive in a shallow 1.5" Forstner hole - only when achieving "gallery ready" shape do I put it on the faceplate - I stay between centers for final rounding
  • 1.25" on the six inside holes and, if the tenon is too short, 1" on the twelve outside holes. If tenon length allows, 1.25" in all eighteen - I try for a 1" tenon length
  • The reason for the shorter screws in a short tenon is: My base is typically 3" to 3.5" - to do that with a 6" faceplate means you have to "dive under" (see pics) - want to avoid a circle of screw holes
  • Oneway 6" is all I use - it takes a #14
  • SS sheet metal oval head, a #3 drill insert and #3 big hand-held for final tightening
  • Holes are drilled with 11/64 with a drill stop - starter holes are done with a cabinet bit
  • The tenon must be dead-nuts flat or maybe a teeny concave
Cantilevering a big piece can't be taken lightly - I hear they hurt when flying off

ASSUMING AN AXIAL TURNING (typically a tall vase design): I use a chuck and a big steady rest - no need for a faceplate
Click to expand...
I’m fairly new at this so forgive the neophyte questions. I don’t fully understand your setup. I’ve used a faceplate on what is to be the vessel top, turned a tenon on bottom, and shaped vessel, then flipped it around to grip by tenon while hollowing.

It looks like you are placing a faceplate directly on your tenon. How then did you grip the vessel to create the tenon (between centers?) and why place the faceplate through the tenon?

And in the last picture I see only 4 screws, not 18.
 
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Alan Weinberg said:
I’m fairly new at this so forgive the neophyte questions. I don’t fully understand your setup. I’ve used a faceplate on what is to be the vessel top, turned a tenon on bottom, and shaped vessel, then flipped it around to grip by tenon while hollowing.

It looks like you are placing a faceplate directly on your tenon. How then did you grip the vessel to create the tenon (between centers?) and why place the faceplate through the tenon?
Click to expand...

This is what sharing is about. We were all new at turning once.

I put a spur drive in the center of the opening. Bring up the tailstock to hold the piece between centers.
Turn the outside and the tenon or the faceplate Mount.

Here is 7 minutes from a hollowform demo where I show the faceplate Mount.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o4l092k8qk
 
so basically one “wastes” an inch or so of the blank (a little more than screw length) in order to create a tenon into which the faceplate is screwed, later turning off that tenon when the bottom of the piece is turned—and the tenon is not used to mount the piece in a four jaw chuck. Is that correct?

I have only used the tenon to be gripped by a chuck, never saw it used to hold a faceplate. I liked keeping the nub to fit inside the spindle. Nice video. Thanks.
 
Alan Weinberg said:
so basically one “wastes” an inch or so of the blank (a little more than screw length) in order to create a tenon into which the faceplate is screwed, later turning off that tenon when the bottom of the piece is turned—and the tenon is not used to mount the piece in a four jaw chuck. Is that correct?

I have only used the tenon to be gripped by a chuck, never saw it used to hold a faceplate. I liked keeping the nub to fit inside the spindle. Nice video. Thanks.
Click to expand...

When I use a faceplate, it's for bowls where I want to mount the blank in order to create the tenon on the other side. The screw holes are in the "interior" of what will be the finished bowl and are turned away in the regular course of hollowing. I don't use a faceplate for spindle work.
 
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