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Finishing salad bowls

I was in the gourmet grocery today. I checked out the oils used for sautéing they were all refined which means the proteins were removed to raise the smoke point. The oils for eating were not refined.

Many years ago there was some bad press here in the UK about many common cooking oils. The only one deemed safe at the time was pure Olive Oil. Another one added to the list was Avocado Oil. Butter and Ghee (clarified butter) are also regarded as good for cooking along with animal fats.
More recently all seed oils have been cited by some as being particularly unhealthy.

We’ve only been using Olive Oil or Butter for cooking for over 35 years now. Obviously when you eat out in restaurants you can’t really avoid seed oils.
 
Many years ago there was some bad press here in the UK about many common cooking oils. The only one deemed safe at the time was pure Olive Oil. Another one added to the list was Avocado Oil. Butter and Ghee (clarified butter) are also regarded as good for cooking along with animal fats.
More recently all seed oils have been cited by some as being particularly unhealthy.

We’ve only been using Olive Oil or Butter for cooking for over 35 years now. Obviously when you eat out in restaurants you can’t really avoid seed oils.

When you get into the bioenergetics of exactly how oils are used by our cells, polyunsaturated fatty acids, PUFAs, or "seed oils", are pretty bad. These include the vaunted Omega-3, -6 and -9 (which really just refers to the bond from the methyl end of the lipid at which the first double bond occurs, there are actually many PUFAs that meet the criteria for each, and others.) They are very reactive with oxygen, and will often spontaneously oxidize even in your blood stream (thanks to all those double C-bonds!), releasing what are usually toxic metabolites. In cells, in the ER, their initial stages of oxidation can still sometimes produce toxic metabolites, and overall the metabolization of fatty acids produces more ROS (reactive oxygen species) as well. Saturated fats, like butter, don't oxidize arbitrarily, are far more stable, and generally require less complex metabolizing reactions requiring fewer enzymes than polyunsaturated (or even monounsaturated, which still has to go through a couple of extra enzymes and still runs the potential risk of arbitrary oxidization.)

Interestingly, the reason why polyunsaturated oils aren't really good for humans, is probably also why they are good for finishes. Linseed, walnut, tung, etc. oils are seed oils, thus polyunsaturated fatty acids. That means they have fairly long chains (carbon chains) with at least two or more double C-bonds, which is where the oxidation occurs, and which can serve as junction points for polymerization. Longer chain polyunsaturated fatty acids will usually have more of these double bonds, and should therefor polymerize more and with ultimately longer chains and more cross-linking.

I would still, however, want the oil to be refined and not contain any proteins. As they will break down, especially under UV light. I guess I can't say for sure how that might ultimately affect the finish, but I certainly wouldn't want to eat out of something that had a bunch of bound up fragmented proteins and broken down amino acids and such... O_o
 
Geez folks. Give me a cheeseburger fresh off the grill, tomato salad, fresh corn on the cob drenched in butter, and a cold beer. And a big slice of cherry pie al la mode to top it off. I promise there will be nothing left but the cob to put in the compost pile.
 
Well, I don't eat them after they have festered for...months, or years... :rolleyes:
Proteins don't fester. They breakdown. I to amino acids and derivatives. Your body happily turns these things over constantly. Things that fester are small molecules like polyamines. Your fear of proteins is entirely unwarranted.
 
Many years ago there was some bad press here in the UK about many common cooking oils. The only one deemed safe at the time was pure Olive Oil. Another one added to the list was Avocado Oil. Butter and Ghee (clarified butter) are also regarded as good for cooking along with animal fats.
More recently all seed oils have been cited by some as being particularly unhealthy.
Apparently, the idea that seed oils are unhealthy originated with a 'health' blogger, then it got picked up and amplified on social media, to the point that it has become widely accepted. The evidence doesn't support this idea. Here's a comment from Johns Hopkins School of Public Health:
Some wellness influencers warn against consuming seed oils, blaming them for a range of health problems and characterizing them as toxic. Scientific studies consistently show otherwise.
 
Apparently, the idea that seed oils are unhealthy originated with a 'health' blogger, then it got picked up and amplified on social media, to the point that it has become widely accepted. The evidence doesn't support this idea. Here's a comment from Johns Hopkins School of Public Health:
Some wellness influencers warn against consuming seed oils, blaming them for a range of health problems and characterizing them as toxic. Scientific studies consistently show otherwise.

It’s not at all uncommon for “Scientific” studies to be commissioned by those that benefit from the expected outcome. Bias is everywhere, even in scientific studies it seems. How many times have products been “perfectly safe” before eventually being banned on public health grounds. Teflon coatings for example, and how long did it take to get Lead removed from paint and petrol?!

World wide, seed oils are a multi billion dollar industry, they aren’t going anywhere without a fight that’s for sure. I’m sticking with cold pressed unfiltered Olive Oil and butter for the time being, but if anyone wants to consume highly processed seed oils extracted with petroleum distillates that’s their choice.
 
Proteins don't fester. They breakdown. I to amino acids and derivatives. Your body happily turns these things over constantly. Things that fester are small molecules like polyamines. Your fear of proteins is entirely unwarranted.

They do if bacteria are consuming them.

Further, when cooking, proteins don't actually break down. They denature. This is the disruption of weak bonds, which results in structural changes, however the proteins remain in tact, at least with proper cooking. You aren't eating broken down proteins, and certainly not proteins that are being consumed by bacteria.

The concern I have, is with proteins in the finish, especially on something you are going to eat out of, its food for bacteria. Then, YES, the proteins in your bowl WILL FESTER and ROT. This isn't rocket science.
 
Apparently, the idea that seed oils are unhealthy originated with a 'health' blogger, then it got picked up and amplified on social media, to the point that it has become widely accepted. The evidence doesn't support this idea. Here's a comment from Johns Hopkins School of Public Health:
Some wellness influencers warn against consuming seed oils, blaming them for a range of health problems and characterizing them as toxic. Scientific studies consistently show otherwise.

The science actually does show that fat burning produces more toxic metabolites, and that polyunsaturated fats produce more toxic metabolites outside of the proper chain of enzymes that are designed to oxidize fats purposely for ATP generation. If you look into the actual chemistry involved in our metabolism, the dangers of burning fats as a primary energy source, as well as the added consequences of primarily burning polyunsaturated fats (seed oils) becomes clear.

Fats are a slow burn fuel. They sustain us through fasting (which we do every night), slim times, etc. They are not a high-burn source of fuel. Less ATP is generated in a given unit time by burning fats, than when burning carbs.

Our bodies, well, our cells, run on ATP. ATP is produced in mitochondria, by processing Acetyl-CoA in the Citric Acid Cycle (often called the Krebs Cycle.) Many source compounds can be processed through various enzymes to produce Acecyl-CoA. The primary fuel for producing this, and thus producing ATP, is glucose, and secondarily fructose. We produce far more ATP from these, than anything else. Fats can also be converted into Acetyl-CoA through more complex processes involving many enzymes, but the process is slower, produces less ATP. We can also produce Acetyl-CoA from proteins and even base pairs (i.e. our DNA)...which generally only really occurs when we are starving.

While both carb and fat burning produce Acetyl-CoA which then enters the mitochondria to produce ATP, the byproducts of turning carbs vs. fats into Acecyl-CoA differ. Burning carbs is cleaner, maintains the necessary secondary compounds NECESSARY to keep our mitochondria producing ATP at a high rate (and this is critical, when ATP production lowers everything in our bodies suffers). These compounds include NADH, FADH2, and CO2. CO2 is not just a byproduct of metabolism, its actually a critical component of sustaining the necessary reactions and charge gradient in our mitochondria and keeping the ETC (electron transport chain) moving. The key trait, actually, is the RATIOS of FADH2/NADH. Burning carbs maintains these compounds in the proper balance, burning fats does not (the ratio is higher with fat burning). Burning fats, because these secondary compounds end up imbalanced, then tends to produce a GREATER amount of ROS (reactive oxygen species). Fat metabolism tends to create what is often termed a "traffic jam" in the ETC (electron transport chain), particularly at Complex I. This slows the process, reduces the rate of production of ATP, and in the long run leads to increased production of ROS.

There is always some ROS production, which antioxidants generally sweep up, but when ROS production becomes excessive, then those very species will begin to break down our mitochondria themselves, which in the long run will cause severe problems. So just on its face, burning fats is less effective, less efficient, and long term will produce more damaging compounds to our mitochondria and cells, than burning carbs. Our cells were primarily designed to burn carbs, not fats. This is born out in the chemistry, and the fundamental necessity of a high rate of ATP production for our cells to remain healthy and vital.

The problem with polyunsaturated fats, is that their double bonds allow them to be arbitrarily oxidized, pretty much anywhere. Where saturated fats are far more stable, and will generally be oxidized initially in the ER (endoplasmic reticulum) before those metabolites get shuttled off to the micochondrial matrix for beta-oxidation, polyunsaturated fats are unstable. Arbitrary oxidation of PUFA will often leave fragments of the HC tail behind. These fragments are usually highly reactive, and when your blood stream is full of them, they can cause a significant amount of damage. These toxins can enter other tissues as well and cause additional problems.

Another issue with polysunsaturated fats is they are ill-suited for membrane structures. Polyunsaturated fats tend to be long chain fatty acids, and the double bonds make them weak and "floppy." When used to build membranes, those membranes tend to be weak as well as highly porous, allowing compounds to leak through them outside of the explicit dedicated channels designed for compound transport (i.e. Vacuoles or enzymes embedded in the membrane.) When used for the membranes of mitochondria, they allow electrons and protons (H+) to leak through the membrane. A charge gradient between the mitochondrial matrix (inner membrane space) and the inter-membrane space, is ESSENTIAL to the proper operation of ATPSynthase, the enzyme responsible for actual production of ATP from ADP. The ETC, electron transport chain, enzymes are embedded in the inner membrane, and act as a pump for electrons, transferring them from the inter-membrane space to the inner membrane space. Negative charge, electrons, accumulates in the inner membrane space or "matrix" while H+ ions (protons) accumulate in the inter-membrane space. When our primary source of fats is polyunsaturated, those fats are used during cell division and the genesis of mitochondria for their membranes. Polyunsaturated fats are highly permeable, and when they are the primary or even sole lipid used in mitochondrial membranes, the charge gradient will degrade or even disappear, at which point ATP production STOPS. I shouldn't have to explain how bad that is...

So, sorry...the science, the actual chemistry, absolutely points to seed oils being detrimental and even dangerous for human consumption in anything beyond very minor quantities. There are actually a multitude of reasons why seed oils, polyunsaturated fats, PUFA, are not only not healthy, but dangerous and ultimately deadly, if we consume too much, fail to consume saturated fats (which are NOT bad, in fact they are VASTLY more healthy than polyunsaturated fats for humans!! See the Rat vs. Human Disparity Conundrum in scientific testing!), and fail to consume carbohydrates in sufficient quantity given they are by far the best source of fuel to produce ATP compared to alternatives (fats, proteins, DNA).

NADH vs. FADH2

NADH and FADH2 are both electron carriers that donate electrons at the electron transport chain (ETC), allowing for the production of ATP. NADH donates electrons at complex I of the ETC, whereas FADH2 donates electrons at complex II, and these complexes compete for the same electron acceptor, ubiquinone.

Glucose oxidation produces around 25% more NADH and half as much FADH2 as fat oxidation. Together, this leads to a ratio of FADH2 to NADH that is around 2.5 times lower than that of fat oxidation (9, 10). This difference has substantial effects that extend throughout the processes of mitochondrial respiration.

Because FADH2 donates electrons at complex II, downstream of complex I, it reduces the amount of ubiquinone available to accept electrons at complex I, leading to a buildup of electrons at complex I. This results in two major problems.

For one, this increases the electron leakage at complex I, which increases the production of ROS, specifically superoxide (9, 10, 11).

ROS are a major cause of cellular oxidative stress, and as I’ve already mentioned, damage the cell and inhibit energy production.

Second, the buildup of electrons at complex I reduces the donation of electrons by NADH, leading to a buildup of NADH and a decrease in the ratio of NAD+ to NADH (9, 10, 11, 12).

The ratio of NAD+ to NADH is a major controller of mitochondrial respiration and is also tied to aging, cancer, diabetes, neurodegeneration, and many other diseases (13, 14, 15).

A low NAD+/NADH ratio inhibits isocitrate dehydrogenase (IDH), the rate-limiting step of the TCA cycle (aka Krebs or citric acid cycle). This slows down the activity of the TCA cycle and leads to a buildup of citrate, which inhibits phosphofructokinase (PFK), the rate-limiting step of glycolysis, while also causing a buildup of ACoA (11).

The low NAD+/NADH ratio also inhibits pyruvate dehydrogenase (PDH), the rate-limiting-step that connects glycolysis to the TCA cycle, and the buildup of ACoA further inhibits PDH (11). This directs pyruvate towards lactate rather than ACoA.

The inhibition of glucose oxidation by fat oxidation through these mechanisms is a feature of the Randle cycle and is responsible for the insulin resistance seen in response to high-fat meals and diets (16). This is, of course, an adaptive response to using fat for fuel and is not a problem per se.

However, in this state, glycolysis is inhibited to a lesser degree than PDH, resulting in an increased production of lactate which can cause problems of its own (11, 17, 18). And, the decrease in the NAD+/NADH ratio still reduces the activity of the TCA cycle through the inhibition of IDH, which slows energy production.

Overall, fat oxidation drastically reduces the efficiency of energy production, causing much less energy to be produced while increasing ROS production, which has a damaging and destabilizing effect (11, 19).

I'll leave it here. This isnt' really the forum for this. However, there is a lot of bad, old science. Some science is conducted well, some science is not, and some science is twisted to confirm the preconceived notions of an agenda. There is a lot of recent science that very clearly demonstrates the problems with modern, seed-oil infused diets. Such as the snippet above. There NEEDS to be a deeper discussion of seed oils and how radically detrimental they are to human health. Not at some abstract level, but at the core level of the ACTUAL CHEMISTRY and the fundamental nature of cellular function in a human being. The entire western world is unhealthy, and getting unhealthier. One of the primary reasons for that, is seed oils. Its not the sole reason, but its a HUGE reason. Find the right science, and be enlightened. 🤷‍♂️
 
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They do if bacteria are consuming them.

Further, when cooking, proteins don't actually break down. They denature. This is the disruption of weak bonds, which results in structural changes, however the proteins remain in tact, at least with proper cooking. You aren't eating broken down proteins, and certainly not proteins that are being consumed by bacteria.

The concern I have, is with proteins in the finish, especially on something you are going to eat out of, its food for bacteria. Then, YES, the proteins in your bowl WILL FESTER and ROT. This isn't rocket science.
No, they breakdown. Certainly they do denture, but peptide bonds are actually quite labile. I am a biochemist so I have a fair bit of background in such things.

In my opinion, your concerns are still valid, but really only in the immunogenic sense. The concentration of proteins in a finish aren't likely to be high enough to foster bacteria growth.
 
I like to use a Sutherland Welles product called "Millie's All Purpose Penetrating Tung Oil" for food contact pieces. It consists of polymerized tung oil, beeswax and citrus solvent, with no added driers. It cures relatively fast, has a mild sheen and holds up well to regular use.
 
I like to use a Sutherland Welles product called "Millie's All Purpose Penetrating Tung Oil" for food contact pieces. It consists of polymerized tung oil, beeswax and citrus solvent, with no added driers. It cures relatively fast, has a mild sheen and holds up well to regular use.
Thanks. I've been looking at their products. A little on the spendy side. I read that Leo Van loo also uses their tung oil.
 
Thanks. I've been looking at their products. A little on the spendy side. I read that Leo Van loo also uses their tung oil.
I've been using tung oil for pretty much everything I make. Sutherland Welles full gloss interior is my favorite. You can change the gloss by how much you reduce it and how many coats you put on. I use food grade orange oil to reduce it. I've tried other brands to save money, but they don't seem to cure as fast. The ones I bought and don't like will probably get painted on my trailer floor.
 
No, they breakdown. Certainly they do denture, but peptide bonds are actually quite labile. I am a biochemist so I have a fair bit of background in such things.

In my opinion, your concerns are still valid, but really only in the immunogenic sense. The concentration of proteins in a finish aren't likely to be high enough to foster bacteria growth.

Hmm, my own research has shown a bit different. Maybe we are talking cross each other, as when I say break down, I mean the amino acid chains of the proteins are actually breaking down and fragmenting, leaving you with bits and pieces of a protein, not a protein that is still largely in tact, but otherwise no longer functional. There are changes that proteins go through when cooked, but they are more on the denatured side of things, where the chains of aminos are still largely in tact, but the structure of the protein has changed. Cooking is kind of beside the point here, though. :P Cooking effectively renders proteins edible, whereas what I was thinking of was legitimate rot, via more complete breakdown of the proteins into fragments, and consumption by bacteria (or fungi) and the ultimate waste products from them.

Also contrary to my own research which wasn't too long ago, proteins in oils, when used as a wood finish, will hamper the oil producing a good finish. For one, proteins in an oil can actually accelerate rancidification. So the proteins won't just be a problem themselves, they can reduce the quality of the lipids as well. Proteins affect the oxidation of the lipids, reducing the amount of polymerization that will occur, so you don't get as strong a finish. They also disrupt the formation of a good surface film, so the finish is not as sealing as it otherwise could be. Long term because of these disruptions, oils with proteins in them used as finishes are not guaranteed to last as long, and can break down due to the poor polymerization and weaker surface film. One source I remember reading states that unrefined oils used as finishes can ultimately flake off and degrade, to the point where they don't really provide much protection.

On the contrary, refined oils have usually been filtered, removing the proteins, leaving primarily just the oil (lipids) behind, which then are able to polymerize quite well, and the pure oils will generate a nicer surface film that better seals the wood in the long run, after enough coats.

Hence my concern, about proteins in oils used as a finish. The finish isn't really going to totally seal the proteins in, and they are proteins, food for things like bacteria and fungus, and can break down due to UV exposure and such. So, IMO, unrefined oils really don't make for a good finish, and if we are talking food safety, its certainly something to consider.
 
I've been using tung oil for pretty much everything I make. Sutherland Welles full gloss interior is my favorite. You can change the gloss by how much you reduce it and how many coats you put on. I use food grade orange oil to reduce it. I've tried other brands to save money, but they don't seem to cure as fast. The ones I bought and don't like will probably get painted on my trailer floor.
I use their polymerized tung oil also and really like it.
 
There are common themes, truths, expressed in this thread. Mineral oil, wax (any wax), and combinations thereof, are not permanent. They should be considered cosmetic treatment. Mineral oil makes the grain look good, but it never cures, and whatever it comes in contact with it (food, like salad dressings, or soaps) will remove it. Mineral oil is not an ingredient in any food recipe I've ever made. Wax application, either alone or blended with oil, is a surface treatment, wax molecules simply don't, can't, penetrate enough to be permanent. Proper application, and the final buffing step (by hand or machine), removes +99% of the wax you applied. If you insist on wax, a pure curing oil and wax blend (such as my preferred Tried & True Original, a linseed oil/beeswax blend) will be longer lasting because the cured-in-the-fibers linseed oil isn't going to wash away. Yep, the wax component will go away from the surface after awhile, but the linseed oil component, after 30 days of curing time (no pure oils cure to a solid in a few days), remains within the wood fibers (shallow depth, no oil finish penetrates to the center in typical applications) and cures to a solid from exposure to oxygen. Sure, it helps seal the surface a bit, but its first and greatest benefit is cosmetic.

Peronally...
I'd skip wax products altogether, and no mineral oil, either. Tried & True Danish Oil is straight, pure linseed oil, no wax, my choice. Or, skip finishes altogether and just let time and food/utinsel contact finish the wood for you. Ask yourself, is this a utility piece, or an art piece? Choose one. Time and use can be beautiful finishes in themselves.

Keep an eye on your segmented sections. Time, use, water, etc. may stress the different woods from each other with utility use (not as an art piece).
Question: Any thoughts on drying time and polishing T&T Danish Oil? I live in arid Denver and tried wet sanding to 400 on olive wood yesterday. I love the natural look of the bowl, but I feel customers prefer a slight luster. I have brought the bowl inside to cure, as the shop is 50 degrees and there is no circulating air in the drying cabinet. I have used TT original and had really nice results; however, I am wanting to explore wet sanding at the moment. I like that with wet sanding, I can fill the wood pores and, hopefully, get both more protection and more luster. Thanks for any input you can share.
 
Question: Any thoughts on drying time and polishing T&T Danish Oil?

Much depends on the environment (temperatre, etc) and the type of wood.

I do often wet sand with "danish" oil before starting my finishing procedure. Start with a fairly coarse grit like 320 to force oil soaked sawdust into the pores.

J have never used T&T but if it's like other "danish" oil (Watco, home brew, etc) my procedure for years has been:
  • Apply and keep applying the "oil" until no more will soak into the wood. Let sit for a 1/2 hour or so then wipe off. (Some will actually soak some types of particularly porous wood in liquid "danish" oil in a plastic bag. Sometimes wet sand with 600 grit or 0000 steel wool. My sanding is always by hand if that matters. Let dry at least overnight.
  • Sometime the next day apply another coat, again reapply to spots where it is still soaking in. Wipe off after about 1/2 hour. Let dry overnight.
  • Repeat for 6 to 10 days depending.
  • If polishing is desired, wait at least another week, maybe two.
I usually prefer a soft sheen instead of a gloss so I may or may not buff. Lightly rubbed with Liberon 0000 steel wool followed by padding with pumice and maybe even rottonstone.

This procedure is not for the impatient or those in a time crunch. If in a rush I might apply more thinner coats during one day.
Note that my shop is temperature and humidity controlled - a different environment might require a different method.
I've used this on wood from relatively soft fine-grained but porous Eastern Red Cedar to very hard coarser grain wood and many woods in between. I'm finishing some pieces from Persimmon (White Ebony) this way now. Things from small spindles to 20" platters.

I know there are MANY other useful methods.
One, if I want enhanced durability is finishing with TruOil.

I don't do salad bowls so can't contribute to that discussion.

JKJ
 
Question: Any thoughts on drying time and polishing T&T Danish Oil? I live in arid Denver and tried wet sanding to 400 on olive wood yesterday. I love the natural look of the bowl, but I feel customers prefer a slight luster. I have brought the bowl inside to cure, as the shop is 50 degrees and there is no circulating air in the drying cabinet. I have used TT original and had really nice results; however, I am wanting to explore wet sanding at the moment. I like that with wet sanding, I can fill the wood pores and, hopefully, get both more protection and more luster. Thanks for any input you can share.
Here is info from the T&T Website. It seems only 8 hours is required as long as it is applied according to their procedure.

Danish Oil Application Instructions​

For all INTERIOR woodworking​

  • Apply a very thin coat across entire piece with a lint-free cloth at room temperature. DO NOT USE A BRUSH! A dry to wet color change in the wood should occur, but at no point should there be any puddling. A little bit of finish will go a long way!
  • Allow Danish Oil to penetrate the wood for a minimum of 5 minutes.
  • Rub in briskly with a lint-free cloth until the surface is completely dry. DO THIS BEFORE YOU LET THE PIECE CURE! Drying/curing issues will occur if this step is ignored! If little or no residue comes up on the clean cloth during this step, then you have used the correct amount of finish.
  • Allow the piece to cure for a minimum of 8 hours.
  • Burnish with a soft cloth or 0000 steel wool BEFORE EVERY COAT (even the first and last.) The more you rub the surface, the better the sheen will look.
 
Much depends on the environment (temperatre, etc) and the type of wood.

I do often wet sand with "danish" oil before starting my finishing procedure. Start with a fairly coarse grit like 320 to force oil soaked sawdust into the pores.

J have never used T&T but if it's like other "danish" oil (Watco, home brew, etc) my procedure for years has been:
  • Apply and keep applying the "oil" until no more will soak into the wood. Let sit for a 1/2 hour or so then wipe off. (Some will actually soak some types of particularly porous wood in liquid "danish" oil in a plastic bag. Sometimes wet sand with 600 grit or 0000 steel wool. My sanding is always by hand if that matters. Let dry at least overnight.
  • Sometime the next day apply another coat, again reapply to spots where it is still soaking in. Wipe off after about 1/2 hour. Let dry overnight.
  • Repeat for 6 to 10 days depending.
  • If polishing is desired, wait at least another week, maybe two.
I usually prefer a soft sheen instead of a gloss so I may or may not buff. Lightly rubbed with Liberon 0000 steel wool followed by padding with pumice and maybe even rottonstone.

This procedure is not for the impatient or those in a time crunch. If in a rush I might apply more thinner coats during one day.
Note that my shop is temperature and humidity controlled - a different environment might require a different method.
I've used this on wood from relatively soft fine-grained but porous Eastern Red Cedar to very hard coarser grain wood and many woods in between. I'm finishing some pieces from Persimmon (White Ebony) this way now. Things from small spindles to 20" platters.

I know there are MANY other useful methods.
One, if I want enhanced durability is finishing with TruOil.

I don't do salad bowls so can't contribute to that discussion.

JKJ
John, thanks for your thoughtful reply. I am not as patient as you. Your process is quite elaborate for someone who wants to just make a run of "production" salad bowls, but I can imagine some nice results. For a faster finish, I may try burnishing after initial curing with 0000 steel wool, or perhaps buffing with the Beal system. Your input on starting with 320 grit is helpful, and adding TruOil to one more thing for me to try.
Of note, I was supplying five galleries with my turnings 25 years ago. I was not as sensitive to or concerned about toxins. At that time, I believe I was thinning Laquer 50/50, letting it dry for five min., dry-sanding it, then wet-sanding with a hefty coat. Followed by the buffing. That is, I think that is what I used to do. LOL. Memory is just not perfect. Thanks again for your input.
 
John, thanks for your thoughtful reply. I am not as patient as you. Your process is quite elaborate for someone who wants to just make a run of "production" salad bowls, but I can imagine some nice results. For a faster finish, I may try burnishing after initial curing with 0000 steel wool, or perhaps buffing with the Beal system. Your input on starting with 320 grit is helpful, and adding TruOil to one more thing for me to try.
Of note, I was supplying five galleries with my turnings 25 years ago. I was not as sensitive to or concerned about toxins. At that time, I believe I was thinning Laquer 50/50, letting it dry for five min., dry-sanding it, then wet-sanding with a hefty coat. Followed by the buffing. That is, I think that is what I used to do. LOL. Memory is just not perfect. Thanks again for your input.
PS. Your name has shown up several times. JKJ(RIP) was a friend. Always nice to see your name.
 
Here is info from the T&T Website. It seems only 8 hours is required as long as it is applied according to their procedure.

Danish Oil Application Instructions​

For all INTERIOR woodworking​

  • Apply a very thin coat across entire piece with a lint-free cloth at room temperature. DO NOT USE A BRUSH! A dry to wet color change in the wood should occur, but at no point should there be any puddling. A little bit of finish will go a long way!
  • Allow Danish Oil to penetrate the wood for a minimum of 5 minutes.
  • Rub in briskly with a lint-free cloth until the surface is completely dry. DO THIS BEFORE YOU LET THE PIECE CURE! Drying/curing issues will occur if this step is ignored! If little or no residue comes up on the clean cloth during this step, then you have used the correct amount of finish.
  • Allow the piece to cure for a minimum of 8 hours.
  • Burnish with a soft cloth or 0000 steel wool BEFORE EVERY COAT (even the first and last.) The more you rub the surface, the better the sheen will look.
Rule #1 shall not be violated! The rest as well.

Building a heat box/kiln is a good idea, too, to help speed aling the oil finishes. From renowned wood carver David Fisher, I posted this previously. Explore his site, wonderdul work.
 
PS. Your name has shown up several times. JKJ(RIP) was a friend. Always nice to see your name.

The "other" John Jordan woodturner, the famous one, was a friend too. (BTW, he wasn't JKJ - I think his middle initial was "R" but I can't remember - always called him JJ.) We've been confused often - people have sent me things for him and to him for me, but no one ever sent me his money! I think John's birthday was a month earlier than mine so I always called him the old man. :)

The last photo I took of him was at a NC symposium a few years back. Frank Penta set up a lathe in the vendor area and Frank and I were taking turns = he made little things from his fantastic glue-ups and I made "magic" wands. I gave out several, one to Mark StLeger, one to John, and one to Graeme Priddle and Melissa. (Graeme tried to use his to influence the symposium auction in his favor but he didn't know the correct spells....) Good clean fun!

1765317682581.jpeg

Always enjoyed seeing him at symposiums and such and he stayed at our house once after a demo in Knoxville.

1765317799044.jpeg 1765317828152.jpeg

I had the pleasure of being in an invitation-only class once hosted by John and Clay Foster - what an epicenter of creativity!

I love this pic - at the TAW symposium in 2010, the year of the "snow"". Doug Thompson, JJ, John Lucas, and me.

1765317892653.jpeg

JKJ
 
adding TruOil to one more thing for me to try.
Of note, I was supplying five galleries with my turnings 25 years ago. I was not as sensitive to or concerned about toxins.
Since you are now concerned about toxins in finishes, research TruOil before buying. It is a varnish with chemical drying agents.

I am of the opinion that once cured oil and varnish with chemical drying agents are inert IF a small bit happens to get into human plumbing but there is plenty of debate of the subject (not intended to create debate in this thread).

Another TruOil consideration is that since it is a varnish it dries hard. Hard finishes, even if wiped down when wet, will still show more scratching from utensils vs a soft oil finish such as blo or T&T oil. I do not know hoe hard t&t danish oil dries, never used it. Put a drop on a non porous surface and let it dry, or perhaps your container has dried finish on the outside.
 
The "other" John Jordan woodturner, the famous one, was a friend too. (BTW, he wasn't JKJ - I think his middle initial was "R" but I can't remember - always called him JJ.) We've been confused often - people have sent me things for him and to him for me, but no one ever sent me his money! I think John's birthday was a month earlier than mine so I always called him the old man. :)

The last photo I took of him was at a NC symposium a few years back. Frank Penta set up a lathe in the vendor area and Frank and I were taking turns = he made little things from his fantastic glue-ups and I made "magic" wands. I gave out several, one to Mark StLeger, one to John, and one to Graeme Priddle and Melissa. (Graeme tried to use his to influence the symposium auction in his favor but he didn't know the correct spells....) Good clean fun!

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Always enjoyed seeing him at symposiums and such and he stayed at our house once after a demo in Knoxville.

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I had the pleasure of being in an invitation-only class once hosted by John and Clay Foster - what an epicenter of creativity!

I love this pic - at the TAW symposium in 2010, the year of the "snow"". Doug Thompson, JJ, John Lucas, and me.

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JKJ
Fun stuff, I met the other John in 1992. We were both in a show together in Nashville. And then of course, through the local club. I moved to Denver in 1995 and gave up turning in about 2002. Now back at it and learning all the new stuff. So fun.
 
Another TruOil consideration is...

Just to be clear, I would never use Tru-Oil on a salad bowl. Getting daft, I saw the "danish" oil question but missed the title of this thread.

I use Tru-Oil for things held in the hand, especially outdoors, such as handles for horse rider's crops, makes great gunstock finish - but there you usually don't want gloss either, the reason for the pumice, etc, treatment to soften the finish. I've found it extremely durable.

May be of interest to some - Tru-Oil will set up in the bottle, almost if you look away for a moment. I think that's one reason they sell it in small bottles. But an open bottle will stay good for years if the air inside is displaced with nitrogen or argon. I have an opened bottle treated this way that's still liquid after years.
 
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