OK, I'm a beginner that has made a few bowls. While looking through my Gene Raffin (SP?) book I noticed that when he hollows out his bowl blank he cuts with the tool hitting the 1:00 o'clock position. The few bowls I've made I have always run my tool from the 9:00 o'clock position toward the center. Before I go try this out on my lathe, I'm wondering if anyone else has tried this. Maybe I'm just not seeing the picture right. It just seems to me that if I get a catch the tool would be pushed into me. Any comments?
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Hollowing with a Bowl Gouge
- Thread starter Simoli
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I would say before you do anything else and start devolping bad habits that will be hard to break, find another turner in your area to show you the right way. http://www.woodturner.org/community/chapters/ Check this link to find the nearest chapter and call the contact. I have seen so many turners try and do it themselves by asking a few questions on a forum and have lots of trouble. No need to be in such a rush. By the way, it's Richard Raffin and one oclock is about right for most. I promise you'll do fine and have more fun if you learn right the first time. Best of luck.
I think the main advantage advertised for the Raffan back hollowing cut is fast material removal. I know that some folks (e.g. Andre Martel) recommend it for quick removal of material for end grain hollowing. I myself have found the standard 9 o'clock cut has always removed plenty of material for me for bowl turning.
I also second Sean's point. After 6 months of struggling by myself, I took a class that Sean coordinated with Stuart Batty instructing. It has made my turning so much more enjoyable. Now that I understand the fundamentals, I can refine what I have learned & explore new directions as well. An afternoon with a knowledgeable member will serve one very well also. Some folks will also mention that learning on ones own is better, and provides unique directions in the long run. Ultimately, it's up to you what you want to do.
I also second Sean's point. After 6 months of struggling by myself, I took a class that Sean coordinated with Stuart Batty instructing. It has made my turning so much more enjoyable. Now that I understand the fundamentals, I can refine what I have learned & explore new directions as well. An afternoon with a knowledgeable member will serve one very well also. Some folks will also mention that learning on ones own is better, and provides unique directions in the long run. Ultimately, it's up to you what you want to do.
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The method that you saw Richard Raffan demonstrate is not for the beginner. Wait until you are much more experienced. Or, even better, forget that you ever saw it. I saw Andre Martel get a really good catch while doing it that way. But, when done correctly, the shavings really fly.
Bill
Bill
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You'll want to try everything as you go, just to see if it works for you, just as we all have. Never seen the video in question, but most times it's mentioned, its in reference to hollowing along the grain. Going to take a lot more elbow to do it across, where the resistance varies so much, that's for sure.
I do my cross-grain hollowing with the tailstock helping stabilize, which allows some pretty aggressive hogging, but if the chips "fly," I know I'm using more energy that what's required to cut wood. Newton says equal and opposite, so if the shavings curl down the gouge or eject in a continuation of the direction they were traveling when part of the piece, I'm successful. Generally results in a better surface, too, which is why even production turning favors finesse over force for the final passes. http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/ shows a few of the types of cuts I do, and while the shavings may curl around the gouge and change direction, they aren't flying anywhere. If they flew up, would mean I was hacking uphill on the grain, wouldn't it?
Hollowing endgrain is fairly easy to do in the 8:45 - 9:45 position too. I like a gouge drawn back to a full point for resistance to skate as I begin the bore, but the long edge removes an amazing amount of wood quickly if you push to the edge of control. Nice thing is you can tilt the gouge so the shavings run the flute instead of clogging the cut the way scraping types can. You can use both sides of the gouge by pulling up and out , then reversing down and in, too.
Use Newton as you evaluate techniques to determine if they're hogging to save time, or cutting to save sandpaper. If you were in a pit of poisonous snakes, speed would count, but in the solitude of your basement, take your time and save the piece and your elbow.
I do my cross-grain hollowing with the tailstock helping stabilize, which allows some pretty aggressive hogging, but if the chips "fly," I know I'm using more energy that what's required to cut wood. Newton says equal and opposite, so if the shavings curl down the gouge or eject in a continuation of the direction they were traveling when part of the piece, I'm successful. Generally results in a better surface, too, which is why even production turning favors finesse over force for the final passes. http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/ shows a few of the types of cuts I do, and while the shavings may curl around the gouge and change direction, they aren't flying anywhere. If they flew up, would mean I was hacking uphill on the grain, wouldn't it?
Hollowing endgrain is fairly easy to do in the 8:45 - 9:45 position too. I like a gouge drawn back to a full point for resistance to skate as I begin the bore, but the long edge removes an amazing amount of wood quickly if you push to the edge of control. Nice thing is you can tilt the gouge so the shavings run the flute instead of clogging the cut the way scraping types can. You can use both sides of the gouge by pulling up and out , then reversing down and in, too.
Use Newton as you evaluate techniques to determine if they're hogging to save time, or cutting to save sandpaper. If you were in a pit of poisonous snakes, speed would count, but in the solitude of your basement, take your time and save the piece and your elbow.
MichaelMouse said:
From time to time I have seen people using these forged gouges with swept back grind (generally "roughing gouge" with swept back grind). Is this something general and what many do? I have thought this is basically the no no thingie... Of course the grind is one thing that matters but still...
--petteri
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It's a way of getting wood off the lump to make it round. Old folks like me remember when all gouges were like the ones you see, back before they started milling flutes in cylinders and saying "hey, figure out how to use this."
I suppose the key thing to look at is the ease with which the shavings, and there are shavings, not chips, are removed. They don't fly, they flow. Means a cut that's easy on the machine, the man, and the wood. The inside run is especially instructive, because you see that fat guy standing straight up the whole time, watching the cut on the opposite wall while feeling the angle by the resistance.
As to the grinds, there's a straight-across type, a swept type, and a couple of "continental" pattern with modest noses in there. All have one key feature, and that's a constant angle grind. Makes adjustment to changing grain easier for simple folk like me when we only alter handle height.
I suppose the key thing to look at is the ease with which the shavings, and there are shavings, not chips, are removed. They don't fly, they flow. Means a cut that's easy on the machine, the man, and the wood. The inside run is especially instructive, because you see that fat guy standing straight up the whole time, watching the cut on the opposite wall while feeling the angle by the resistance.
As to the grinds, there's a straight-across type, a swept type, and a couple of "continental" pattern with modest noses in there. All have one key feature, and that's a constant angle grind. Makes adjustment to changing grain easier for simple folk like me when we only alter handle height.
leppikallio said:From time to time I have seen people using these forged gouges with swept back grind (generally "roughing gouge" with swept back grind). Is this something general and what many do? I have thought this is basically the no no thingie... Of course the grind is one thing that matters but still...
--petteri
Yes, it is usually considered a No No thing, the danger is the tang of the chisel could snap (as a result of a catch).
Just because something was "common practice" years ago, does not mean it's a good idea, or something that should be done today.
Using a roughing gouge on anything other than a spindle is not the brightest thing to be doing.
I totally agree with Sean and n7bsn in the last 2 posts. A roughing gouge is meant for spindle work and has a much higher probability for problems on bowls than a bowl gouge.
This exact same conversation came up 3 months ago. In summary, the AW Journal had a good article on best practices. And roughing gouges are not a best practice for bowls.
This exact same conversation came up 3 months ago. In summary, the AW Journal had a good article on best practices. And roughing gouges are not a best practice for bowls.
I've seen a turner get one stuck right through his chest roughing a bowl with one.