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How often do you use a Bedan

David Wyke

David Wyke

Joined
Nov 22, 2023
Messages
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Location
Morganton, NC
I’m getting ready to order a two bowl gouges, a skew, and a spindle gouge from Thompson Tools. I have several of his tools and really like them.
Just wondering about the Bedan and how often you use it. I see where it would be useful but I’m not the type of person that needs every tool. However the Bedan has sparked my interest..
 
Looking for replies to get my interest going on my bedan again. Saw some videos claiming it was the next best thing to sliced bread a decade or more ago so I bought a nice Henry Taylor one. I sharpened it and tried it out. I think I used it once or twice during the following weeks/months. Every once in a while I notice it in my tool rack and think I need to figure out how to take advantage of it...but it just gathers dust. I hope this thread will give me a reason to pick it up again.
 
I made one out of a piece of hss "chinesium" from Amazon and I use it quite a bit to lay out the tenon and foot on my bowl/platter bottoms.

Course I'm probably just using it more as a scraper but since it didn't cost much I tend to sharpen it more so works better for crisp corners.

Told myself once I was going to practice everyday and get good with it because I saw a video where it's used more like a skew. I made an egg the first time and impressed myself... next day not so much so I don't use it like a skew anymore if I can help it.
 
I do have one some where in my shop. I find myself going to a "sizing" tool which is pretty much identical to a beading and parting tool. Square shaft, maybe 1/2 inch square and maybe 40 degree bevel. Generally I will use a skew for peeling cuts, which is what the sizing tool does. The Bedan I have has a bracket that goes on it so I can make marks on a long cylinder to get the same diameter measurements in several places. The thing is, most of the time it is easier to use calipers. Also, the cylinder needs to be pretty close to size before using it. Again, calipers and a wide parting tool work better.

robo hippy
 
Kent Reisdorph said:
I don't have a bedan but am interested. So far my thoughts have been that between a scraper and a skew you can do everything a bedan can do. That's ignorance talking. :)
Click to expand...

I don't know, I guess I'm ignorant too but other than my limited experience with my bedan, I'm inclined to agree. Someone will be along with more information I hope.
 
There are at least two entirely different things sold as "bedans". Which do you mean?

There is one that indeed does look like a flat-ended scraper and is used bevel down-- the Sorby version has a slightly trapezoidal cross section. I find it utterly useless. Almost anything else works better for whatever cut you try. Save your money.

Then there is the type associated with Escoulen. That has a single sharp-angled bevel, but is used with the bevel UP. This type can be very useful. It can part, shave, and act as a skew, yielding very clean cuts. I do use this type. Using it like a skew definitely takes practice, but it's very handy.
 
R Henrickson said:
There are at least two entirely different things sold as "bedans". Which do you mean?

There is one that indeed does look like a flat-ended scraper and is used bevel down-- the Sorby version has a slightly trapezoidal cross section. I find it utterly useless. Almost anything else works better for whatever cut you try. Save your money.

Then there is the type associated with Escoulen. That has a single sharp-angled bevel, but is used with the bevel UP. This type can be very useful. It can part, shave, and act as a skew, yielding very clean cuts. I do use this type. Using it like a skew definitely takes practice, but it's very handy.
Click to expand...

I had the Sorby with the trapezoidal shape and also found that it wasn't much good for anything also. I have the Crown cryo 3/8 now and still don't use it a bunch.
 
I've never purchased a "Bedan" tool......but, I have made quite a few homemade turning tools that resemble what's being discussed here.

Can we assume the intended purpose of a Bedan tool is very similar to the intended purpose of a square carbide tipped tool?

My homemade "Bedan" tools are primarily used as sheer scrapers, and not the same as what I'm thinking is the main purpose/function of a commercial Bedan tool...

=o=
 
I used a Bedan often, not as usually intended, but for peeling cuts on spindle stock. to waste away wood.

Then I ground a 1/2" skew straight across instead at an skewed angle and now reach for it instead. Maybe I'll experiment with some different grinds.

JKJ
 
I’ve seen several videos lately with the Bedan being used to remove excess stock quickly, make tenons, and remove the inside of a recess. They are square tools with an angle ground. Looks like an easy tool to make and seems to be used mostly with spindle type turning.
It reminds me of a wide one sided parting tool. I think for my needs a parting tool and skew will meet my needs. I also have a square carbide tool that I use occasionally to square up a tenon or corner so I think I’ll pass on buying one for now.
I do have some some square steel I can make one out of to try first.
 
I found out about bedans by watching French turners. Many others who grab one tend to use it bevel down, flat side up. The French turners I saw used them bevel up, flat side down.

Google AI overview indicates:
"Bedan" can refer to​
a French-style woodturning chisel used for creating various cuts on wood,​
a biblical figure in the Old Testament,​
or potentially an Arabic curse word, so context is essential for understanding its meaning.​
​
Description:​
The bedan is a spindle-turning tool with a wedge-like, trapezoidal section, used with the bevel facing upwards.​
​
Uses:​
It excels at making beads, cutting tenons, forming chucking feet on bowls, and making plunge cuts on boxes.​
​
Origin:​
The term "bedan" is French and the tool was popularized in the United States by acclaimed turner Jean-François Escoulen.​
​
Types:​
French bedans have straight sides, while some bedans, especially in the UK, are tapered. Tapered bedans provide clearance but also risk catching.​

JKJ
 
I have two, both made by me. One from an old screwdriver, one from a piece of Chinese HSS, both French style with no taper. I jump around between skews, bedans, and a beading & parting tool, also made by me. The bedans I use bevel up, in the French way, as an alternative to a skew mostly, but some sizing. I default to the skew, but when I have one of the others in my hand, I do like them. I should commit, I suppose. They are so cheap and easy to make, not much risk in trying one out. I will probably never buy an expensive brand-name one.
 
Odie said:
Can we assume the intended purpose of a Bedan tool is very similar to the intended purpose of a square carbide tipped tool?
Click to expand...
Only if you're talking about the bevel DOWN type. The bevel UP bedan is an entirely different animal. It would be very difficult to use like a square-tip tool. It's more like a parting tool, although you are supposed to use the flat bottom surface for support (effectively as a 'bevel'), not stick the end into wood like a scraper.
 
The bedan is an incredible tool if you have the time, patience, and inherent hand-eye coordination to use it. Only the outside 1/16" of the edge is used to turn tapers or beads, and the difference between great and disaster is razor thin. If you can't use a skew, the bedan will be beyond your reach.

As a result of it's inherent difficulty and the lack of proper instruction in it's use, I strongly suspect that most turners who use one use it like a parting tool or scraper, rather than the way it's intended. Nothing wrong with using a tool in any way that works for you. We can't all be Escoulen. (though Daniel Bartlett has a pretty good start at it)
 
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I bought a Robert Sorby Bedan some years ago but I’ve never got on with it. The section of the tool is very slightly triangular, as, I’m led to believe it should be. Some thought appear to be square which isn’t something turners in Europe would recognise as a Bedan. Particularly in France I believe, where the Bedan is quite popular from what I’ve read.

IMG_5485.jpeg
 
The French use a Bedan, the English use a beading and parting tool. It’s a similar tool used in the same way but we have more bevels 🤪. Many people see these tools as just heavy parting tools but they are so much more versatile than that, being more of a hybrid between a parting tool and a skew and so can be used as both tools.

I have a Signature beading and parting tool that is a more refined version of the original tool and comes ground to my specifications. You can see it in use (with other skews) in my recent skew chisel series on YouTube

So to answer the original question, I’ve never actually used a bedan but, as a production turner, I use my beading and parting tool every day.

Richard
 
The latest video in your skew series, Richard Findley, is fantastic. I actually just came from a turning symposium in Lancaster, PA and one of Doug Thompson's beading and parting tools was among my purchases in the vendor area. I hope to try it out later today.

I was hoping to test drive one of your Crown tools, but our current political situation has shut off purchases from many vendors in Europe and NZ.

Dave
 
I have a couple of the Thompson bedans. One is ground to make the tenon on my pieces and the other pretty much sits in the drawer. I don't even put it in a handle for the tenon as it just takes off just about a 1/16" at the point of the tool to finish the tenon. Hasn't been sharpened since I made it. In my tool racks around some of the lathes I'm sure I have a couple of wood handled ones that I didn't even bother to give away. I always have a couple of parting tools handy (one wide and one very thin) and if I need quick stock removal in an area I use the wide parting tool. I suppose if the type of turning requires a bedan it will be useful. But a Thompson 1/2" scraper ground into a box cutting tool is much more usable for me.
 
Richard Findley said:
The French use a Bedan, the English use a beading and parting tool. It’s a similar tool used in the same way but we have more bevels 🤪. Many people see these tools as just heavy parting tools but they are so much more versatile than that, being more of a hybrid between a parting tool and a skew and so can be used as both tools.

I have a Signature beading and parting tool that is a more refined version of the original tool and comes ground to my specifications. You can see it in use (with other skews) in my recent skew chisel series on YouTube

So to answer the original question, I’ve never actually used a bedan but, as a production turner, I use my beading and parting tool every day.

Richard
Click to expand...
Great video!
 
David Wyke said:
I’m getting ready to order a two bowl gouges, a skew, and a spindle gouge from Thompson Tools. I have several of his tools and really like them.
Just wondering about the Bedan and how often you use it. I see where it would be useful but I’m not the type of person that needs every tool. However the Bedan has sparked my interest..
Click to expand...
I turned my bedan into a 3/8" parting tool after failing to use effectively it in its original configuration.
 
If I was to really work on my skew skills, I might be able to use a beading and parting tool for turning beads, same with the bedan. Since I do almost no ornamentation on anything I turn, I probably will never get around to it. I am okay at turning end grain box cylinders with a skew, but for sure, no expert.... A long time mentor and friend did a demo for our club where he was going to show how to use the beading and parting tool. He had a LOT of catches, and pretty much gave up. The width is just too narrow for me to safely turn even a cylinder with one. I have enough trouble with a skew.

robo hippy
 
Bill Alston said:
I bought a Robert Sorby Bedan some years ago but I’ve never got on with it. The section of the tool is very slightly triangular, as, I’m led to believe it should be. Some thought appear to be square which isn’t something turners in Europe would recognise as a Bedan. Particularly in France I believe, where the Bedan is quite popular from what I’ve read.

View attachment 79888
Click to expand...

From my reading when I was making mine, I came to the opposite understanding: the French use square section bedans (Escoulen does), and it is the English version which is trapezoidal. Some discussion in this old threadhttps://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/making-a-bedan-from-hss-blank.14389/
 
Hello, @Richard Findley, thanks for pointing out your videos. I didn't know about them and hadn't watched any but just now watched the one on basic spindle tools and sharpening. We apparently think alike in some ways. You are quite clear at presentation. I already use a "traditional" 1/2 skew ground straight across but I want to try the your idea of square bedan as skew.

I do a lot of spindle turning, use the same three sizes of spindle gouges, skews, etc. I do sharpen some a bit differently but then how boring life would be if we all did everything exactly the same way! I use a variety of skews extensively and will watch your videos on them when I can figure out how. I love to experiment with grinds.

That brings me to my basic question - I'm not smart enough to find things on youtube - is there an easy way to find a list of all of your videos, and JUST your videos? - when I searched I did find the spindle tools and one on turning a Christmas bell and saw a mix of some on skews but was quickly overwhelmed by videos from everywhere. I'd particularly like to watch your skew videos in order.

I may be the only one who doesn't know how to narrow things down but then I don't watch youtube much.

Hey, I was especially happy to see your recommendation of the diamond parting tool, my favorite, misunderstood by some but to me the most useful parting tool design - I'd hate to be without them. I do use a modified grind but again, there's room for variety in life.

BTW, I've found the diamond parting tool the absolute best and quickest at hollowing end grain - drill a central hole then push the parting tool straight in or at an angle as needed - directs the force towards the headstock instead of the sidewall.
1758989698728.png

I did a club demo last week on my Christmas handbell ornament designs and taught that method - it's especially helpful for thin walls on soft wood, smoothing the inside after hollowing by shear scraping with a spindle gouge. The cut-a-way picture shows the inside of one done that way. (I usually thin the rim to about 1/32", <1mm)

This is NOT a quick project but I think a fun one! Tools: spindle gouge, parting tool, skew if so inclined, drill bits.

1758987546957.png 1758988290026.png

So back to my question, what's the secret to finding all your videos so I can watch them in order?

JKJ
 
John K Jordan said:
Hello, @Richard Findley, thanks for pointing out your videos. I didn't know about them and hadn't watched any but just now watched the one on basic spindle tools and sharpening. We apparently think alike in some ways. You are quite clear at presentation. I already use a "traditional" 1/2 skew ground straight across but I want to try the your idea of square bedan as skew.

I do a lot of spindle turning, use the same three sizes of spindle gouges, skews, etc. I do sharpen some a bit differently but then how boring life would be if we all did everything exactly the same way! I use a variety of skews extensively and will watch your videos on them when I can figure out how. I love to experiment with grinds.

That brings me to my basic question - I'm not smart enough to find things on youtube - is there an easy way to find a list of all of your videos, and JUST your videos? - when I searched I did find the spindle tools and one on turning a Christmas bell and saw a mix of some on skews but was quickly overwhelmed by videos from everywhere. I'd particularly like to watch your skew videos in order.

I may be the only one who doesn't know how to narrow things down but then I don't watch youtube much.

Hey, I was especially happy to see your recommendation of the diamond parting tool, my favorite, misunderstood by some but to me the most useful parting tool design - I'd hate to be without them. I do use a modified grind but again, there's room for variety in life.

BTW, I've found the diamond parting tool the absolute best and quickest at hollowing end grain - drill a central hole then push the parting tool straight in or at an angle as needed - directs the force towards the headstock instead of the sidewall.
View attachment 79901

I did a club demo last week on my Christmas handbell ornament designs and taught that method - it's especially helpful for thin walls on soft wood, smoothing the inside after hollowing by shear scraping with a spindle gouge. The cut-a-way picture shows the inside of one done that way. (I usually thin the rim to about 1/32", <1mm)

This is NOT a quick project but I think a fun one! Tools: spindle gouge, parting tool, skew if so inclined, drill bits.

View attachment 79897 View attachment 79899

So back to my question, what's the secret to finding all your videos so I can watch them in order?

JKJ
Click to expand...
Hi John

Here is a link to my YouTube channel home page which just shows the videos I’ve made and you can select ‘oldest first’ to watch them in order. If you just search my name you get all sorts of things other people have made that either feature me or my work. I’m fairly new to YouTube so still getting to grips with it myself.

Hope that helps

Richard
 
Very clear and to the point video, Richard. Well done. It appears you are turning with the headstock on your right. Are you 'behind' the lathe, with it spinning in reverse, and turning left handed, or is this an optical delusion?
 
Dean Center said:
Very clear and to the point video, Richard. Well done. It appears you are turning with the headstock on your right. Are you 'behind' the lathe, with it spinning in reverse, and turning left handed, or is this an optical delusion?
Click to expand...
Hi Dean

Glad you enjoyed it. The lathe is old but basically normal configuration, so the headstock is to my left but from the camera angle it’s to your right. Probably just optical illusion.

Richard
 
Richard Findley said:
Hi John

Here is a link to my YouTube channel home page which just shows the videos I’ve made and you can select ‘oldest first’ to watch them in order. If you just search my name you get all sorts of things other people have made that either feature me or my work. I’m fairly new to YouTube so still getting to grips with it myself.

Hope that helps

Richard
Click to expand...
Richard, your videos are very clear and informative, and not too long! The skew was one of the first tools I learned on (thanks to John Jordan’s recommendations) and your videos are helpful and show me little things that I can do to get even better results. I look forward to more!

Thanks, Tom.
 
Adrian Wilson said:
From my reading when I was making mine, I came to the opposite understanding: the French use square section bedans (Escoulen does), and it is the English version which is trapezoidal. Some discussion in this old threadhttps://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/making-a-bedan-from-hss-blank.14389/
Click to expand...

We will have to agree to disagree. I watched a couple of videos some years ago of two French turners and they were both using the slightly triangular shape. My understanding is that a square section bar is simply a parting tool.
 
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