Kelton mcnaughton center saver how to use

[Austin Kliniske]

So I found one, but I'm unsure about how the turret is supposed to function and no one in the videos talks about it, to me it makes sense that the fingers\slots should remain stationary and the saddle or the support that makes it a captured system should remain mobile, however the turret is designed that either both are free or both are locked.

I've pulled the turret apart several times and taken measurements and the shaft is definitely machined to lock both pins and support arm, as the center of the groove is at .54" but the set screw is in at .37" from the top

Anyone have any material for me or advice?

 

[robo hippy]

Best bet is to find some one close by who knows how to use it. I have a video up on using it, and Dale Bonertz has one, and there are a few others. I like my slots/support fingers to be locked in place with the set screw. It seemed that first efforts, the fingers would pivot and kind of lock the blade in. The support for the handle does need to float because your tool handle angle changes as you progress into the cut.

robo hippy

 

[Austin Kliniske]

Best bet is to find some one close by who knows how to use it. I have a video up on using it, and Dale Bonertz has one, and there are a few others. I like my slots/support fingers to be locked in place with the set screw. It seemed that first efforts, the fingers would pivot and kind of lock the blade in. The support for the handle does need to float because your tool handle angle changes as you progress into the cut.

robo hippy

That's what I was looking for, this tool post is obviously machined so it absolutely cannot allow the saddle to float while the guide pins are stationary

I need to machine the post down to 1" so I think I will simply machine a whole new post that works in such a way that the saddle can float while the inside are stationary.

Non of the videos I found cover anything about the tool post\turret just gotta line these up like so, and to me that's the obvious part, like set you tool with the ark on top look where it ends and where it starts, mark your face and go..it's a scraper so at or just below center is how it cuts..and as you mentioned before when your 10" out or more the tools going to bend

 

[Richard Coers]

Interesting that you want to redesign the rest while not even knowing the tool or how to use it.

 

[Paul Hackworth]

So I found one, but I'm unsure about how the turret is supposed to function and no one in the videos talks about it, to me it makes sense that the fingers\slots should remain stationary and the saddle or the support that makes it a captured system should remain mobile, however the turret is designed that either both are free or both are locked.

I've pulled the turret apart several times and taken measurements and the shaft is definitely machined to lock both pins and support arm, as the center of the groove is at .54" but the set screw is in at .37" from the top

Anyone have any material for me or advice?

Purchase the Mike Mahoney video download from his website. It was easy to figure out after watching the video. He explains it very well and takes all of the fear and head scratching out of it.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

As everyone says, it has a steep learning curve. But once you get it, it’s a great, versatile tool. I agree about Mahoney’s video. Invaluable. The first couple of times I used mine, I had the captive piece reversed, between the turret and the piece I was hollowing. It was beating the crap out of me, as I was struggling to hold the tool handle high. Impossible. Finally figured out if the captive retaining piece was behind the turret instead, the only effort was in pushing forward the knife. BTW, set the blade on center or a bit above, not below.

 

[Austin Kliniske]

Interesting that you want to redesign the rest while not even knowing the tool or how to use it.

The rest I have dosent work as intended for whatever reason, I'd like to add some nylon bushings and move the groove for the set screw to where it doesn't lock the saddle down when locking the support pins

It would be neat to add nylon to the support pins but that would take an entire rework

Judging from what the first response to this post was I understood it I just didn't have a working system

 

[Neil S]

There are a number of Kelton models. Without images some of the descriptors used in this thread will be difficult to understand. Photos with some labelling would be helpful. Here are a few models... add some labels to any of those and we will know what you are referring to.

 

[robo hippy]

I like the old T type tool rest the best. I would say that the biggest problem most have when aiming, is that they tend to follow the outside curve of the bowl, which of course means the core comes out right on your chuck jaws and the blank rips through the bottom of the bowl. Saw one guy who drew pencil lines on the outside of the bowl for the depth he wanted the cores to end up at. I thought that was a good idea.

With scrapers, on the outside of the bowl, you want to be at or slightly below center. On the inside of the bowl, you need to be at or above center, and as I said earlier, when you consider all the flex in this system, you can be easily 1/4 inch or more above center. Depends on how big/long the blade is that you are using and how deep you are coring. Try to remove the nub left when the core breaks out and you will see how much it can flex.

robo hippy.

 

[JeffSmith]

I use an older style turret, similar to the last one Neil has pictured. I’ve always set it up so both the turret with the pins and the T style blade capture bar are allowed to pivot with the cut. I believe that’s the way Mahoney shows it in his video. The critical part of the setup is determining the entry angle of the blade. Once that is determined, it’s just a question of supporting the blade and allowing it to follow the path to the center.
I’ve tried to write this numerous times to explain the concept, but it is much easier to show than to write. I don’t recall whose video showed this, but the simple way to get the entry angle is to position yourself so you can look down on the blank from above. Using the blade that matches the outside curve of the blank, position the blade so the cutting tip is where you want the cutter to be at the center. Holding it there, move the blade handle until the arc is aligned over the entry point. At the point where the blade would enter the blanks face, grasp the blade with your thumb and forefinger on opposite sides, pinching the blade loosely. Pull the blade out through your fingers allowing the blades arc to determine the angle the handle makes to the bed of the lathe. When the cutting tip has been withdrawn and is over the entry point, the angle of the handle to the lathe bed is the only angle that will get the tip to the bottom you originally determined.
I often sight down the handle and find something to align it to - the doorknob or a mark on the wall - or put a piece of tape on the wall. Now, just move the turret into position for the width of your bowl, adjust with the cutter in position and at the entry angle, and let the cutter do what it does. It can’t help but wind up where you started unless you try to force the issue by steering. The cutter will travel the path you set for it. All you have to do is support the blade by holding the handle up.

By the way - the process above takes about 30 seconds to do when you are familiar with it…takes longer to read. I also always take the largest core first, even though it’s a little more work - these are the money bowls, I make sure to get them first.

 

[Austin Kliniske]

I like the old T type tool rest the best. I would say that the biggest problem most have when aiming, is that they tend to follow the outside curve of the bowl, which of course means the core comes out right on your chuck jaws and the blank rips through the bottom of the bowl. Saw one guy who drew pencil lines on the outside of the bowl for the depth he wanted the cores to end up at. I thought that was a good idea.

With scrapers, on the outside of the bowl, you want to be at or slightly below center. On the inside of the bowl, you need to be at or above center, and as I said earlier, when you consider all the flex in this system, you can be easily 1/4 inch or more above center. Depends on how big/long the blade is that you are using and how deep you are coring. Try to remove the nub left when the core breaks out and you will see how much it can flex.

robo hippy.

I saw the same video, definately found about 1\4 above center at half way works best.

I eye ball pretty well only off by 2" on 12' so setting it hasn't been my issue, the real issue was the saddle for the capture wouldn't move when you tighten down the pins, fixed that

Attached is a photo of my first and second attempts, what I found was I tried the wrong arc blade first go at it, not using the whole knife just about 3\4 of the knife.

I see much room for improvement on the system but as a whole the concept is great, I'll likely entirely re design my own tool post for this in the future, the knives themselves could use a little work as well, I think putting the hunter core pro on the ends would make this system much better, and the knives could use some parabola to Thier outside.

The thing that disappoints me about them or the entire system is the quality of steel used is some of the softest I've machined

I think my binding issue was actually from the previous user (I bought used) had bent the tiny part of the post of the turret

I imagine all of this steel is to keep cost down

 

[Dean Center]

Jeff's description is Dale Bonertz' method.

In order to make this easier for a guy with 9 thumbs, I made a "tool post riser" out of PVC pipe. The diameter of the blank dictates the height of the riser. Just pop the riser into the banjo, stick the turret into the elevated hole, and the knife now moves over the top of the blank. This allows you to visualize things from above, set the banjo position where it needs to be, and sight along the knife handle to identify a starting point, as Jeff describes and Dale shows in his video.

One other tip to make things easier. When you know where your cut will start, make a groove with a bowl gouge or straight McNaughton knife. With that starting groove made, you can position your turret closer to the work, if desired, and it's much easier to get the scraper started in the right spot--no wandering knife for 10 minutes.

 

[JeffSmith]

Jeff's description is Dale Bonertz' method. .

You’re probably right, although I recall reading Dale’s description, I don’t recall seeing his video. Age catches up with us all. The journal had a great article comparing three experienced user’s procedures several years ago that also had some good information. The process of finding the entry angle works well and has not resulted in a funnel since I adopted it. Your pvc post extension is a great idea, but I’m pretty used to doing it manually after a couple of decades…and there’s enough ‘slop’ in the system (at least there is in mine) that you’ve just got to understand how it all works together and get in the ballpark To be successful.

 

[John Chalikian]

I just purchased a T bar style McNaughton system from eBay. Of course no directions, but I have been looking on line. My problem is that the post that it came with leaves the tool point more than an 1" below center. In looking and reading articles no one mentions post lengths. In Craft Supply catalog no mention of choice of post length. I just got off of the phone with CS (very helpful even though not purchased from the as always) and they said I should get a post that is 6" long (mine is 2.5".) They are out of stock of entire system and any posts. I got to zoom the AAW demo by Andy Cole on nesting Natural edge sets. A demo on coring which was very informative but no mention of post length. His demo was the push for me to go McN system over One Way. Once I get the correct post I am sure I will be coming back with some questions. I just wanted to make people aware of checking post length before buying a system.
ps: big appreciation to notes from Jeff Smith and Dean Center

 

[Lou Jacobs]

I would think it wouldn’t be too difficult to weld an extension to the post, perhaps with a sleeve that your post and the extension could slip into. Sort of a splint, that would give you the height you need.

 

[John Chalikian]

Thank you Lou for the suggestion the idea seems like it could work. That is an option I have not though of. Today I emailed Kelton industries to see if there was anything available. Also, I have a friend that I might approach to see if he could make me one on his metal lathe.

 

[Ed Weingarden]

Also, I have a friend that I might approach to see if he could make me one on his metal lathe.

I bought a piece of 1" round bar stock, cut it to the proper length, and had a friend machine the top end of the bar to replicate the original (short) bar. It was a relatively inexpensive fix. Btw, the length of the post needed will vary, depending on how tall the banjo is where the post is held.

 

[Omer Klee]

Try Lee Valley Tools they carry McNaughton tools.
Price beats Craft Supplies as well.

 

[JeffSmith]

I know this is an old thread from 2023, but I just read the OP's original post. I'm really hoping he's done a little more research and realized that both the turret top with the posts/fingers and the T-restraint should pivot when in use. I assemble the turret then run the grub screw down and back it off about 1/2 turn so the turret and the t-bar pivot smoothly.
Mine is an older type system, and the posts are setup to provide slots for various sized cutters. Use the proper slot for the knives you're using and let the pins line up parallel with the face of the blank (a line tangent to both pins should also be parallel with the face of the blank). Move the turret/banjo until the proper entry angle is set and let the tool do the work while you hold up the rear of the handle.

 

[John Chalikian]

I bought a piece of 1" round bar stock, cut it to the proper length, and had a friend machine the top end of the bar to replicate the original (short) bar. It was a relatively inexpensive fix. Btw, the length of the post needed will vary, depending on how tall the banjo is where the post is held.

Thanks Ed, I think the 1" stock will be the quickest way for me t resolve problem