Looking for a full face mask

[Jeff Walters]

Hi All,
Presently I use a 3M Half Mask with the pink filters and I use a Bionic Shield face shield. I’d like to move to a better filter however the only other ones offered for my mask are large and do not let me put my face shield all the way down.

Is there a good full face respirator (non-powered) that can be worn with glasses? I’ve seen some with the round filters at the top however I cannot find any information on wearing them with glasses.
Thanks,
Jeff

 

[John King]

Checkout the Elipse P100 dust mask at https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/elipse-p100-dust-mask.aspx. Very effective dust protection. Compact size easily worn under face shield. I love the one that I have. - John

PS - Wearing with glasses not a problem. I wear reading glasses when turning. - J

 

[john lucas]

Look at the Peke Power cap. Fits very well. Is really comfortable and lightweight. The motor makes noise but it's not bad and behind your head.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

All the half masks cover the bridge of your nose, just where the nose piece of your glasses was meant to be. So your glasses will be lifted up. Less of a problem with single vission lens, like readers, but a real issue with bi-focals or blended lenses.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

3M great ones; HEPA, light weight, powered full-face, but they are expensive - 3M™ Versaflo™ Heavy Industry PAPR Kit TR-300N+ HIK 1 EA/Case
I finally bought one last year and wished I had done it much sooner. It is not heavy, has a hard shield (great for turning and all woodworking), is powered with a belt mounted rechargeable battery that lasts at least 8 hours (maybe up to 12). The problem is that it costs a lot of money, but I have always felt dust filtration and safety are worth it.

 

[Donna Banfield]

3M great ones; HEPA, light weight, powered full-face, but they are expensive - 3M™ Versaflo™ Heavy Industry PAPR Kit TR-300N+ HIK 1 EA/Case
I finally bought one last year and wished I had done it much sooner. It is not heavy, has a hard shield (great for turning and all woodworking), is powered with a belt mounted rechargeable battery that lasts at least 8 hours (maybe up to 12). The problem is that it costs a lot of money, but I have always felt dust filtration and safety are worth it.

I agree Randy. Many of us are willing to pay thousands of dollars for our machinery, but we try to save money on the things that matter so most and are irreplaceable. Our eyes and our lungs.

I admit in the beginning, I did not wear full face and respiratory protection. But in 2010, a woodturner named Joan Kelly, TN, took a blow to the head while turning a red cedar chunk of wood. Her husband found her on the floor of the shop, unconscious. She never recovered. I realized that I was paying top dollar for the best equipment, machinery, steel and tools that money could buy. But it meant nothing if I wasn't taking care of the most important thing in my woodturning journey - ME. I now wear an AirMate with Lexan face shield and Hepa filter battery operated respiratory system on a belt. Acquired not long after Joan's death. That system is no longer made by 3M, but when I can no longer get replacement parts I intend to buy the 3M Versaflo. Yes, it is expensive, but my lungs and respiratory system are irreplaceable.

 

[Lars Hansen]

Plus one on the Elipse mask. I too use glasses under my Bionic shield - no fogging problems at all, provided the shield is the polycarbonate no-fog-version. The combination is comfortable, too and the filters are super.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

With regard to air filtration, I don't know that  all half masks are inherently inferior to  any powered air purifying resperator. I think they do complicate the eye and face protection problems, particularly if you wear eyeglasses. A PAPR can offer an all in one solution, but as pointed out, they are expensive.

The Elipse product already mentioned is a compact design. It is rated at P100, which is better than N95 (I forget how it compares to HEPA).

 

[William Fordham]

Another proponent of the Elipse half mask. I wear glasses with one and have no fogging issues.

 

[Greg Carles]

3M great ones; HEPA, light weight, powered full-face, but they are expensive - 3M™ Versaflo™ Heavy Industry PAPR Kit TR-300N+ HIK 1 EA/Case
I finally bought one last year and wished I had done it much sooner. It is not heavy, has a hard shield (great for turning and all woodworking), is powered with a belt mounted rechargeable battery that lasts at least 8 hours (maybe up to 12). The problem is that it costs a lot of money, but I have always felt dust filtration and safety are worth it.

I went ahead and took the plunge on this system.
It is expensive but after doing research until blue in the face, I decided to go with this complete system. I do have a couple of questions though. How is it still holding up to your expectation? What is the life expectancy of this unit? And reading the disclaimer put out by 3M they are not labeled for consumer purchase and only recommend for industry use. So what does all this mean? I could not find any info warranty?

One thing I noticed is that people that review these PAPR systems on youtube for instance rarely use the product in their successive videos, which leads me to wonder what their review was all about, if they only use it in the video they do the review on. I hope this makes since?

 

[Randy Heinemann]

I went ahead and took the plunge on this system.
It is expensive but after doing research until blue in the face, I decided to go with this complete system. I do have a couple of questions though. How is it still holding up to your expectation? What is the life expectancy of this unit? And reading the disclaimer put out by 3M they are not labeled for consumer purchase and only recommend for industry use. So what does all this mean? I could not find any info warranty?

One thing I noticed is that people that review these PAPR systems on youtube for instance rarely use the product in their successive videos, which leads me to wonder what their review was all about, if they only use it in the video they do the review on. I hope this makes since?

Greg,

I love it. It meets my expectations completely. Battery life is exceptional. I can't tell you what the max number of hours is before charging because I don't wait till it's completely depleted. However, I wore it to a hands-on 4-day turning class. At least 2 of the days, I used it for 5-6 hours and the battery indicator still showed about half remaining. I don't ever have any residual dust in my sinuses. (However, I do have my lathe and other tools hooked up to a dust colletor.) That wasn't always true with my old Trend Air Pro. It's easy to put on, doesn't feel heavy even after a few hours of wearing it, and my evidence indicates it's as effective in filtering the air I breathe while working on my lathe and other tools in my shop as possible.

I believe the warranty from 3M may only be 90 days but I have not heard of any users who had problems with it. I believe mine is about a year old and no problems. I have not yet replaced the HEPA filter. I've vacuumed it a few times though and I suspect that it may need to be replaced in the near future but, for now, it seems to still permit the proper level of air flow as indicated by the little tester included with the kit.

YouTube reviews can be helpful. However, many tend not to demonstrate actual use. That is just one of the drawbacks of YouTube reviews for me. I've noticed it with many products. I have taken classes fromr Trent Bosch who has had his 3M for many years and he loves it.

The main drawback I can see is that replacement filters are expensive, but then I find it's difficult to place a price on breathing healthy air.

 

[Brian Gustin]

RE: Youtube reviews- Vast majority of the "big names" in Youtube are "Influencers" and actually make a living off producing Youtube videos many brands and vendors will set up paid contracts of sponsorships (Notably one I watched regularly had a Powermatic sponsorship and his shop was full of Mustard Monsters of all types.. and he had to be quite careful about mentioning or praising competing brands) So I generally take ANYTHING on Youtube with a grain of salt - It pays to do your own homework, and rely on Youtube as more of a guideline. I see many of them often do not practice what they preach in reality.... Me, I dont have PAPR (Can't afford it, so I have to make do with home made and jury rigged stuff) but I do have one on my Amazon wish list (It is a Trend AIR/PRO) that I might eventually afford (it is under $400) so I'm sure if it fits me comfortably, it is going to be the one I recommend, even if there are better ones out there..

 

[Doug Freeman]

I went ahead and took the plunge on this system.
It is expensive but after doing research until blue in the face, I decided to go with this complete system. I do have a couple of questions though. How is it still holding up to your expectation? What is the life expectancy of this unit? And reading the disclaimer put out by 3M they are not labeled for consumer purchase and only recommend for industry use. So what does all this mean?

I’ve had mine for ~4 yrs. Love it. One advantage for me is that organic vapor cartridges are available - I wear it when spraying finishes. I’m still using the original filter. I vacuum the foam prefilter and the filter (reverse flow) and tap it on something after using it several days. Never measured battery life, but its probably 8+ hrs. I keep the fan on low, plenty of air for me and extends battery life. I bought a spare battery so I always have one charged. I use the overlay sheets for the shield to keep it from scratching. It works as well as the 1st day I used it. Battery life seems just as long.

 

[Monty Ivy]

3M great ones; HEPA, light weight, powered full-face, but they are expensive - 3M™ Versaflo™ Heavy Industry PAPR Kit TR-300N+ HIK 1 EA/Case
I finally bought one last year and wished I had done it much sooner. It is not heavy, has a hard shield (great for turning and all woodworking), is powered with a belt mounted rechargeable battery that lasts at least 8 hours (maybe up to 12). The problem is that it costs a lot of money, but I have always felt dust filtration and safety are worth it.

I'm running this system too. Two years in and I can't say enough good things about it.

A couple of recommendations:
Periodically remove the filter and remove the dust from the housing and filter with an air compressor.
Add a pair of these to the "helmet" if you need to protect your ears along with your eyes and lungs.
Keep one of these on the visor to make clean up easy and avoid having to buy a new $170 visor.
I also purchased an extra battery so there is always a fresh one on the charger.
I use one of these on the belt to get the weight off my hips and keep it from pulling my pants down.

 

[Greg Carles]

A couple of recommendations:

Thanks for the info, I looked at all these accessories. I got a little confused on the different face shield protectors and when I purchased the unit it had the face shield covers as " frequently bought together" so I got those also. Now that I looked at them closer it may not be the part number for my helmet??
This is the unit I ended up getting, along with it I purchased an extra filter and a 10 pack of the shield protectors.

Amazon.com

 

[Greg Carles]

I’ve had mine for ~4 yrs. Love it.

Thanks for the great info on the system.
That's great, while doing my research I could not find any comments on life of the unit.

 

[Monty Ivy]

This is the unit I ended up getting, along with it I purchased an extra filter and a 10 pack of the shield protectors.

I'm using M-927 shield protectors with my TR-300. I haven't tried other part numbers.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

Thanks for the info, I looked at all these accessories. I got a little confused on the different face shield protectors and when I purchased the unit it had the face shield covers as " frequently bought together" so I got those also. Now that I looked at them closer it may not be the part number for my helmet??
This is the unit I ended up getting, along with it I purchased an extra filter and a 10 pack of the shield protectors.

Amazon.com

Mine came with 1 shield protector. I think the visor model number is M-927. The shield protectors for that visor are M-928. I am attaching a picture of the package of shield protectors I bought. They are identical to the one that was included with the mask and fit perfectly. Hope that helps. The instructions in the manual were a little confusing, but these work as long as your faceshield is the M-927.

I just checked your link to Amazon and it says that faceshield is an M-925, so I'm not totally sure but if the Amazon entry indicated the faceshields you bought the I would think they are correct. The kit should have one included so just compare with the replacements you bought.

 

[Greg Carles]

I just checked your link to Amazon and it says that faceshield is an M-925

Randy,
I got the peel off shields today and they say for an M-925 shield on the cover. I will double check with the actual visor when I get it though.

 

[Al Chavez]

i went the 3M route also. I completely agree with Donna's and others' sentiments/thoughts here about Personal Safety Equipment.
After much research, post reading and reaching out to a couple of AAW woodturners I decided on a 3M Versaflo with a M-307 helmet. All the components were bought new open box from Ebay. I got the 3M Versaflo TR-300+ complete respirator kit with hospital shroud headpiece for $400 (list price $1500). I'll save the headpiece for sanding or spraying. I also found a brand new 3m Versaflo M307 Helmet for $240 (list price on Amazon $400). Battery took a full charge and all the components were still wrapped in the plastic packaging.
With tax I've come in under $700 though I will buy more prefilters and peel off visor covers.
I appreciate this thread and all the responses shared here.
Al in Texas

 

[David Sumner]

Does anyone have a list of the components for a PAPR systems? I would like to put a system together to save some money.
Thank you

 

[Kevin Jesequel]

3m lists the various components for a Versaflo system here: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/respiratory-protection-us/products/papr/

 

[Brian Gustin]

Does anyone have a list of the components for a PAPR systems? I would like to put a system together to save some money.
Thank you

I believe there have been a couple of step by step DIY builds posted here.. thought I'd bookmarked one, but guess not.. Im sure a search would bring it up. I was planning mine based on a CPAP machine and long hose, plus a welder helmet and welder's hood .. would have been tethered to the unit , but better than a $500-$1200 system I couldn't afford

 

[Darryn Achall]

I put together a Versaflo complete system for about $775. There are a lot of full systems on Ebay for over $1000. If you are patient, you can do better. Took me several weeks of watching deals to find the ones I wanted. The thread linked to has some other links down in the thread that are helpful. Good luck hunting! Recent versaflo links

 

[Glenn C Roberts]

I bought a powered system, had it on for 30 seconds, and took it off. Couldn't stand the noise. A quality system that will do what it is designed to do, but the noise was an issue. I wanted the face protection and the air filtration, so I was going to make it work. So I ordered 2 cpap noise reduction filters, put them in series and in parallel - didn't work. I would assume because cpap noise is probably lower frequency (rushing air), rather than the whine of the vacuum type motor on the powered system - about 470hz. I made a prototype noise suppressor out of plumbing pipe insulation that works perfectly - almost 0 whine. Now the motor has to be insulated some how. And it has to be packaged so it is wearable.

 

[Dennis Weiner]

Does anyone have a list of the components for a PAPR systems? I would like to put a system together to save some money.
Thank you

There are two main component categories of a PAPR system: the Faceshield/Helmut and the air supply. If you are patent, eventually a Versaflo Helmut like the 3xx, 4xx or 5xx models come up on ebay, craigs list etc. If you really want to save money on the initial cost and the consumables you may wish to consider not wearing a belt with a battery, blower motor, and filter around your belt. We are woodturners not first responders. Mobility is convenient but an expensive option. Instead, consider constructing an external SAR (supplied air respirator) as the second component mentioned above. That's what I did. Easier on the back too. I built a box for my CPAP machine containing an inexpensive intake filter. The CPAP hose actually fits in(not over) my 310 Versaflo headgear hose adapter. The CPAP resides in a clean-air environment either outdoors or in the adjacent room. The hose is suspended from the ceiling such that I can move around anywhere in the lathe room.
I was jealous of @Emiliano Achaval
Read this old post: https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/versaflo-m-407.13686/
Good luck!

 

[Darryn Achall]

several Versaflo M-400 helmets available at good prices on Ebay.com this morning

 

[Wally Turbeville]

several Versaflo M-400 helmets available at good prices on Ebay.com this morning

Darryn, some of the units look a little dirty, I'm good at cleaning stuff, would this scare you off? I admit all this is new to me. I'm looking at a few priced at 229 for the helmet.

 

[Carl Scott]

I just got a PAPR system from eBay I bought a hospital versaflo system for $350 and bought a M-206 helmet from MATHESON for $177 So I have a complete system for around $600 both were brand new. I looked at the helmets u r talking about and they really looked like they have really been used. I am glad I got the M-2 helmet instead of the M-3 because of the weight

I also made some pre filters using one of the blue and white masks that I am sure everyone has lying around and checked the airflow and it was the same as with the foam on

 

[Darryn Achall]

Darryn, some of the units look a little dirty, I'm good at cleaning stuff, would this scare you off? I admit all this is new to me. I'm looking at a few priced at 229 for the helmet.

Sorry, I have been away for a few days. Like Carl says. Keep looking until you find the Versaflo system with a soft hood on sale cheap. Then find the helmet you want to go with it. During the pandemic many of the hospital type systems were purchased and are now for sale with open box but unused.

 

[Wally Turbeville]

Sorry, I have been away for a few days. Like Carl says. Keep looking until you find the Versaflo system with a soft hood on sale cheap. Then find the helmet you want to go with it. During the pandemic many of the hospital type systems were purchased and are now for sale with open box but unused.

Thank you.

 

[Alan Weinberg]

another vote for PekeSafety Powercap. Good customer service also.

 

[Steve Bujalski]

I bought the Peke CleanAir HEPA PAPR System at the symposium. I've used it three or four times since receiving it and its been great. My only complaint is that the blower hangs a little heavy on the belt. I'm planning on adding a pair of suspneder to the belt and it should be great. Best part is that it was mid $600 ish.

 

[John Grace]

I've tried several over the years and I found the 3M Versaflo the best to my liking...

 

[dwasson]

I also would recommend the PekeSafety Powercap. I wear glasses, and it works very well. With the heat, the added benefit of the blower helps keep my face cool. Glasses never fog.

 

[Roger Wiegand]

I bought a used Airmate 3 (predecessor to the Versaflow) maybe 30 years ago and used it a lot. Even decades after the company was sold off and the product discontinued, replacement parts were still readily available. It got to the point where it needed a number of new parts, including a new battery and I decided to replace it with a new Versaflow. The helmet is a bit heavier, but seems much more sturdy. For the moment I'm trying the backpack rather than belt configuration for the blower, I might try belt and suspenders next as the backpack is a little awkward to get on and off and chafes a bit. If I had a waist the belt alone would probably be fine ;-)
Whenever I have to use a non-powered respirator I wonder how in the world people put up with them. No way I'd ever go back.

 

[Gary T Egbert]

i went the 3M route also. I completely agree with Donna's and others' sentiments/thoughts here about Personal Safety Equipment.
After much research, post reading and reaching out to a couple of AAW woodturners I decided on a 3M Versaflo with a M-307 helmet. All the components were bought new open box from Ebay. I got the 3M Versaflo TR-300+ complete respirator kit with hospital shroud headpiece for $400 (list price $1500). I'll save the headpiece for sanding or spraying. I also found a brand new 3m Versaflo M307 Helmet for $240 (list price on Amazon $400). Battery took a full charge and all the components were still wrapped in the plastic packaging.
With tax I've come in under $700 though I will buy more prefilters and peel off visor covers.
I appreciate this thread and all the responses shared here.
Al in Texas

Does the hose from the hospital kit fit the M-307 helmet?

 

[Carl Scott]

Does the hose from the hospital kit fit the M-307 helmet?

Yes the hose will fit m-307 helmet

 

[Jeff Walters]

I ended up getting the Peek Powercap and do not regret it. It is light weight and the battery last much longer then any amount of time I get to spend in the shop.I highly recommend it.