new CBN wheels

[Mark Hepburn]

I'm in the market for some new CBN wheels. I'm leaning toward a 1 1/2" wide wheel to replace my rounded edge wheels. I've been out of touch with this for a while so am asking advice. I currently have a 180 and 600. Any thoughts?

 

[Chuck Engstrom]

If you have any serious aspirations to reshape tools, such as turning flat scrapers into negative rake scrapers, a 60 grit will do it faster than any finer wheel, a 180 would be pretty slow though many folks see it as the most useful single grit. 600 is nice and may save some steel but not a game changer for most work. Right now I have 320 and 180 on one grinder, and 60 on a separate grinder for reshaping. 80 and 180 is a pretty common pairing, I think.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

If you have any serious aspirations to reshape tools, such as turning flat scrapers into negative rake scrapers, a 60 grit will do it faster than any finer wheel, a 180 would be pretty slow though many folks see it as the most useful single grit. 600 is nice and may save some steel but not a game changer for most work. Right now I have 320 and 180 on one grinder, and 60 on a separate grinder for reshaping. 80 and 180 is a pretty common pairing, I think.

The closest thing I come to reshaping is putting an Ellsworth flute on a couple of small gouges. Other than that all I'm really doing is sharpening. I've been using the 600 for putting on a "final" edge for shear cutting and so on. How often do you find yourself using the 320? I don't / won't have room in my shop for another grinder so two is my max.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

I've got 180 and a recent 600. That 600, whoa! Sh-sh-sh-sharp!

I'm a sharpener, new profiles happen once. I have a second 6" high speed grinder with AO wheels, the course grit will remove steel quickly. So will a 36 grit belt on a belt sander, just make sure all wood dust is off the sander, including inside the machine and dust ports, as not to spark a fire.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Anybody have the CBN wheels with grit on the side also? Is there a big benefit to it? I have the radiused edge and I guess I'm too clumsy to not let the tool slip off the side when sharpening.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I've got 180 and a recent 600. That 600, whoa! Sh-sh-sh-sharp!

I'm a sharpener, new profiles happen once. I have a second 6" high speed grinder with AO wheels, the course grit will remove steel quickly. So will a 36 grit belt on a belt sander, just make sure all wood dust is off the sander, including inside the machine and dust ports, as not to spark a fire.

Yes, the 600 is pretty good at getting a sharp edge, isn't it?

 

[Fred Hargis]

I have then with the grit on the side and I'm not sure I ever used it.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I have then with the grit on the side and I'm not sure I ever used it.

Thanks Fred.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Another question: anybody have thoughts on the better brands?

 

[Steve Nix]

I have a the 180 and 320. Wide wheel with side grit. The side is good for sharpening hss hollowing cutters like Trent Bosch and John Jordon’s by hand. I hardly ever use the 320, sharper, but dulls quicker

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I have a the 180 and 320. Wide wheel with side grit. The side is good for sharpening hss hollowing cutters like Trent Bosch and John Jordon’s by hand. I hardly ever use the 320, sharper, but dulls quicker

Thanks Steve. I've come to like the 600 grit wheel and wonder if another grit may be better for my needs. 180 and x.

 

[Fred Hargis]

I don't know if they're considered the "better brands" but mine are the ones from Woodturning Wonders. That place has kind fell apart recently, but the wheels I have top notch.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I don't know if they're considered the "better brands" but mine are the ones from Woodturning Wonders. That place has kind fell apart recently, but the wheels I have top notch.

I was actually looking at their wheels today. What grit are you using?

 

[Adrian Wilson]

I haven't bought CBN yet, but heading that way. Have a look at the new D-Way wheels... they claim they are the next generation. May change the grits you are thinking about. That is probably where I would go, except, I'm in Canada and with exchange and the border, I basically can't buy in the US now. https://d-waytools.com/cbn-grinding-wheels

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I haven't bought CBN yet, but heading that way. Have a look at the new D-Way wheels... they claim they are the next generation. May change the grits you are thinking about. That is probably where I would go, except, I'm in Canada and with exchange and the border, I basically can't buy in the US now. https://d-waytools.com/cbn-grinding-wheels

I'll check. Yes, the tariff situation is exasperating. My dearly beloved and I were just in Niagara Falls (Canadian side) this past April. We got in before all this started in earnest.

I just looked on the map and you're way up there! I went to visit Steven Kennard a few years back in Canning in November. What a lovely place to be - in Nova Scotia, I mean

 

[John K Jordan]

I'm in the market for some new CBN wheels. I'm leaning toward a 1 1/2" wide wheel to replace my rounded edge wheels. I've been out of touch with this for a while so am asking advice. I currently have a 180 and 600. Any thoughts?

@Mark Hepburn
To address things in your various posts. Some of this, of course, is like the thoughts in my brain - bouncing around and without coherent organizations.

I like the wide wheels the best. They are better for sharpening skews and have more room for sharpening other things.

The rounded corners on CBN wheels are useful to only a few people I understand they were designed for those sharpening long hollowing tools where the cutters were brazed into place and couldn't be removed. Rather that swing the long tool through an arc to shape/sharpen the curved wings, the rounded edges allowed holding the tool straight and simply moving it over the left and right rounded edges. The think is, many of the commercial hollowing tools have removable bits. For example those the late, great John Jordan sold not only had removable/replaceable cutters but he offered a small sharpening jig for them. I have the set of hollowing tools and cutters and they work well.

I always buy wheels with corners on the sides and 1" of grid flat down the side and use the sides a lot. I find the combination useful for creating a number of custom tools. One I designed to cut recesses into a blank while clearing support from the tailstock. I used the square corners on a 60 grit wheel to shape and use the corners and side flats on the 600 grit wheel to sharpen. This tool has be invaluable. Use them for other purposes too.



One unorthodox but quick use of the side grit on a CBN wheel is to dress up a carbon steel screwdriver and make it like new again. Contrary to some advice, it doesn't affect the CBN wheel (not grinding heavy.) I also use CBN to shorten or reshape set screws, awls, round caliper jaws for sizing, and far more.

I have other pictures showing the value of the 60 grit wheel but can't post more pics in this messages.
I did have an 80 grit wheel before I got the 60 and gave the 80 away. Doesn't seem like it would be much difference but the 60 grit cuts hard HSS SO much better, at least in my opinion which is what counts to me.

BTW, as an aside I don't make "Elseworth" or "40/40" grinds or any other grinds touted by experts and professional demonstrators. I make JKJ grinds that work for me, on bowl gouges, spindle gouges, skews, parting tools, point tools, etc. I try grinding one way and if it doesn't work as well I try something else until I find what works. I'd make a lousy grind groupie. Some demonstrators are well known for their name but may not turn any better than others. Some spout really sideways ideas - years ago I remember a famous name telling the audience the only good use for a skew was to open paint cans or use as negative rake scrapers.

FWIW, I was one of the last CBN holdouts - everyone I knew was going to CBN while I was still grinding on AL ox and the Tormek water wheel. I think I learned things from this.

At first I followed the recommendations of others and got 180 grit and 320 grit CBN wheels. There was barely any detectable difference between the two IMO in how well they cut and how well they sharpened. I gave them both away, one to a school with a kids turning program.

As I wrote several times before, after experimenting with a number of different CBN grits, I settled on three which fit my style of work and turning:
- an 8" 60 grit CBN (square edges, grit on the side) on a 1/2 speed grinder for shaping tools that require a LOT of grinding.
- an 8" 600 grit CBN with the same configuration for sharpening skews, parting tools, bowl gouges, my Wicked Point tool, all scrapers and negative rake scrapers.
- a 10" 1200 grit CBN wheel on a very slow speed Tormek for sharpening spindle gouges. I'm particular about my spindle gouges.
I want all my tools "shaving" sharp. After grinding, I remove the grinding burr with a leather stropping wheel for a razor-blade polished edge.

At first I had a 1000 grit wheel for a Tormak but the 1200 grit was a big improvement for my spindle gouges. Did I mention I was particular about them?

I gave the 1000 grit plus a spare Tormek to a woodturner friend. I have way too much stuff. As I get older I see less need for all that stuff.

- I had another bench grinder at the sharpening station with a CBN wheel and a metal polishing "hard" cloth wheel but gave the grinder to a friend setting up shop.
- a spare bench grinder is in the box in the event one of the others gives up the ghost.

I bought all my CBN wheels from Ken Rizza when he owned Woodturners Wonders and when he was helping the new owners get started.

Ken was kind enough to special order wheels he didn't normally carry, such as the 1200 grit Tormek wheels, and special order diamond honing and lapping plates at the time he was offering CBN plages. (CBN makes no sense to me for such plates since diamond cuts better than CBN and the diamond is not degraded by steel as when used on a grinding wheel.

Probably bought a dozen CBN wheels over the years. Also have a tall stack of conventional ALox wheels in the back of the shop. They might be fun to roll down the bowling alley until the management notices.

I also have two other bench grinders with conventional wheels, a Rikon at my sharpening station for heavy grinding on non HSS tools, bolts, steel plate, and other things.
A Metabo in my weld shop with a conventional wheel and a wire brush for rough grinding for lawnmower blades an prep for welding and such. This is complemented by som 4.5" side grinders and flap sanders for metal work.

I have no thoughts about other/better CBN wheel brands since I never bought any. I know people using Dway wheels. Don't know about now, but a long time ago some had problems with Dway wheels since their wheels were heavy steel which caused some lower power bench grinder to be slow to start and slow to stop. BTW, I keep a stick of wood about 2" wide, 1/4" thick, and 8" long next to my grinder with CBN wheels. I push this into the wheel behind the grind so the friction will stop the wheel very quickly. I don't like a wheel spinning for a long time.

My sharpening station at one time, changed some now. Wolverine bases and grinder mounted on 3/4" ply so they can be moved or transported to a demo. I devised a way to use Tormek jigs on a bench grinder long before Tormek decided to offer a stand to hold their jig support rod. I like to think they got the idea from me since I wrote to them, set a picture, and told them how useful it was and suggested they make one for sale. It's perfect for SOME things. (With severe ADHD I like lots of options.)




Note, I shaped the wood stand to clear the wolverine base locking handle. I had to reverse the wolverine base handle for clearance - just take it apart and reassemble it in a different way. Simple.

Just yesterday I saw some CBN wheel boxes stacked on a high shelf in the shop. I should get a step stool and see if there are wheels inside. They might make good frisbees for viscous rabid dogs trying to attack me.


JKJ

 

[Mark Hepburn]

@Mark Hepburn
To address things in your various posts. Some of this, of course, is like the thoughts in my brain - bouncing around and without coherent organizations.

I like the wide wheels the best. They are better for sharpening skews and have more room for sharpening other things.

The rounded corners on CBN wheels are useful to only a few people I understand they were designed for those sharpening long hollowing tools where the cutters were brazed into place and couldn't be removed. Rather that swing the long tool through an arc to shape/sharpen the curved wings, the rounded edges allowed holding the tool straight and simply moving it over the left and right rounded edges. The think is, many of the commercial hollowing tools have removable bits. For example those the late, great John Jordan sold not only had removable/replaceable cutters but he offered a small sharpening jig for them. I have the set of hollowing tools and cutters and they work well.

I always buy wheels with corners on the sides and 1" of grid flat down the side and use the sides a lot. I find the combination useful for creating a number of custom tools. One I designed to cut recesses into a blank while clearing support from the tailstock. I used the square corners on a 60 grit wheel to shape and use the corners and side flats on the 600 grit wheel to sharpen. This tool has be invaluable. Use them for other purposes too.

View attachment 79493 View attachment 79494

One unorthodox but quick use of the side grit on a CBN wheel is to dress up a carbon steel screwdriver and make it like new again. Contrary to some advice, it doesn't affect the CBN wheel (not grinding heavy.) I also use CBN to shorten or reshape set screws, awls, round caliper jaws for sizing, and far more.

I have other pictures showing the value of the 60 grit wheel but can't post more pics in this messages.
I did have an 80 grit wheel before I got the 60 and gave the 80 away. Doesn't seem like it would be much difference but the 60 grit cuts hard HSS SO much better, at least in my opinion which is what counts to me.

BTW, as an aside I don't make "Elseworth" or "40/40" grinds or any other grinds touted by experts and professional demonstrators. I make JKJ grinds that work for me, on bowl gouges, spindle gouges, skews, parting tools, point tools, etc. I try grinding one way and if it doesn't work as well I try something else until I find what works. I'd make a lousy grind groupie. Some demonstrators are well known for their name but may not turn any better than others. Some spout really sideways ideas - years ago I remember a famous name telling the audience the only good use for a skew was to open paint cans or use as negative rake scrapers.

FWIW, I was one of the last CBN holdouts - everyone I knew was going to CBN while I was still grinding on AL ox and the Tormek water wheel. I think I learned things from this.

At first I followed the recommendations of others and got 180 grit and 320 grit CBN wheels. There was barely any detectable difference between the two IMO in how well they cut and how well they sharpened. I gave them both away, one to a school with a kids turning program.

As I wrote several times before, after experimenting with a number of different CBN grits, I settled on three which fit my style of work and turning:
- an 8" 60 grit CBN (square edges, grit on the side) on a 1/2 speed grinder for shaping tools that require a LOT of grinding.
- an 8" 600 grit CBN with the same configuration for sharpening skews, parting tools, bowl gouges, my Wicked Point tool, all scrapers and negative rake scrapers.
- a 10" 1200 grit CBN wheel on a very slow speed Tormek for sharpening spindle gouges. I'm particular about my spindle gouges.
I want all my tools "shaving" sharp. After grinding, I remove the grinding burr with a leather stropping wheel for a razor-blade polished edge.

At first I had a 1000 grit wheel for a Tormak but the 1200 grit was a big improvement for my spindle gouges. Did I mention I was particular about them?

I gave the 1000 grit plus a spare Tormek to a woodturner friend. I have way too much stuff. As I get older I see less need for all that stuff.

- I had another bench grinder at the sharpening station with a CBN wheel and a metal polishing "hard" cloth wheel but gave the grinder to a friend setting up shop.
- a spare bench grinder is in the box in the event one of the others gives up the ghost.

I bought all my CBN wheels from Ken Rizza when he owned Woodturners Wonders and when he was helping the new owners get started.

Ken was kind enough to special order wheels he didn't normally carry, such as the 1200 grit Tormek wheels, and special order diamond honing and lapping plates at the time he was offering CBN plages. (CBN makes no sense to me for such plates since diamond cuts better than CBN and the diamond is not degraded by steel as when used on a grinding wheel.

Probably bought a dozen CBN wheels over the years. Also have a tall stack of conventional ALox wheels in the back of the shop. They might be fun to roll down the bowling alley until the management notices.

I also have two other bench grinders with conventional wheels, a Rikon at my sharpening station for heavy grinding on non HSS tools, bolts, steel plate, and other things.
A Metabo in my weld shop with a conventional wheel and a wire brush for rough grinding for lawnmower blades an prep for welding and such. This is complemented by som 4.5" side grinders and flap sanders for metal work.

I have no thoughts about other/better CBN wheel brands since I never bought any. I know people using Dway wheels. Don't know about now, but a long time ago some had problems with Dway wheels since their wheels were heavy steel which caused some lower power bench grinder to be slow to start and slow to stop. BTW, I keep a stick of wood about 2" wide, 1/4" thick, and 8" long next to my grinder with CBN wheels. I push this into the wheel behind the grind so the friction will stop the wheel very quickly. I don't like a wheel spinning for a long time.

My sharpening station at one time, changed some now. Wolverine bases and grinder mounted on 3/4" ply so they can be moved or transported to a demo. I devised a way to use Tormek jigs on a bench grinder long before Tormek decided to offer a stand to hold their jig support rod. I like to think they got the idea from me since I wrote to them, set a picture, and told them how useful it was and suggested they make one for sale. It's perfect for SOME things. (With severe ADHD I like lots of options.)

View attachment 79498
View attachment 79499

Note, I shaped the wood stand to clear the wolverine base locking handle. I had to reverse the wolverine base handle for clearance - just take it apart and reassemble it in a different way. Simple.

Just yesterday I saw some CBN wheel boxes stacked on a high shelf in the shop. I should get a step stool and see if there are wheels inside. They might make good frisbees for viscous rabid dogs trying to attack me.


JKJ

That's some setup you have! I've been looking at the wider wheels with grit on the sides earlier today, and that was on Woodturner Wonders. Prices seem competitive too. I just use the 180 a lot and don't have room for another grinder so I'm torn about grit. Do I change from my 180 / 600 set up and if so, to what. I don't really do a lot of changing to the grinds on the tools I have (but I do like the swept back grind quite a bit), so I wonder if I need something more coarse. But never having used anything lower, I don't know how much material I'd end up hogging off of my tools when I do need to sharpen, or do you only use the 60(80) for shaping?

And I do notice a difference in the 600 grit wheel finish, but is it overkill?

 

[Gord Cameron]

I have two 1/2 speed 8" grinders with four wheels: CBN 80, 320 and 600 and and a cool-running coarse aluminium oxide.

I do 95% of my sharpening on the 600: great edge and I get there fast. The others I use for shaping and changing bevels, so if I had to chose I could probably get by with the 600 and 80 (or a 60 as John suggests). The CBNs are Woodturners Wonders from several years ago.

My 80 and 320 wheels have radiused corners that I almost never use, I wish I had the extra width of square-edged wheels.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I’m starting to see some consensus for an 80 and a 600 and some of the other postings too. I wish I had room in my shop for a second grinder, but I just don’t.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I have and use 80 and 180. The 180 gets used the most as I use that for sharpening my gouges. The 80 is used only for scrapers and and a SRG. For me the 180 grit gives me the sharpness i need and the longest time between sharpening. I bought my 180 grit at an AAW Symposium from a man from Austria many many years ago and this wheel looks and sharpens like the day I got it. I always keep a grinder with 1 white stone for reshaping but now that I've cut back on my lathes and no longer giving lessons I really no longer need to have that white wheel. My grinders see me a lot less anymore as I only use Thompson tools and Hunter carbide.

 

[John K Jordan]

I wish I had room in my shop for a second grinder, but I just don’t.

Mount two grinders on a big lazy susan turtable?
Put one up high and stand on a stepstool?
Put one on a low shelf and sit on the floor?
Mount one on the wall and learn to lean?
Put the second grinder in the neighbor's garage?
Invent a quick change grinder - pop off one wheel and pop on another.
Ooo - a 3" wide wheel with two grits.
Mount one grinder in the back of the SUV?
A pop-up sharpening tent? (Until I built a building out back, the shop in my first house was on the front porch. Less than ideal.)
Oh, I know, one can go in the kitchen or on the dining table!! (I'd be throwing away 55 years of marriage in one day if I tried sharpening in the house! My Lovely Bride was happy when I built the shop and finally moved out of the garage - by the time I walk up the hill to the house most of the sawdust and chips are off my clothes. )

When they finally send me to the old folks home you can move here - I built the shop 24x62 - big cyclone DC, air compressor outlets all around, heat&air, high speed internet, good exercise walking up to the house.

JKJ

 

[Webb Willmott]

I’m starting to see some consensus for an 80 and a 600 and some of the other postings too. I wish I had room in my shop for a second grinder, but I just don’t.

Those that say they are unable to do something are right.

Seems like you said you will have a grinding station. Why not build a flip cabinet that uses no more space and has the same footprint. And since you are in a small shop, might be useful for another pare of tools.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

@Mark Hepburn, I just read through this thread again, but concentrating on your replies. I say this respectfully- I see that you have one sound reason to switch, to move away from rounded edges, and the rest of your replies seem, to me, that you might be looking for a solution to a problem that may not exist for you, and that's the grit change.

Let's pretend for a moment. After the 24 hours of this thread's life, and all the replies and consideration, and plenty of dwelling on it in your mind before this thread and since, you now have exactly three seconds to make a choice (which I'll make here on your behalf, just for fun). 180/600, done, order confirmation sent to your email inbox. (But Steve, these are the grits I use now!)

Did you just breathe a sigh of relief and contentment, now being free to go about other plans for the day? Or are you feeling some sort of doubt, a case of the "yeah, buts and what ifs"? If you feel relief, well done, you made the right choice based on a satisfactory personal history of performance. If you feel doubtul about that choice, I'll guess it is the 180 grit feeling unsettled in your gut, and maybe more for subjective reasons rather than objective. If so, experment and drop it down to one of the other more course choices, which could satisfy that more rare need (by your replies) for effective and speedy reshaping of a tool. After all, for the thousand or so registered users on the board, and the several dozen that write often, there are hundreds of thousands of turners around the globe effectively sharpening their tools with nothing more that a course-medium grit rock-style grinding wheel. If you find you don't care for the more course grit, part ways with it and put your 180 (or a new 180) back on the machine.
-----------------------------

Jumping tracks for a moment...
Personally, I'm not in the camp of edge philosophy that would suggest a certain grit for one profile of turning tool and another grit for another profile of turning tool. I'll use "course" grit to reshape a piece of steel, and I'll use a "fine grit" to sharpen a piece of steel. "Toothy" serrated edges separate (tear, rather than cut) fibers (from foods to textiles to the hardest of hardwoods) from more of a microscopic tearing action vs. the clean shearing action of a finely sharpened edge (yes, that term can be subjective until more closely defines). Steel alloy composition, grinding/sharpening/honing processes of the steel, and the material to be cut are the three legs of the triangle of consideration. Overall, for shearing away wood fiber waste and leaving a clean surface that requires little abrasive cleanup afterward, finely sharpened, keen, non-toothy tool edges from finer grit abrasives are going to benefit the woodworker/woodturner better than the edge that, under a visual magnifier, looks more like individual course saw teeth. Talk to regular users of hand planes, bench chisels, fabric shears, and scalpels.

The grit of the wheel is direclty proportional to the microscopic fineness of the edge. Your 600 grit wheel puts a better, more uniform cutting edge on every wood than your 180 grit wheel. The 600 grit serrations are over 3x finer that the 180 grit, and 10x finer than a 60 grit, in the most simplistic terms. In other words, there is more steel doing the work at the edge of a 600 grit grind than a courser grit. That said, any of us can remove a mountain of shavings straight off a 60 grit alum. oxide wheel. It's all a matter of relativity.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, I have CBN wheels from 80 to 1000 grit. The ones I use the most are 80, 180, and 600. The 180 grit wheel will do 95% of all the sharpening you will do. I use the 600 for skew chisels and if the wood is being too soft and/or not cutting cleanly enough so I end up spending more time sanding.... Hate that! The 320 wheel is not enough of a step up as far as I am concerned, but there is a considerable difference if you go to the 600. Most of the time, I grind my NRSs on a 320 wheel. I do have one WTW wheel, and the rest are from D Way. I consider them friends. Dave Schweitzer and Jimmy Allen both. As for the "flat" on the side, I don't consider that essential. Not even sure I would use it on plane irons or bench chisels, though some swear by a flat bevel. If I need to reshape a tool, I have a belt sander with a 36 grit belt on it. I only use that for drastic changes. 80 grit takes a while. I think Dave Schweitzer used a 10 inch 60 grit wheel for shaping his tools.

robo hippy

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Those that say they are unable to do something are right.

Seems like you said you will have a grinding station. Why not build a flip cabinet that uses no more space and has the same footprint. And since you are in a small shop, might be useful for another pare of tools.

Good saying. I think it was Vince Lombardi, who said there are those who think they can’t and those who think they can. They’re both right.

I hadn’t thought of the flip idea, but that is a really good idea. And it solves all my issues with a small weekend project.

 

[Mark Hepburn]

@Mark Hepburn, I just read through this thread again, but concentrating on your replies. I say this respectfully- I see that you have one sound reason to switch, to move away from rounded edges, and the rest of your replies seem, to me, that you might be looking for a solution to a problem that may not exist for you, and that's the grit change.

Let's pretend for a moment. After the 24 hours of this thread's life, and all the replies and consideration, and plenty of dwelling on it in your mind before this thread and since, you now have exactly three seconds to make a choice (which I'll make here on your behalf, just for fun). 180/600, done, order confirmation sent to your email inbox. (But Steve, these are the grits I use now!)

Did you just breathe a sigh of relief and contentment, now being free to go about other plans for the day? Or are you feeling some sort of doubt, a case of the "yeah, buts and what ifs"? If you feel relief, well done, you made the right choice based on a satisfactory personal history of performance. If you feel doubtul about that choice, I'll guess it is the 180 grit feeling unsettled in your gut, and maybe more for subjective reasons rather than objective. If so, experment and drop it down to one of the other more course choices, which could satisfy that more rare need (by your replies) for effective and speedy reshaping of a tool. After all, for the thousand or so registered users on the board, and the several dozen that write often, there are hundreds of thousands of turners around the globe effectively sharpening their tools with nothing more that a course-medium grit rock-style grinding wheel. If you find you don't care for the more course grit, part ways with it and put your 180 (or a new 180) back on the machine.
-----------------------------

Jumping tracks for a moment...
Personally, I'm not in the camp of edge philosophy that would suggest a certain grit for one profile of turning tool and another grit for another profile of turning tool. I'll use "course" grit to reshape a piece of steel, and I'll use a "fine grit" to sharpen a piece of steel. "Toothy" serrated edges separate (tear, rather than cut) fibers (from foods to textiles to the hardest of hardwoods) from more of a microscopic tearing action vs. the clean shearing action of a finely sharpened edge (yes, that term can be subjective until more closely defines). Steel alloy composition, grinding/sharpening/honing processes of the steel, and the material to be cut are the three legs of the triangle of consideration. Overall, for shearing away wood fiber waste and leaving a clean surface that requires little abrasive cleanup afterward, finely sharpened, keen, non-toothy tool edges from finer grit abrasives are going to benefit the woodworker/woodturner better than the edge that, under a visual magnifier, looks more like individual course saw teeth. Talk to regular users of hand planes, bench chisels, fabric shears, and scalpels.

The grit of the wheel is direclty proportional to the microscopic fineness of the edge. Your 600 grit wheel puts a better, more uniform cutting edge on every wood than your 180 grit wheel. The 600 grit serrations are over 3x finer that the 180 grit, and 10x finer than a 60 grit, in the most simplistic terms. In other words, there is more steel doing the work at the edge of a 600 grit grind than a courser grit. That said, any of us can remove a mountain of shavings straight off a 60 grit alum. oxide wheel. It's all a matter of relativity.

@Mark Hepburn, I just read through this thread again, but concentrating on your replies. I say this respectfully- I see that you have one sound reason to switch, to move away from rounded edges, and the rest of your replies seem, to me, that you might be looking for a solution to a problem that may not exist for you, and that's the grit change.

Let's pretend for a moment. After the 24 hours of this thread's life, and all the replies and consideration, and plenty of dwelling on it in your mind before this thread and since, you now have exactly three seconds to make a choice (which I'll make here on your behalf, just for fun). 180/600, done, order confirmation sent to your email inbox. (But Steve, these are the grits I use now!)

Did you just breathe a sigh of relief and contentment, now being free to go about other plans for the day? Or are you feeling some sort of doubt, a case of the "yeah, buts and what ifs"? If you feel relief, well done, you made the right choice based on a satisfactory personal history of performance. If you feel doubtul about that choice, I'll guess it is the 180 grit feeling unsettled in your gut, and maybe more for subjective reasons rather than objective. If so, experment and drop it down to one of the other more course choices, which could satisfy that more rare need (by your replies) for effective and speedy reshaping of a tool. After all, for the thousand or so registered users on the board, and the several dozen that write often, there are hundreds of thousands of turners around the globe effectively sharpening their tools with nothing more that a course-medium grit rock-style grinding wheel. If you find you don't care for the more course grit, part ways with it and put your 180 (or a new 180) back on the machine.
-----------------------------

Jumping tracks for a moment...
Personally, I'm not in the camp of edge philosophy that would suggest a certain grit for one profile of turning tool and another grit for another profile of turning tool. I'll use "course" grit to reshape a piece of steel, and I'll use a "fine grit" to sharpen a piece of steel. "Toothy" serrated edges separate (tear, rather than cut) fibers (from foods to textiles to the hardest of hardwoods) from more of a microscopic tearing action vs. the clean shearing action of a finely sharpened edge (yes, that term can be subjective until more closely defines). Steel alloy composition, grinding/sharpening/honing processes of the steel, and the material to be cut are the three legs of the triangle of consideration. Overall, for shearing away wood fiber waste and leaving a clean surface that requires little abrasive cleanup afterward, finely sharpened, keen, non-toothy tool edges from finer grit abrasives are going to benefit the woodworker/woodturner better than the edge that, under a visual magnifier, looks more like individual course saw teeth. Talk to regular users of hand planes, bench chisels, fabric shears, and scalpels.

The grit of the wheel is direclty proportional to the microscopic fineness of the edge. Your 600 grit wheel puts a better, more uniform cutting edge on every wood than your 180 grit wheel. The 600 grit serrations are over 3x finer that the 180 grit, and 10x finer than a 60 grit, in the most simplistic terms. In other words, there is more steel doing the work at the edge of a 600 grit grind than a courser grit. That said, any of us can remove a mountain of shavings straight off a 60 grit alum. oxide wheel. It's all a matter of relativity.

Steve, thank you for your thoughtful reply. I think you wait it out pretty well for me and the truth is if I was picking a grit with three seconds to choose I would add an 80 grit wheel and use second grinder on a flip stand.

So that’s what I’m gonna do. First of all additional cost I can have a nice stand with a drawer two in it, and I can add a buffing wheel to the other side of my second grinder.

I really appreciate all the thoughts that everybody provided. And I have a go forward plan thanks!

Well, I have CBN wheels from 80 to 1000 grit. The ones I use the most are 80, 180, and 600. The 180 grit wheel will do 95% of all the sharpening you will do. I use the 600 for skew chisels and if the wood is being too soft and/or not cutting cleanly enough so I end up spending more time sanding.... Hate that! The 320 wheel is not enough of a step up as far as I am concerned, but there is a considerable difference if you go to the 600. Most of the time, I grind my NRSs on a 320 wheel. I do have one WTW wheel, and the rest are from D Way. I consider them friends. Dave Schweitzer and Jimmy Allen both. As for the "flat" on the side, I don't consider that essential. Not even sure I would use it on plane irons or bench chisels, though some swear by a flat bevel. If I need to reshape a tool, I have a belt sander with a 36 grit belt on it. I only use that for drastic changes. 80 grit takes a while. I think Dave Schweitzer used a 10 inch 60 grit wheel for shaping his tools.

robo hippy

Thanks, Robo. I do like flat bevel on my bench chisels. And I’m wondering if it would work on some of those carbide cutters. I only use a couple of those mainly for pen turning because they’re easy and cheap and fast.

I don’t wanna go as far down as 36 bit because I’m not confident in my ability to use something that course and I don’t do a lot of reshaping. I mostly use Thompson and crown PM Tools with a couple of odd ones too. And I’m pretty happy with the bevel that they come with.

But I do have an occasional need so I’m gonna go with an 80 grit and keep the 180 and 600 grits and get a second grinder

 

[Mark Hepburn]

I'd be throwing away 55 years of marriage in one day if I tried sharpening in the house

I am familiar with this . Also don’t clean paint brushes in the kitchen sink. You know how I know that

 

[Fred Hargis]

I was actually looking at their wheels today. What grit are you using?

Sorry about being late getting back to this, the ones i bought are 180 and 350. Being quite a bit more inexperienced than many(most) around here these seem to do everything very well for me.

 

[Adrian Wilson]

Those that say they are unable to do something are right.

Seems like you said you will have a grinding station. Why not build a flip cabinet that uses no more space and has the same footprint. And since you are in a small shop, might be useful for another pare of tools.

Oh, that solves a problem for me....going to do that with a spindle sander and a disk sander.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Sounds like a dandy plan, Mark. Best of all worlds!

 

[Tom Gall]

@Mark Hepburn Just to throw a wrench into this discussion ..... I have a 180 grit (D-Way since 2013) that I'm perfectly happy with and an 80 grit (WTW since 2015) that I'm sort of happy with. I don't think the #80 is "coarse" enough for reshaping tools. Of course, it gets the job done but takes too long in my opinion. Don't know if they make a CBN wheel in the 20-40 grit range.

 

[John K Jordan]

@Mark Hepburn Just to throw a wrench into this discussion ..... I have a 180 grit (D-Way since 2013) that I'm perfectly happy with and an 80 grit (WTW since 2015) that I'm sort of happy with. I don't think the #80 is "coarse" enough for reshaping tools. Of course, it gets the job done but takes too long in my opinion. Don't know if they make a CBN wheel in the 20-40 grit range.

I mentioned earlier that switching from 80 grit to 60 grit made a big difference. I often remove a lot of metal when shaping my favorite curved negative rake scrapers and other tools.

At the time, Ken Rizza at Woodturners Wonders was happy to custom order any grit I wanted. Don't know about now with the new owners and any overseas issues.

JKJ