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Non-Yellowing Finish

Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
33
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17
Location
Canton, GA
I'm interested in finding a non-yellowing finish acceptable for Holly. I know spray on lacquer will come up, but I was looking for something more along the lines of an oil or Osmo. I am just looking to see what is out there.

Update @ 02-23-26 15:01 Thank you for all the great recommendations. Did not do a search prior to posting so that will be done first on the next go around. Great info to move forward on.
 
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I don't think you're going to have any luck with oils. Any oil with its own natural color is going to change the color of the wood.

Water-bases varnishes, lacquer, and, as discusses in this thread, shellac, are your likely choices.

Straight wax as a finish will offer very little protection, but in that thread I mention a couple carnuba paste waxes that have served me well. But, I've not used them as a sole finish.
 
Basically stay away from oil anything in the way of finishes, look for water based.
 
I had a thread a while back about non-yellowing finishes. There are not too many options, and generally speaking its either water-based finishes (which I have tried, and thus far, I have not liked the results with any of them...the high solids content limits the finish penetration into the wood, and that has a marked effect on the final results...you can tell its a film coating the wood, rather than something penetrating the wood, which limits the quality of the chatoyance, etc.), or ultra blond shellac.

I purchased some ultra blond shellac to finish some holly pieces. So far, it is the only finish that did not impart a noticable yellowing, that also still penetrates enough to really bring out the chatoyance. There is a very slight yellowing, even with the ultra blond, but it was not strong enough to impart an actual yellow appearance to the holly. I've sold two of those pieces, and the customers both stated it was the whitest, brightest wood work they had ever seen, and were satisfied with what they bought. One of the guys in particular was a real fan of American Holly, and was fairly emphatic about the fact that the wood was still white (with a little bit of gray here and there.) With the shellac, you can tune the shine by polishing more and with finer sandpapers. One thing to note, the shinier the finish is, the more the slight yellowing it imparts is noticable. I've finished some pieces with more of a matte or barely visible satin sheen, and it seems to preserve the natural color better. That may not be optimal for many...best I've found so far, though, especially for bright/light maples, holly, etc.

There is one other finish that I've used lately, which while it does impart some warming, it is less than any of the linseed-based finishes that I've used: Tung Oil. It appears more orangish in the can (or stop loss bag, as is usually the case for me), however upon application it has less of a color-changing effect than any poly, oli+wax, pure linseed, or other types of finishes I've used. It DOES have an effect, just not as strong, and I feel more of the natural color of the wood is preserved with Tung than other oils. The key challenge with oils, especially pure, is the time it takes for them to dry and to cure. To get a satin sheen with Tung, it usually takes 4-6 coats, which can require days of application, and then likely 2-3 weeks of time to properly cure. So it is not a fast finish, and water-based finishes have oil fully beat here as they will usually dry very quickly and be fully cured within a day.

Many water-based finishes are very clear and colorless. If you don't have any issues with the way water based finishes look in the end, then they might be an option. I've tried Polycrylic, which I just cannot stand (for a multitude of reasons), and it really looks like a sloppy plastic coating when its fully cured. I've tried some other water-based finishes, some of which start out milky white then cure clear. I have found that these milky-white finishes, often have a SEVERE yellowing problem. I first noticed it on a piece I'd finished with one of these a couple of years ago...it had notably warmed. I then found the bottle, now about two years old, and all the stuff that had gummed up the cap and outsides of the bottle, had turns a brilliant orange. More orange than any oil-based product I've ever used. I also have something called CraftCoat, which is another water-based finish. It does not yellow, however I've used it on some pens...and over time, it did not seem to age well. It is still clear, but the surface has lost the shiny smooth finish I originally gave it, it seems it has started to expose the nature of the wood grain (??) and it very much looks like a surface of plastic over wood. In contrast, pens finished with CA (GluBoost specifically) still look perfect years after they were created, just as crystal clear as they ever were (only plastic finish I actually like :P).

Again, there may be application techniques that solve some of the problems I've encountered with water-based finishes...I have never had time to try and figure out on waste pieces or anything like that and I've been unwilling to try on any pieces I hope to sell, if I could get the results I am looking for, which thus far I have only been able to achieve with oil-based finishes. The way oil penetrates the wood fibers, it brings out characteristics that a surface-only film just can't do, and I have yet to find a water-based finish that penetrates to any meaningful degree.
 
I had a thread a while back about non-yellowing finishes. There are not too many options, and generally speaking its either water-based finishes (which I have tried, and thus far, I have not liked the results with any of them...the high solids content limits the finish penetration into the wood, and that has a marked effect on the final results...you can tell its a film coating the wood, rather than something penetrating the wood, which limits the quality of the chatoyance, etc.), or ultra blond shellac.

I purchased some ultra blond shellac to finish some holly pieces. So far, it is the only finish that did not impart a noticable yellowing, that also still penetrates enough to really bring out the chatoyance. There is a very slight yellowing, even with the ultra blond, but it was not strong enough to impart an actual yellow appearance to the holly. I've sold two of those pieces, and the customers both stated it was the whitest, brightest wood work they had ever seen, and were satisfied with what they bought. One of the guys in particular was a real fan of American Holly, and was fairly emphatic about the fact that the wood was still white (with a little bit of gray here and there.) With the shellac, you can tune the shine by polishing more and with finer sandpapers. One thing to note, the shinier the finish is, the more the slight yellowing it imparts is noticable. I've finished some pieces with more of a matte or barely visible satin sheen, and it seems to preserve the natural color better. That may not be optimal for many...best I've found so far, though, especially for bright/light maples, holly, etc.

There is one other finish that I've used lately, which while it does impart some warming, it is less than any of the linseed-based finishes that I've used: Tung Oil. It appears more orangish in the can (or stop loss bag, as is usually the case for me), however upon application it has less of a color-changing effect than any poly, oli+wax, pure linseed, or other types of finishes I've used. It DOES have an effect, just not as strong, and I feel more of the natural color of the wood is preserved with Tung than other oils. The key challenge with oils, especially pure, is the time it takes for them to dry and to cure. To get a satin sheen with Tung, it usually takes 4-6 coats, which can require days of application, and then likely 2-3 weeks of time to properly cure. So it is not a fast finish, and water-based finishes have oil fully beat here as they will usually dry very quickly and be fully cured within a day.

Many water-based finishes are very clear and colorless. If you don't have any issues with the way water based finishes look in the end, then they might be an option. I've tried Polycrylic, which I just cannot stand (for a multitude of reasons), and it really looks like a sloppy plastic coating when its fully cured. I've tried some other water-based finishes, some of which start out milky white then cure clear. I have found that these milky-white finishes, often have a SEVERE yellowing problem. I first noticed it on a piece I'd finished with one of these a couple of years ago...it had notably warmed. I then found the bottle, now about two years old, and all the stuff that had gummed up the cap and outsides of the bottle, had turns a brilliant orange. More orange than any oil-based product I've ever used. I also have something called CraftCoat, which is another water-based finish. It does not yellow, however I've used it on some pens...and over time, it did not seem to age well. It is still clear, but the surface has lost the shiny smooth finish I originally gave it, it seems it has started to expose the nature of the wood grain (??) and it very much looks like a surface of plastic over wood. In contrast, pens finished with CA (GluBoost specifically) still look perfect years after they were created, just as crystal clear as they ever were (only plastic finish I actually like :P).

Again, there may be application techniques that solve some of the problems I've encountered with water-based finishes...I have never had time to try and figure out on waste pieces or anything like that and I've been unwilling to try on any pieces I hope to sell, if I could get the results I am looking for, which thus far I have only been able to achieve with oil-based finishes. The way oil penetrates the wood fibers, it brings out characteristics that a surface-only film just can't do, and I have yet to find a water-based finish that penetrates to any meaningful degree.
 
Oh, I forgot about one other finish I tried. I've used it a little bit, but, disruptions in my ability to turn, have not allowed me to explore it as much as I wanted: Lacquer. While not all lacquers are totally clear, most have little if any effect on color. I had tried some lacquers in the past, mostly Watco, and never quite liked the results. I had always heard that Deft was the best, but could never find any (I only started turning in 2020). I eventually discovered that the company that made Deft was bought by PPG, who rebranded it as ProLuxe. I bought some ProLuxe gloss, and so far I have liked it. It is sold as a non-yellowing formulation...but, it is nitrocellulose, which technically can yellow with age. I haven't been using it long enough to know, so maybe someone who has had long experience with Deft/ProLuxe could chime in. Compared to other lacquers, ProLuxe has been easier to use and the resulting finish just seems superior. (And appears very clear and colorless, at least within the first year.)
 
If you want a lacquer like finish without the nasty stuff Target coatings makes 2 water based types that do not require sanding between coats. The Emtech 7000hbl stays clear. They make it in flat to gloss. Your supposed to spray it but if you saturate a rag and apply it quick it stays wet long enough to spread out. I personally thin it out 30% and spray it with an airbrush on most of my turnings unless its real big.
 
Pretty much any finish that penetrates and then cures and hardens will change the color. Any surface finish which does not penetrate will keep the color pretty much the same. This includes water based finishes and spray lacquers. Osmo will darken the wood a bit. Same with Rubio Monocote, and the newer LED finishes which cure instantly with UV light.

robo hippy
 
Pretty much any finish that penetrates and then cures and hardens will change the color. Any surface finish which does not penetrate will keep the color pretty much the same. This includes water based finishes and spray lacquers. Osmo will darken the wood a bit. Same with Rubio Monocote, and the newer LED finishes which cure instantly with UV light.

robo hippy

FWIW, there is a "change in color" (which I think is maybe a misnomer), and then there is yellowing or ambering. I would say these two things are distinctly different, and shouldn't be conflated.

The nature of dry wood fibers is that they scatter light differently than saturated wood fibers. It doesn't much matter if they are saturated with water, oil, shellac, or something else, this "darkening" or "color change" as it is often called, would still produce what I would call NATURAL color. When a finish penetrates the surface of the wood and those top layers of fibers, it is changing how the wood surface scatters light. Dry fibers with air "saturating" them will scatter light more, and more randomly...which is why dry wood often seems lighter/brighter, whereas fibers saturated with water (i.e. green wood) or oil will scatter light less, and the index of refraction in the spaces between the fibers will be different.

IMHO, this is different than YELLOWING or AMBERING of the wood as a result of the nature of the finish. Oils will darken, as they are saturate the surface fibers and fill in those spaces that were filled with air, with something that has a dramatically different index of refraction, thus changing how light interacts with the surface, refracts through it and reflects/scatters off it. In ADDITION to that, oil will impart some degree of yellowing, which will increase over time as the oil continues to cure. Shellac will impart some yellowing as well, although with an ultra-blonde shellac its quite minimal.

In my experience, even some surface film forming water-based finishes, in fact I have one right here that is the worst of the lot as far as I've encountered: General Finishes Water Based Wood Turner's Finish (Clear), will also yellow or amber. This GF stuff turns a VIBRANT ORANGE, and really started to do so within about a year, and now two years or so on, its ridiculously orange. It is probably the worst offender as far as overt, warming color-change goes, I've never seen any other finish end up this brilliant of an orange before. This stuff starts out a thick milky white, mostly opaque, then dries clear...but the ambering is so significant that it has a notable impact on the color of finished pieces within a year or so. So I wouldn't say it is only penetrating finishes that yellow...this stuff is a water based film finish, and it is ludicrously orange now (at least, the stuff that has dried around the top of the bottle, the cap, etc.) The uncured stuff is still milk white.

Just thought I'd share, so that there isn't an undue misconception that only penetrating finishes yellow, and that all water-based are fine. I don't know if anyone has done any kind of experiment or study to determine which finishes yellow the most. I also have a water based wood sealer, also milky white, that I think has exhibited some yellowing over the years as well. Since I don't do water based finishes much, I haven't used it nearly as much as shellac or cellulose based sealers. Just wanted to note, just because it is water based or a film forming finish, doesn't necessarily mean its never ever going to yellow.
 
I did testing on what finishes yellow the least on woods like holly, maple and several others. Krylon fixatif won hands-down. You dont even know its on the wood unless you buff it. If you soray several coats then buff it to make it glossier it yellows very very slightly but still less than the others. I trued several lacquer abd water based finishes. All yellow to some extent.
 
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