Oneway Coring System with end grain cuts

[Greg Haggard]

Wasn't sure whether to tag this onto another Oneway thread, but it seems unique enough to start a new discussion.

I have a long-term plan to cut large goblet shaped drums from green end-grain heartwood maple. Until a recent introduction into coring, I thought it was going to be a slow wasteful slog of woodchips and sweat. Coring makes so much sense, not only from a work perspective, but having useful blanks to work with is much more practical than bags of wood chips.

The drum will have the pith removed prior to drying; the bowls would obviously not. Not sure how that will play out, but I know there are end grain bowls out there.

The primary thing I wonder about is how coring works with end grain cuts in green wood. If anyone has insight, I would greatly appreciate it!

 

[Donna Banfield]

Wasn't sure whether to tag this onto another Oneway thread, but it seems unique enough to start a new discussion.

I have a long-term plan to cut large goblet shaped drums from green end-grain heartwood maple. Until a recent introduction into coring, I thought it was going to be a slow wasteful slog of woodchips and sweat. Coring makes so much sense, not only from a work perspective, but having useful blanks to work with is much more practical than bags of wood chips.

The drum will have the pith removed prior to drying; the bowls would obviously not. Not sure how that will play out, but I know there are end grain bowls out there.

The primary thing I wonder about is how coring works with end grain cuts in green wood. If anyone has insight, I would greatly appreciate it!

If you have done any end-grain turning, you will recall that it is done from the center, out towards the rim. A pilot hole is drilled in the center of the blank, either using a drill bit, or using a sharp 3/8" spindle gouge. The cuts are made by putting the tool into that hole and pulling the cutting edge to the left toward the edge or rim of the blank. This is the most efficient way to cut because of the orientation of the grain, which is running parallel to the bed of the lathe. If you tried to cut downward, just as you would cutting a side-grain bowl, the grain would strongly resist the cut. That's because all the grain is tightly bound together in that orientation, and it's quite strong.

Another way of visualizing this, take a large paintbrush, and grab the bristles just above the metal ferule, and squeeze them together. Now, with all those individual bristles bound in a bunch, try to push down on the top of the bunched bristles with your other hand, or with a tool. They will resist your efforts. But if you (in theory) could drill a small hole in the middle of that bristle bunch, and put the tool in, and cut from the side, drawing away, it's a lot easier.

Typically, coring blanks is done when the wood is presented as side grain. The cores are cut in the same way that you would hollow out a single bowl. That said, I know that it is possible to take a core from a log, in end-grain orientation. Peter Bloch made lamp shades for over 30 years, from Quaking Aspen logs. He used a Dennis Stewart arm brace, and a McNaughton straight cutter to cut a core out, which he used for smaller diameter shades for desk lamps. I've watched him do it. It was a single chunk, taken out to reduce the weight, and time it took to remove the interior of those 18–22-inch diameter logs. It was slow going, compared to how quickly a bowl coring set up can make multiple bowl blanks. It can be done. Slow and tedious, but still faster than trying to use a bowl or spindle gouge (or even a hook tool) to remove all that wood.

I hope this helps. If you try it, let us know how it worked for you.

 

[Richard Coers]

Your last discussion involved cottonwood as a material. That is one of the few woods that does not make sense to core.

 

[robo hippy]

End grain cores do work, but they generally progress more slowly than side/bowl grian cores. If you have the stock Oneway coring bit, as far as I am concerned, it is a terrible desagn, which is why so many switch to the Hunter Core Pro from Hunter tools. A much more efficient design and cutter. I did see one You Tube video some years back where some guy had a Volkswagon Beetle up on jacks, and he had a huge auger bit on one wheel, and he was coring out Djembe style drums from log sections. It can be done. I have seen it done with a chainsaw also. I would guess that if you want to go into production, then methods would change....

robo hippy

 

[Doug Freeman]

I’ve done quite a few end grain cores (woodcut bowlsaver 2 blade).

One thing really different with end grain - make sure to position the rig so the cutter goes through center. Unlike x-grain where the core with an 1” or so hub center can be popped out buy cracking along the grain, end grain needs to be cut through. I learned the hard way - pulled the center right out of a core using a crow bar.

Other than that, it isn’t much different. One thing I like to do is take a length of log and start the coring cut on the OD, and for the next core move down the OD and cut another, etc. You end up with multiple “cores” that are the same OD.

 

[Greg Haggard]

Your last discussion involved cottonwood as a material. That is one of the few woods that does not make sense to core.

Actually, I posted a video of someone making a drum from cottonwood more for a conceptual approach rather than the wood. Good to know it wouldn't be worth using coring techniques for it

 

[Greg Haggard]

If you have done any end-grain turning, you will recall that it is done from the center, out towards the rim. A pilot hole is drilled in the center of the blank, either using a drill bit, or using a sharp 3/8" spindle gouge. The cuts are made by putting the tool into that hole and pulling the cutting edge to the left toward the edge or rim of the blank. This is the most efficient way to cut because of the orientation of the grain, which is running parallel to the bed of the lathe. If you tried to cut downward, just as you would cutting a side-grain bowl, the grain would strongly resist the cut. That's because all the grain is tightly bound together in that orientation, and it's quite strong.

Another way of visualizing this, take a large paintbrush, and grab the bristles just above the metal ferule, and squeeze them together. Now, with all those individual bristles bound in a bunch, try to push down on the top of the bunched bristles with your other hand, or with a tool. They will resist your efforts. But if you (in theory) could drill a small hole in the middle of that bristle bunch, and put the tool in, and cut from the side, drawing away, it's a lot easier.

Typically, coring blanks is done when the wood is presented as side grain. The cores are cut in the same way that you would hollow out a single bowl. That said, I know that it is possible to take a core from a log, in end-grain orientation. Peter Bloch made lamp shades for over 30 years, from Quaking Aspen logs. He used a Dennis Stewart arm brace, and a McNaughton straight cutter to cut a core out, which he used for smaller diameter shades for desk lamps. I've watched him do it. It was a single chunk, taken out to reduce the weight, and time it took to remove the interior of those 18–22-inch diameter logs. It was slow going, compared to how quickly a bowl coring set up can make multiple bowl blanks. It can be done. Slow and tedious, but still faster than trying to use a bowl or spindle gouge (or even a hook tool) to remove all that wood.

I hope this helps. If you try it, let us know how it worked for you.

Thank you for this, Donna. I hope to be able to play around with this Oneway setup soon. I will start with side grain and work my way into more challenging approaches over time.

 

[Greg Haggard]

End grain cores do work, but they generally progress more slowly than side/bowl grian cores. If you have the stock Oneway coring bit, as far as I am concerned, it is a terrible desagn, which is why so many switch to the Hunter Core Pro from Hunter tools. A much more efficient design and cutter. I did see one You Tube video some years back where some guy had a Volkswagon Beetle up on jacks, and he had a huge auger bit on one wheel, and he was coring out Djembe style drums from log sections. It can be done. I have seen it done with a chainsaw also. I would guess that if you want to go into production, then methods would change....

robo hippy

VW Beetle! So versatile...

I saw a video which might be the one you mentioned with the chainsaw. The wood was vertical on a turnstyle?

I only heard about coring a week ago, and Oneway was the name that was knocking around. I imagine as I start working with it, I will get a sense of how things work. Will def look at Hunter.

 

[Greg Haggard]

I just looked on Hunter's website. They sell parts but not the unit. Are they no longer manufacturing?

 

[Donna Banfield]

I just looked on Hunter's website. They sell parts but not the unit. Are they no longer manufacturing?

Mike Hunter only makes the carbide cutters that are made for use in the Oneway Coring Unit. That setup you would need to buy from Oneway directly, or one of the woodworking / Woodturning specialty brick and mortar or online vendors.

 

[Greg Haggard]

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

 

[Dean Center]

It's hard to imagine how a Oneway coring system will work on end grain, as it's designed, fairly rigidly, to make a hemispheric core. If you're going to remove the waste wood from the center of an endgrain blank, even if it's going to be goblet shaped with a curved bottom, one of the straighter McNaughton cutters seems like it would work a lot better. You would have to cut the inside curve by hand, but with the waste out of the way, that would be pretty simple.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I always wondered why Oneway didn't make a spear shaped cutter or a flat cutter used successfully in the other designed corers. I kinda sorta have an idea but it was never done to my knowledge until Mike Hunter came up with the Korpro cutter. When I had all three types the only one that didn't scare me was the Woodcut. Before I even used the McNaughton I saw several bad events with people using it and when I did core with it I was very leery, probably why I didn't like it at all. Now the Oneway just looking at it made it seem safer by extending the wing base into the cut about halfway in and after a while I was used to it somewhat but the cutters just left doubts. That was why I went to Kentucky to visit Chris Ramsey to see him core. His grind of the Oneway cutter made thing better but you didn't know how difficult that cutter was to use until you got a Korpro and used it, night and day! Yes it costs a bit but if you are going to do a lot of coring it pays for itself very quickly.

 

[Darryl Fective]

I'm trying to picture it. Are your drums similar in shape to a djembe?

I'm guessing coring end grain would be tough going. I've found that coring bowls, both with McNaughton and Woodcut, it goes pretty well until you get down to the alternating patches of end grain. That's also where the tool has the least support, which could be a part of it.

I met a guy 20+ years ago when I first started turning, who made lampshades on a homemade lathe. He said he used a truck axle for the spindle and used a chainsaw to core out blanks. As a new turner, it sounded interesting, but by the time I knew a little more and wanted to see it, his cigarette smoking had caught up to him and he was fighting a losing battle. I regret not making it to his shop while he was still with us and only have my imagination as to how he did it.

 

[Steve Saah]

I always wondered why Oneway didn't make a spear shaped cutter or a flat cutter used successfully in the other designed corers. I kinda sorta have an idea but it was never done to my knowledge until Mike Hunter came up with the Korpro cutter. When I had all three types the only one that didn't scare me was the Woodcut. Before I even used the McNaughton I saw several bad events with people using it and when I did core with it I was very leery, probably why I didn't like it at all. Now the Oneway just looking at it made it seem safer by extending the wing base into the cut about halfway in and after a while I was used to it somewhat but the cutters just left doubts. That was why I went to Kentucky to visit Chris Ramsey to see him core. His grind of the Oneway cutter made thing better but you didn't know how difficult that cutter was to use until you got a Korpro and used it, night and day! Yes it costs a bit but if you are going to do a lot of coring it pays for itself very quickly.

Bill - do you happen to have a picture, drawing, or other information on the grind Chris uses on his OneWay cutter?

Thanks in advance as I’ve been wanting to experiment a bit with mine. Having a successful starting point would be much appreciated.

 

[robo hippy]

One side note about coring end grain, you need to cut the core all the way off, same with burl. If you try to break it off when there is a small tenon, then you can pull the bottom out since the fibers are end grain. I did have that happen with some crotch wood also. This is the same with all 3 systems.

I did talk to Arizona Carbide about getting a special design made for the Oneway blades I have, and they said "300 piece minimum order". More than I wanted, and I don't want to sell or market them. I may have to try the Korepro. I am demonstrating for our club tomorrow night, all 3 coring systems. I also didn't want to take business away from Mike.

robo hippy

 

[Bill Blasic]

Here are a couple photos of the Ramsey cutter. Chris also went to the Korpro and loved it before he was no longer able to turn anymore. Hope these help Steve. I've used the Oneway regular, the Oneway carbide, the AZ carbide carbide and the Ramsey cutter. The Ramsey does work better but there just is no comparison to the Korpro.

 

[Steve Saah]

Here are a couple photos of the Ramsey cutter. Chris also went to the Korpro and loved it before he was no longer able to turn anymore. Hope these help Steve. I've used the Oneway regular, the Oneway carbide, the AZ carbide carbide and the Ramsey cutter. The Ramsey does work better but there just is no comparison to the Korpro.

Thanks very much Bill! I have the Oneway cutters and an AZ. I don't core often enough to justify the Korpro - at least not yet - but anything I can do to the Oneway cutters to improve them would be welcomed. I appreciate you taking the time to share these pics and happy holidays!

 

[Darryl Fective]

I'm excited to see what Brent and his team at Robust come up with for their coring system. I've heard that it may be nearing a release date... I've seen a photo, but I don't feel that it would be right for me to post it. I see the price of the Woodcut was slashed, but if you're on the fence and about to pull the trigger on one, try to wait a little longer.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I'm excited to see what Brent and his team at Robust come up with for their coring system. I've heard that it may be nearing a release date... I've seen a photo, but I don't feel that it would be right for me to post it. I see the price of the Woodcut was slashed, but if you're on the fence and about to pull the trigger on one, try to wait a little longer.

I didn't realize he was working on one. I've held off pulling the trigger on a coring system so far. Maybe I'll wait and see what he comes up with.

 

[Doug Freeman]

I see the price of the Woodcut was slashed

Do you know whether it was a knockoff or not? Quite a few ads out there for the knockoffs. Looks to me like actual woodcut systems are still priced the same.