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Resources for turning thin

T

Todd Williams

Joined
Oct 30, 2012
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Location
Lake Elmo, Minnesota
I am giving a demo to my local AAW Club. The topic is "turning thin". I will be turning at least one long finial and a pierced-wall bottle. I think I know what I am doing, but I want give the audience some published resources they can consult. I have searched the AAW "resources" with little result. Does anyone know of any books or really good magazine articles on "turning thin"?
 
I asked Chatgpt (artificial intelligence program) that question and I gave some reasonable points for your discussion. I don't fully agree with everything especially point # 2., 5. but its a start.

User

You: (my question to chatgpt)
Give me tips and techniques for turning wood bowls really thin


ChatGPT:
Turning wood bowls really thin requires skill, patience, and attention to detail. Here are some tips and techniques to help you achieve thin, elegant bowls:
  1. Select the Right Wood: Choose a suitable wood species that is stable, strong, and suitable for turning thin. Some woods, like cherry, maple, and walnut, are commonly used for thin turning due to their stability and workability.
  2. Dry Wood Properly: Ensure the wood is properly dried to minimize the risk of warping or cracking. Green wood can be prone to cracking as it dries, so it's often best to use wood that has been dried to a suitable moisture content.
  3. Use Sharp Tools: Sharp tools are essential for clean cuts and minimizing tear-out. Keep your turning tools sharp and well-maintained to achieve the best results. Sharpen your tools regularly using sharpening stones or a sharpening system.
  4. Light Touch: When turning thin, use a light touch on the lathe. Apply gentle pressure and take shallow cuts to avoid putting too much stress on the wood, which can lead to splitting or tearing.
  5. Slow Speeds: Turn at slower speeds when working on thin sections. High speeds can cause vibration and instability, increasing the risk of accidents or damaging the piece. Experiment with different lathe speeds to find what works best for the specific wood you're turning.
  6. Support the Bowl: Provide adequate support to the bowl to minimize vibration and flexing. Use a well-designed chuck or faceplate to securely hold the wood in place while turning.
  7. Gradual Hollowing: Hollow out the bowl gradually, removing small amounts of material with each pass. This helps to maintain control and prevents sudden shifts in thickness that can weaken the bowl or cause it to break.
  8. Monitor Thickness: Continuously measure the thickness of the bowl walls as you turn to ensure consistency. Aim for a uniform thickness throughout the bowl for both aesthetic appeal and structural integrity.
  9. Use a Steady Rest: For particularly thin or delicate pieces, consider using a steady rest to support the wood and reduce vibration. A steady rest can help stabilize the piece and prevent it from flexing or breaking during turning.
  10. Sand Carefully: Sand the bowl carefully and methodically to achieve a smooth finish without removing too much material. Start with coarse-grit sandpaper and progressively work your way up to finer grits, finishing with sanding sealer or polish for a polished surface.
  11. Practice: Turning thin bowls requires practice and experience. Start with thicker pieces of wood and gradually work your way towards thinner turnings as you gain confidence and skill.
Remember to always prioritize safety when working with power tools like a lathe. Wear appropriate safety gear, such as goggles and a dust mask, and follow all safety guidelines outlined in your lathe's manual.







ChatGPT can make mistakes. Consider checking important information.
 
Two guys come to mind -
Pascal Oudet - turn super thin endgrain oak relying on the rays to hold it together
Also many other shapes. Uses light.
Johannes Michelson - thin hats uses a light to judge the thickness - a useful technique on woods that pass light.
I use it on goblet cups, little vases etc.

Oudet video - fine woodworking
View: https://youtu.be/pm8yOWAvyRY


Michelson videos parts 2 shows the light
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyk3OoHFK2g

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xDkZzQrMdQ
 
Last edited:
Well, not sure if you can even find it any more, but there was an old video tape of Del Stubbs, who has gone on to carving chisels, and he turns a piece of apple down to paper thinness. He has running water on the piece as he turns it. He did make a comment about how this style of piece would self destruct over a few years. He was using a shear scrape for his final cuts.

robo hippy
 
On resources for turning thin spindles, 5yrs ago I experimented with a technique that allowed me to turn a 3mm diameter spindle over a span of 250mm. It was just an experimental at the time, but I have used it since to turn long thin spindles. Here is my report on another forum (hopefully non-members can see the photos)...

Long Thin Spindles - pulling not pushing - Page 2

Originally Posted by NeilS Tony - I'm trying to visualise your setup. Does your live centre have a male or female thread which is the same as your spindle size? Male thread on the live centre, same as
www.woodworkforums.com

And the master of the Tremleur is Esoulan...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ik-Dy1NC_8
 
Todd Williams said:
I am giving a demo to my local AAW Club. The topic is "turning thin". I will be turning at least one long finial and a pierced-wall bottle. I think I know what I am doing, but I want give the audience some published resources they can consult. I have searched the AAW "resources" with little result. Does anyone know of any books or really good magazine articles on "turning thin"?
Click to expand...
A Del Stubbs video was the inspiration for me. I did several 6" bowls with 1/16" walls after that.
 
If you Google "Trembleur" you will find links "most are French I think" anyway they do the thin turning competitions that are amazing IMO.

Using a bedan for accuracy plus other tools, they have to use string steadies as the figures are too heavy for the 1.8 mm stems (max) to carrie.

Official length is 1200 mm and are usually too flexible to set upright, suspending is possible.

Trembleur made.jpg

Suspended Trembleur.

Suspended trembleur.jpg

Standing upright 3 Trembleurs.

Standing trembleur.jpg

A YouTube showing turning of Trembleur

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4JdA9zdUeI
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I’ve always been fascinated with the idea of trembleur turning. I’ve seen some of the competition videos. Looks like such a good time! I wonder if something like that would work in the states. I also wonder where you can get a nice straight-grained blank that long.

I’m going to be at the Rocky Mountain turning sumposium I’m September. Escoulen is a lead demonstrator, and I believe he is doing a trembleur demo. Should be a fun one to watch!
 
There are a few tricks used in metal turning that might apply to thin woodturnings.

One is to turn the outside first, then put rubber bands around the outside when doing the inside. That's done when turning auto brake drums to dampen vibrations.

I've used low melting point plastic granules. We'd melt and fill the inside of a thin wall turning to stabalize it. The area is lined with Saran wrap first so the plastic wouldn't stick or be difficult to clean out.

Along the same lines as the plastci above we used Cerrodbend alloy which melts at 158 F to stabalize thin turnings. Toxic and problably too expensive for woodturning though.

Sometimes I think most all woodturning problems have already been solved in metal working. Carbide inserts for example, although they haven't gotten to the point of total acceptance..... yet.
 
Dennis Weiner said:
I asked Chatgpt (artificial intelligence program) that question and I gave some reasonable points for your discussion. I don't fully agree with everything especially point # 2., 5. but its a start.

User

You: (my question to chatgpt)
Give me tips and techniques for turning wood bowls really thin


ChatGPT:
Turning wood bowls really thin requires skill, patience, and attention to detail. Here are some tips and techniques to help you achieve thin, elegant bowls:
  1. Select the Right Wood: Choose a suitable wood species that is stable, strong, and suitable for turning thin. Some woods, like cherry, maple, and walnut, are commonly used for thin turning due to their stability and workability.
  2. Dry Wood Properly: Ensure the wood is properly dried to minimize the risk of warping or cracking. Green wood can be prone to cracking as it dries, so it's often best to use wood that has been dried to a suitable moisture content.
  3. Use Sharp Tools: Sharp tools are essential for clean cuts and minimizing tear-out. Keep your turning tools sharp and well-maintained to achieve the best results. Sharpen your tools regularly using sharpening stones or a sharpening system.
  4. Light Touch: When turning thin, use a light touch on the lathe. Apply gentle pressure and take shallow cuts to avoid putting too much stress on the wood, which can lead to splitting or tearing.
  5. Slow Speeds: Turn at slower speeds when working on thin sections. High speeds can cause vibration and instability, increasing the risk of accidents or damaging the piece. Experiment with different lathe speeds to find what works best for the specific wood you're turning.
  6. Support the Bowl: Provide adequate support to the bowl to minimize vibration and flexing. Use a well-designed chuck or faceplate to securely hold the wood in place while turning.
  7. Gradual Hollowing: Hollow out the bowl gradually, removing small amounts of material with each pass. This helps to maintain control and prevents sudden shifts in thickness that can weaken the bowl or cause it to break.
  8. Monitor Thickness: Continuously measure the thickness of the bowl walls as you turn to ensure consistency. Aim for a uniform thickness throughout the bowl for both aesthetic appeal and structural integrity.
  9. Use a Steady Rest: For particularly thin or delicate pieces, consider using a steady rest to support the wood and reduce vibration. A steady rest can help stabilize the piece and prevent it from flexing or breaking during turning.
  10. Sand Carefully: Sand the bowl carefully and methodically to achieve a smooth finish without removing too much material. Start with coarse-grit sandpaper and progressively work your way up to finer grits, finishing with sanding sealer or polish for a polished surface.
  11. Practice: Turning thin bowls requires practice and experience. Start with thicker pieces of wood and gradually work your way towards thinner turnings as you gain confidence and skill.
Remember to always prioritize safety when working with power tools like a lathe. Wear appropriate safety gear, such as goggles and a dust mask, and follow all safety guidelines outlined in your lathe's manual.







ChatGPT can make mistakes. Consider checking important information.
Click to expand...
Oh, well I guess I knew it would have to happen eventually… AI is taking over this portion of our life as well. I can’t believe you actually published this dribble. Good luck to us all!
 
Todd Williams said:
I am giving a demo to my local AAW Club. The topic is "turning thin". I will be turning at least one long finial and a pierced-wall bottle. I think I know what I am doing, but I want give the audience some published resources they can consult. I have searched the AAW "resources" with little result. Does anyone know of any books or really good magazine articles on "turning thin"?
Click to expand...
Well, the first thing I think when you say “turning thin“ is that you will be making a bowl or some other objects like a vase or something with a very thin wall. However, based on all of the other responses, I guess you’re talking about some other thin kind of thing. It would be nice if the initial description was more complete and comprehensive regarding exactly what you were talking about.
At any rate, good luck with your demonstration I thought I hope everything works out OK!
 
Michael Anderson said:
I’ve always been fascinated with the idea of trembleur turning. I’ve seen some of the competition videos. Looks like such a good time! I wonder if something like that would work in the states. I also wonder where you can get a nice straight-grained blank that long.

I’m going to be at the Rocky Mountain turning sumposium I’m September. Escoulen is a lead demonstrator, and I believe he is doing a trembleur demo. Should be a fun one to watch!
Click to expand...
Laurent Niclot was a student of Escoulen's prior to emigrating to the US. He's now a fixture in Trent Bosch's shop (and family), and skilled with the bedan. If you have a little extra time during or around the symposium, see if he'd give you a one on one with it. Laurent is a great guy and an excellent teacher. It would be time well spent. But humbling.
 
Noted Dean, thanks! I’ve heard he’s a super nice guy. I’ll see if I can wrangle him to give me a bedan lesson.
 
Steiph Zargon said:
However, based on all of the other responses, I guess you’re talking about some other thin kind of thing. It would be nice if the initial description was more complete and comprehensive regarding exactly what you were talking about.
Click to expand...
I thought he was pretty clear when he said a long finial and a pierced bottle. I’m not sure how the responses aren’t relevant?
 
Steiph Zargon said:
Well, the first thing I think when you say “turning thin“ is that you will be making a bowl or some other objects like a vase or something with a very thin wall. However, based on all of the other responses, I guess you’re talking about some other thin kind of thing. It would be nice if the initial description was more complete and comprehensive regarding exactly what you were talking about.
Click to expand...

He did say. He will be doing both.
 
Thank you, thank you, ALL for your responses! Yes, I will be covering both thin spindles, like finials, and thin walled vessels, like bowls and hollow forms. My hope is to provide general principles which apply to both kinds of "thin". And then demo at least most of those principles on a couple of small pieces - small due to lack of time to do big ones.

I have a lot of videos to watch to get ready. Thanks again.
 
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