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saw chain

Kevin Jenness

Kevin Jenness

Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
852
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742
Location
Huntington, VT
What do you recommend as a chain type for efficiently processing blanks with my new (to me) 572XP saw? Crosscutting and ripping, mostly local hardwoods, 20" bar.
 
Skip tooth chain will do better in ripping cuts, if you do a lot of ripping cuts you can always get skip tooth and do your own rip grind (5 degree top angle instead of the typical 25 degrees - basically sharpened like you would with a rip cut handsaw) but other than that, any chain will do the job. most important is keeping the chain sharp and avoiding cutting into dirty logs or getting it into dirt.
 
Kevin Jenness said:
What do you recommend as a chain type for efficiently processing blanks with my new (to me) 572XP saw? Crosscutting and ripping, mostly local hardwoods, 20" bar.
Click to expand...
I use Stihl, not Husky, so it may be different with them, but when I was trying to learn about saw chains, I was using a guide from Stihl USA which talked about a particular chain. I'm in Canada, and things weren't adding up, so I contacted Stihl and a rep explained to me that THAT chain was a low-kickback chain (also called safety chain). Standard on new US saws, but not even sold in Canada. So you may run into those chains; your call whether you want to use them or not.
 
I prefer a chipper style chain. Chipper chains have a "square" profile to the cutter tooth as apposed to a "question mark" profile on other chains. I use the same chain for cross cutting and ripping, the most important, as Brian said is to keep it out of the dirt.
 
Brian Gustin said:
any chain will do the job. most important is keeping the chain sharp and avoiding cutting into dirty logs or getting it into dirt.
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I replaced my ageing 272XP with the 572XP a couple of years ago. I would consider replacing your 20" bar with a 24" as it makes the saw better balanced. It will handle longer bars but I think the 24 is the sweet spot. Depending on how your processing the blanks the longer bar may keep you from bending over as much.
 
Any chain is good as long as it's not a "safety chain". The safety part is an odd raker that is very high and limits the size of the chip to an unacceptable fine chip and is very slow cutting. Now your question about ripping. A ripping chain has a very low angle on the tooth, almost zero degrees. I never rip from the end grain with a crosscut chain because it's way too slow. I cut the log to the length of the bar so I can rip from the side, long grain. You have to watch your speed so the curls don't jamb up in the guard by the motor. On my 20" I cut off some of the guard behind the sprocket to get better curl ejection.
 
First learn as much as you can about the safe and effective use of your saw.
Work with an experienced club member or a short course.

What others have said. Avoid safety chains if you are knowledgeable about using the saw.

I do not personally know any woodturner who has been seriously injured injured using a chainsaw
I know a half dozen who have visited ERs after misusing band saws.

Easier to get complacent using the bandsaw since it is one of the safest saws available.

Felling and limbing trees are special skills too. Many injuries occur from falling or moving wood and getting a pinched bar willl be embarrassing if not worse.
 
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Richard Coers said:
Any chain is good as long as it's not a "safety chain". The safety part is an odd raker that is very high and limits the size of the chip to an unacceptable fine chip and is very slow cutting. Now your question about ripping. A ripping chain has a very low angle on the tooth, almost zero degrees. I never rip from the end grain with a crosscut chain because it's way too slow. I cut the log to the length of the bar so I can rip from the side, long grain. You have to watch your speed so the curls don't jamb up in the guard by the motor. On my 20" I cut off some of the guard behind the sprocket to get better curl ejection.
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I was going to say the same about pro chain vs. safety chain.

Kevin, I have a lesser Husky (Farm Rancher). That saw has a chain saver. It should be called a chain ruiner. Every time the chain comes off, the drive teeth get all banged up and have to be filed down so they fit in the bar slot. I don't know why I haven't taken that thing off yet.
 
I went in to a chainsaw store to buy a saw rather than the big box store. They asked me what I was going to do with it and I told them I was a bowl turner and cutting up blanks. They suggested a skip tooth chain since most of what I was going to be doing with it was ripping. The skip tooth still cross cuts fine.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
I went in to a chainsaw store to buy a saw rather than the big box store. They asked me what I was going to do with it and I told them I was a bowl turner and cutting up blanks. They suggested a skip tooth chain since most of what I was going to be doing with it was ripping. The skip tooth still cross cuts fine.

robo hippy
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Like all metal and woodworking, tooth count is influenced by how thick the stock is. Ideal cutting involves the proper number of teeth in the material at the same time. Skip tooth is not good for smaller diameter logs, and is a necessity is huge logs.
 
I’ve been using skip tooth chains in standard grind for many years - they excel in ripping and I see little to no difference in crosscutting (but then I’m not an expert user. I was steered to the skip tooth versions by an arborist U worked with when I showed him what I was doing.
 
I wound up buying two discounted Husqvarna S83 full-complement semi-chisel chains on Ebay to go with the chisel chain that came with the saw, $36 delivered. The gist of the advice I got was that a powerful saw with a 20" bar would drive a sharp chain of any design without issue, skip chain was not necessary with that length of bar, semi-chisel chain holds up better to dirty and frozen wood, and decreasing the top angle to 10* or less would give a better finish without improving rip speed. With 3 chains on hand I will always have a sharp chain and can easily touch up the dull ones on my son's grinder.

The 572 is a lot heavier than my dead 353 but for blank prep it should work out better. Initially I was looking at a 60ccc saw and was ready to buy an Echo 620 but this barely used saw showed up at the same price point so I went for it. I may want a longer bar someday but for now I can cut larger pieces from both sides.

I have been using chainsaws and bandsaws for over 40 years without a cut yet but a moment's inattention may be rewarded with the utmost astonishment. I get younger guys to do the felling.
 
I use full-comp full- or semi-chisel chain. When I was doing more felling (conifers mostly) I preferred full chisel, but now for driveway log processing I'm starting to like semi-chisel because it works fine and does stay sharp longer. I've never felt the need to mess with angles or etc, except to file down the rakers (aka depth gauges) a bit deeper (but I'm not really messing with that anymore either).

I keep 3 or 4 chains and swap them out. When I'm on the last one, the other 2 go to the saw shop for sharpening. I probably use up chain faster than hand sharpening, but the convenience and consistency is worth it to me.
 
Dave Landers said:
I keep 3 or 4 chains and swap them out. When I'm on the last one, the other 2 go to the saw shop for sharpening. I probably use up chain faster than hand sharpening, but the convenience and consistency is worth it to me.
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I ended up buying a electric bench-mounted chain sharpener that uses a narrow wheel. Remove the chain from the bar to sharpen. This lets me "cheat" and sharpen grind away more only on teeth that need it. (The shops usually grind all teeth to the worst one.)

As mentioned, what really helps the chain is keeping the wood clean. I usually haul logs to a spot near my barn near power and water so it's easy to bring out a small electric pressure washer to clean off dirt and mud when people come cut them up to take home. (setting the logs on 4x4s to keep them off the ground helps too.) Difficult to clean bark in the woods but a wire brush can help.

A friend of mine has gone to using only chains with carbide teeth on his saws. I've sharpened these at home with a diamond bit in a dremel; he takes them to a local shop with a diamond wheel.

JKJ
 
I found that I could pay for an electric chainsaw bench grinder pretty quickly compared to taking them to a sharpening shop. Especially if that shop sells chains. I never did measure the amount they remove for each grinding, but my chains lasted a lot longer when I did the grinding. They had an incentive to be a bit more aggressive!
 
I bought a cheap HF chain sharpener and it has been a money saver over several years. I am much more conservative with my chains than a saw shop and it has paid for itself many times over.
 
Richard Coers said:
I found that I could pay for an electric chainsaw bench grinder pretty quickly compared to taking them to a sharpening shop. Especially if that shop sells chains. I never did measure the amount they remove for each grinding, but my chains lasted a lot longer when I did the grinding. They had an incentive to be a bit more aggressive!
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Shops I know set the sharpening machine for the worst tooth and cut all teeth the same, removing far more useful steel than needed.

What’s even worse is when they don’t know about or on purpose ignore the depth gauges (rakers). These HAVE to be filed or ground down or the chain quits cutting when the teeth get shorter. I asked the local chainsaw shop one of the little tools for checking and they never heard of it - had to look it up and order one. To check, simply hold the little tool over the chain and you can feel if the depth gauge needs to be shortened. That even the sharpening guy at the shop didn’t know about depth gauges told me to never get a chain sharpened there!

A friend told me his chains didn’t last long before they quit cutting well. The shop just said the chain was worn out and sold him new chains. When I sharpened his “worn out” chain and lowered the depth gauges he couldn’t believe how well it cut.

Special grinding wheels are available to lower the depth gauges and you can use a file, but I just use a small stone on a Dremel.

John Redding said:
@John K Jordan. I’ve never gotten the hang of chain sharpening and have messed a number of them up before finally deciding to just send them out. Curious what type of electric sharpener you might recommend.
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John R, I sharpened for years with a file and then a little grinding stone on a Dremel. There are also little 12v handheld sharpeners like a Dremel that can be used with a vehicle battery. but I like the bench grinder a lot more.

I can’t remember the model without looking. I started out buying a cheap one from Northern Tool then later gave it away and got a better one from Bailey’s Online, one of these:
I did not buy one of the multi-thousand dollar professional sharpeners! I’ll gladly sharpen for friends but not interested in running a sharpening shop.
These sharpeners use a thin grinding wheel and include a stone for dressing the wheel to the proper shape as it wears.

I don’t have enough free workbench space to keep it mounted permanently so I mounted it to a board then clamp the board to a workbench to use it.

These work like this: Take the chain off the bar and mount it in a chain carrier, adjust the angles and stops as needed for that chain, clamp the chain so one tooth is in the right position, and lower the blade with the handle to grind one tooth. Loosen the clamp and slide the chain to the next tooth, back it against the tooth stop, and repeat. I will manually advance a damaged tooth forward from the stop a little if needed for a damaged tooth - it just ends up a little shorter than the others. (Doesn’t hurt anything - the chain will even cut fine with one or more teeth missing.) Sharpen all the teeth on one side then rotate the carrier and sharpen the other side.

I have no issues with grinding more off some teeth than others if needed. Some say this can make the chain “grabby” and dangerous but I’ve never experienced that. Even if one or more teeth are missing the chains still work fine.

I’ve mentioned this before, but when I started chainsawing I read everything I could including the little book “The Good Woodcutters Guide”. I wanted to learn about ways to get hurt or killed with chainsaws and how to protect against them. (One common danger is kickback when cutting when logs or branches are in a pile - if cutting one near you and the projecting tip touches another one out of sight behind the first one, wham.)

JKJ
 
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Like any hand skill, it does take some effort to learn. Watching someone who knows how to do it helps also. I do have a file for the raker tooth, and use it every couple of times I sharpen. Going through some madrone right now, and it cuts like it turns, butter!

robo hippy
 
Thanks for all the info on sharpening - definitely going to have to invest in it. Just got back 11 chains today and it will only take a few sharpenings to pay for itself.
 
Having spent many years working as a logger then as an arborist, I've come to be very fond of Oregon chain, specifically the full chisel "pro" chain (used to be "LG"). Full comp works best on bars up to 24" - skip tooth works well on really long bars but is chattery and inefficient on short ones.

https://www.baileysonline.com/oregon-72exl-3-8-x-050-powercut-chainsaw-chain-orfp-72exl.html

As others have said, most shops go for fast, not good - and that usually means burned teeth and lots of wasted steel. No substitute for hand filing. Each tooth behaves as its own cutter, so no need to cut all to the match a shortest tooth (only chain salesmen benefit from that approach). File each one only until its fully sharp. And run the chain until it spits teeth. Some of the best cutting chain is that sweet spot right before the teeth break off.

I do use a guide sometimes to keep me honest, but often just touch up without it. I picked up a couple of filing plates in college and have been using them ever since - I think they were made by Carlton but there is no name on them. I wish I could get more since they are getting pretty worn now. The Husky roller guides are fairly decent though, so I'd recommend those but make sure you get the ones that match your chain pitch. They work well on the Oregon LG chain but may not work on any safety type chains. And you can't forget to file the depth gauges - each tooth is set individually.


Sharp is key when cutting timber for a living or working up in a tree. No time for anything less than perfectly sharp. No such thing as "sharp enough".

Oh and I have had the best luck with Pferd files.


Madsen's has some great info on saw chain and such:

www.madsens1.com

Chainsaw Tips & Tricks | Madsen's Shop

Madsen's specializes in serving professional chain saw users. If you make your living with a chain saw -- or just want the kind of tools or garments used by some of the hardest working people on the planet, Madsen's is for you.
www.madsens1.com www.madsens1.com
 
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Excellent info from a pro!

I've been accused of sharpening chain teeth to nubs, as if there was something wrong with it.

I agree the hand filing gives a sharp edge. Funny we sometimes say "sharp, sharp" for turning tools and "good enough" for chainsaws.
At times I have a lot of people come to my place to get wood. I'm amazed at the horribly dull teeth on some saws - they work and push and get dust instead of chips and think that's normal, and THEN run the chain into the dirt. Take 10 minutes to make what should be a 30 second cut. Occasionally I just grabbed a new bar&chain from my stock and mount it on the saw. ("wow, this cuts fast!")

I'm appalled to watch some utility workers trimming from a bucket. Not only are the saws bad, half of the guys don't even wear hearing and eye protection. Some day they'll be saying "say, what?" a lot. I like the Stihl helmets with a mesh face shield and hearing muffs, but wear safety glasses and in-ear protectors as well. Chaps are good in the woods!

With the bench sharpener I adjust each tooth position by hand to remove only the minimum. A couple of strokes with a file after the wheel works wonders.

I've shown this photo before. As well as modifying the ground and moving rocks, this makes a great woodworking tool - hold a log at a back-friendly waist height to saw off chunks. (For long and/or large diameter logs I move and hold with a grapple on the skid steer.)

trackhoe_20190916_190256.jpg
Also great for cleaning up around the trees when someone else is doing the felling and limbing.

I love Bailey's. Hey, I bought a bar gap closer tool from them once but don't see it on their site now.

And how do I find a good local arborist - is there a network? Online search and flip a coin? I want someone to remove some limbs and prune fruit trees. I have pole saws but some need more than I can do myself.

JKJ
 
Yep, Bailey's and Madsen's are my go-to sources for saw related stuff.
And PPE is worth it. I've nicked my chaps and steel toes a few times over the years but thankfully nothing serious. I have personally witnessed chaps absolutely save the lives of friends on two separate occasions.

And yes - you can search here for arborists near you:

For the record, I'm jealous of your equipment...
 
The reason for skip tooth Vs. "Full Comp" (alternating teeth every 2 drive links) as noted on 24 inch and longer bars , as well as for ripping operations, is the skip tooth does cut a little faster in long cuts for the same reason we use low tooth count saw blades on table saws and bandsaws for ripping - There's more "gullet" for sawdust/shavings/chips to clear before clogging up and slowing down the cut. Same reason you want a 3 or 4 TPI bandsaw blade for wet, stringy wood (and ripping / resawing cuts) and a 24 tooth or so rip blade vs 45-60 tooth crosscut blade in table saws.

As I mentioned before I used to own a small engine shop and catered to loggers for a number of years (I'd buy 100 foot rolls and sell them "6-packs" of custom cut 20 inch professional saw chains for as little as $69 but that was back in the 80's and 90's) I'd often have loggers in buying skip tooth chains for 24 inch (It was an extremely rare thing to have bigger bars in our area) (1990's pricing I sold them for $80 a 6-pack) As a rule of thumb a 25 foot roll when cut into typical 70 or 72 drive link count chains would result in 6 chains plus some extra.

That was before Baileys started selling to the public - before that they were a wholesale dealer-only supplier, then started selling to public and pro loggers, undercutting the local saw shops, and sending our days of fast moving saw chain deals the way of the dinosaurs....I went from 5,000+ feet of saw chain a year to under 200 Ft. so I stopped offering six pack deals and started charging retail on bars & chains.
 
Cary Hulse said:
Yep, Bailey's and Madsen's are my go-to sources for saw related stuff.
And PPE is worth it. I've nicked my chaps and steel toes a few times over the years but thankfully nothing serious. I have personally witnessed chaps absolutely save the lives of friends on two separate occasions.

And yes - you can search here for arborists near you:

For the record, I'm jealous of your equipment...
Click to expand...


Thanks, I'll look at treesaregood, prob when heading towards the pruning season.

My chaps are nicked in one place and I have no idea when it happened. A good reminder not to run a chain saw wearing shorts...

The equipment is amazing. We have 27 acres, maybe 1/2 of it forested. I used a backhoe attachment for my tractor but saved up for 10 years to buy the excavator. Oh my, what a joy! Then Kubota offered a 0% interest loan for the skid steer. (I got models with heat and air since I'm elderly and feeble!) Between those two machines and the tractor, I can do almost anything I need, er, want. With six machines that run on off-road diesel I FINALLY broke down an got a fuel tank. (Free delivery for at least 200 gal.)

I know a tree service guy who gives me great pricing since I take care of all the branches and logs, even keeping the area clear underfoot while they work. When felling, I usually pull on the tree with a long rope through a pulley on a loopy so my path is far from the fall. We've removed a lot of big trees this way, mostly big nasty pines dropping widowmaker limbs. I usually dig up all the stumps, sometimes a challenge but none has beat me so far! I first dig deep around the roots (sometimes 8' down) then hold a tool with the excavator thumb to scratch under the big roots to cut the small ones, then bump the stump left long for leverage. Not something you can do in an hour with small equipment.

Can't lift it but I can roll it! Sadly, the poor old y.poplar was right where a curve in the road really needed to be. Fortunately, I have a Woodmizer behind the barn. It's a terrible life but somebody's got to live it!
poplar stump.jpg

I give lots of friends the the chance to learn to operate the machines. The most enthusiastic are teen girls and old men.
skid_steer_Rebecca_20240507_171625.jpg

Can anyone buy from Madsen's? Looks like they cater to those who work for a living!

JKJ
 
I have a bench saw chain grinder also, and I bought it not for the cost or time savings. Instead, as with the Tormek, it is easy to use so I keep my chains sharp and safer to use.
 
Webb Willmott said:
Is a carbide tooth chain worth the extra expense?

Reason for asking is I was cutting bowl blanks and chain meet a nail and nail won and I need a new chain.
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I've bought and used two, didn't like them for several reasons. It's a problem getting them sharpened in some places if they haven't bought the diamond wheels. I sharpened them myself with a cylindrical diamond bit in a dremel.

However, a friend of mine uses only carbide chains, says they last a lot longer, especially when cutting wood with embedded dirt or sand. Or cutting roots in the dirt. I usually dig up the roots with machines and prefer to haul the logs to near the barn and pressure wash the dirt off before sawing.

I found that although more expensive, carbide chains did not cut nearly as well as steel chains.

What I don't know how well the carbide will hold up to nails. They are more expensive, so ruining one might be more expensive than replacing a steel chain. Or sharpening away the damage from the nail. Was there damage on more than one tooth? Too much to sharpen away? (Remember the chain will work fine with the teeth sharpened to nubs and even with some teeth missing completely.)

Also, there are small metal detectors made exactly for locating a nail in wood. I have several types here, some Lumber Wizard wands and the Little Wizards.

Amazon.com : Lumber Wizard 5 Woodworking Laser Guided Metal Detector : Patio, Lawn & Garden

Amazon.com : Lumber Wizard 5 Woodworking Laser Guided Metal Detector : Patio, Lawn & Garden
www.amazon.com

Also, if possible before cutting, examine the wood for dark streaks which may indicate embedded steel.

JKJ
 
Webb Willmott said:
Reason for asking is I was cutting bowl blanks and chain meet a nail and nail won and I need a new chain.
Click to expand...

I have not used a carbide chain so I asked ChatGPT if one would be cost effective for my saw.
ChatGPT response below agrees with @John K Jordan
…..

A Stihl 440 Magnum is a powerful 70cc professional saw, so you’ll definitely notice the difference between a regular chain and a carbide-tipped (Duro) chain. Whether carbide is cost-effective depends on how you’re using the saw:

1. Cost difference
• Standard 24” chain: usually $25–35.
• Carbide 24” chain: usually $120–160 (about 4–5× more).

2. Durability & sharpening
• Carbide chain:
• Holds its edge 3–5× longer than a standard chain in dirty, sandy, frozen, or treated wood.
• Much more resistant to dulling if you hit soil, nails, or grit.
• Needs diamond grinding equipment to sharpen (cannot be filed in the field). Sharpening is slower and more expensive.
• Regular chain:
• Dulls quickly if you touch dirt or grit.
• Very easy to sharpen by hand in the field.
• Much cheaper to replace.

3. Cutting performance
• Carbide chains cut slower than standard steel chains when sharp.
• On a saw like the 440 Magnum, you’ll feel the slower feed rate compared to a fresh full-chisel chain.

4. Use case
• Best for carbide:
• Storm cleanup, demolition cutting, frozen or dirty logs, construction sites, or areas where nails/metal are likely.
• Occasional users who don’t sharpen often but need a chain to last through a big job.
• Best for regular chain:
• Clean firewood cutting, production logging, or frequent sharpening users.
• Faster cutting and much cheaper in the long run for clean wood.
 
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