Shields for Demos

[Ed_McDonnell]

Anyone care to share pictures or descriptions of what you use for safety shields when doing public demos?

Ed

 

[Mark Mandell]

Ed,

The ones I've seen around here are 2 or 3 sheets 1/8" acrylic about 3' square put into an simple wood or alu frame on the edges with the frame sections joined with hinges top and bottom and the thing put on a KD stand. Pretty flimsy, really, in the context of an exploding bowl at high speed, but will control chips and likely to absorb the shock of a hit. Sorry, no pics.

 

[massmans]

on this page you can see two different shields. Mine is the cheaper looking one made out of treated 2x4 material.

http://massmans.org/gallery/HeritageFestival

 

[waltben]

I've been demonstrating for five years without a shield - but making certain nothing will fly away by keeping to spindle work with 'innies' on both ends of the turned piece. Most live center sets have various noses that will fit into a hole, and I use a scrap piece of wood with a turned tennon to fit into pre-drilled holes at the drive end. I make pepper grinders, bud vases, pocket watches, 'desk' watches and various other things this way. Since my travel lathe is a Jet mini, I keep bowl making to my home late (a Stubby).

 

[MichaelMouse]

Hardware cloth, sprayed flat black, framed and hung or trestled. With the light on the demo and the twilight in the audience, you'll never know it's there. Anything that passes a 1/2" grid won't have enough oomph to do any damage.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Anything that passes a 1/2" grid won't have enough oomph to do any damage.

Unless it hits some kid in the eye.

I'd stay with the plexi. I also think that, if you're counting on insurance coverage "in the event," that you check with the carrier as to what IT wants.

 

[Jake Debski]

The WNYwoodturners do a charity thing every summer for ten days. We turn at a local Fair. Both of our Jet minis have3' X 3' X 1/4" Plexiglas shields set in a slot cut into a piece of 2 by lumber fastened to the lathe stand. I have seen these take quite a hit, and aside from scaring the c**p out of on lookers and the operator there has been no damage. The biggest problem is the dust being attracted to the plastic. When I'm turning I keep a bag of used dryer sheets handy to wipe of the shield, these seem to work well enough until we change rotations and have a chance to use windex and a soft cloth. We also keep some Novus(sp) handy for scratches.

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

Thanks for all the ideas.


From the pictures and descriptions of the lexan / plexi shields, it seems as though the turner is fully behind the shield as well as the lathe. Doesn't the shield inhibit / prevent interaction with the audience? Safety is a priority, but it would be a shame to lose the interactivity with the crowd. Is this much of an issue?

I can see polish removing a scratch every now and then, but how do you keep the shields from getting lots of scratches during transport?

Ed

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

....I also think that, if you're counting on insurance coverage "in the event," that you check with the carrier as to what IT wants.

These demos will be at shows that the club participates in. Since it's a chapter sponsored event we would be counting on the AAW insurance "in the event". Calls to insurance companies with innocent questions can sometimes have unintended consequences (increases in rates, restriction / cancellation of coverage). Does anyone know if the issue of safety shields is covered in the policy?

Ed

 

[Mark Mandell]

Ah, HA!

These demos will be at shows that the club participates in. Since it's a chapter sponsored event we would be counting on the AAW insurance "in the event". Calls to insurance companies with innocent questions can sometimes have unintended consequences (increases in rates, restriction / cancellation of coverage). Does anyone know if the issue of safety shields is covered in the policy?

Ed

Now you need to contact the AAW main office and speak to the Chapter leason person, as they should have minimum requirements for the use of shields in sanctioned events covered by the AAW policy.

Information on insurance and several VERY IMPORTANT limitations and exclusions is at

http://www.woodturner.org/community/chapters/practices/liability_insurance_013.pdf

which also gives you some contact information.

Just so you don't miss it - Make sure that every person who will demonstrate is an current member of AAW. If one of your people has let their membership lapse, the insurance will NOT cover him/her

 

[MichaelMouse]

From the pictures and descriptions of the lexan / plexi shields, it seems as though the turner is fully behind the shield as well as the lathe. Doesn't the shield inhibit / prevent interaction with the audience? Safety is a priority, but it would be a shame to lose the interactivity with the crowd. Is this much of an issue?

I can see polish removing a scratch every now and then, but how do you keep the shields from getting lots of scratches during transport?

Of course the voice is trapped, the static blocks the vision with dust, and shards from a dismount might "poke your eye out." Why the hardware cloth makes good sense. Visibility and sound are good, can't get anything big through it, which means you'll have to cut a bit more nose down or hang curlies over a close screen. Otherwise, good.

Give those without them some glasses to wear if you're doubtful. Though I can't figure out how a splinter would be made, much less drive through a small opening at a distance from the point of origin.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Michael,

When it comes to insurance coverage and injuries to the Public, ANYTHING is possible and Cohen's Corollary rules.

 

[Jake Debski]

Thanks for all the ideas........................

I can see polish removing a scratch every now and then, but how do you keep the shields from getting lots of scratches during transport?

Ed

Ed, we remove the shields from the slotted mount and put it in a homemade cardboard sleeve.

MM, we would love to use your method of the hardware cloth, but the fair crowd is to fluid to make the saftey glass idea workable. On the plus side most of the sanding dust and any errant finishing material is trapped behind the shield. The ultimate authority on all of this is the Erie County Ag. Society Board. They dictate plexi glass. We comply or are told to leave.

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

Michael - I'll have to go to home depot and see what hardware cloth looks like. One of our members has proposed using some type of metal screening (a super strong version of window screens (if it exists)). Have to check that out as well. Seems like screening might get clogged pretty easy.

Jake - Does the Erie County Ag. Society Board specify how high the shields have to be? Wouldn't a 5 foot shield placed close to the lathe offer as much protection as a 6 foot shield and still give the ability for the demonstrator to talk over it?

Ed

 

[SMarlow]

Ed:

Our turning club has made a couple of "U" shaped plexi screens for demos. They sit on our rolling cart and surround the lathe on three sides, ending about 30" above the mini lathe. It's enough to block any shavings, and to reduce the risk of a flying blank in the case of catastrophic chuck failure, but still low enough for the demonstrator to speak over.

If you've been to the FL State Fair any time in the last several years, that was our cart/lathe/screen set up being used.

Wish I had a picture to be able to share with you, but I can never seem to find one when I am looking for it.

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

Steven - I haven't been to the Florida State Fair, but I was at a woodworking show in Tampa a couple years ago (before I knew anything about the AAW and turning clubs) and saw a group doing turning demos. That may have been your club. I vaguely remeber the shields, but I know I was able to talk to the demonstrator over the shield.

Ed

 

[Jake Debski]

Michael - I'll have to go to home depot and see what hardware cloth looks like. One of our members has proposed using some type of metal screening (a super strong version of window screens (if it exists)). Have to check that out as well. Seems like screening might get clogged pretty easy.

Jake - Does the Erie County Ag. Society Board specify how high the shields have to be? Wouldn't a 5 foot shield placed close to the lathe offer as much protection as a 6 foot shield and still give the ability for the demonstrator to talk over it?

Ed

Ed, No, the only stipulation is that the lathes must be shielded. I've often thought that a shield that curved from near the front of the stand to afoot or so above the headstock and near center of the spindle would be workable. As long as it didn't interfere with the lathe operators ability to see his work. But obviously cleaning and storage would get much more complicated.

 

[Allen Alexopulos]

Portable Demo Rig

Hi Ed,

Attached are a couple of photos of my demo rig. The frame for the Plexiglas shield was ripped from several 2x4's and uses mortise & tenon joinery with the shield secured in a 3/8" grove. A couple of sawhorses formed the legs of the stand with 2x10 stock forming the platform. The day these photos were taken I was doing a bat turning demo. If you look closely at the aerial view you will clearly see why I choose to use a shield - just count the noses of the youngsters within a few feet of the spinning stock! Safety First...

Best Regards,
-Allen

LathScapes

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

Allen - Thanks for the picture. Looks like you had a great audience. I also notice the little guy that snuck around the side of the shield for a peek.

Ed

 

[Allen Alexopulos]

Benched!

Hi Ed,

That youngster got benched just after the photo was snapped!!!

-Allen

 

[jimbob91577]

Risk

Not tring to sound careless or anything, but how many accidents have occured in any one person's experience that were prevented by having a plexiglass sheild or hardware cloth versus not having a sheild?

I don't do demo's outside of my home shop, and when I do - I always have the audience behind and off to one side thus being out of the direct line of fire. On top of that, (Nock on wood) I haven't had any significant explosion or other accident happen in the 3-4 years that I have been turning. The reason I ask is I'm wondering if I should consider building a "Mythbusters" type blast sheild or not.

The only incident I was involved in was when I was in 7th grade (about 17 years ago) and another kid didn't put the spur center into his baseball bat blank right and the whole blank flew off and hit me in the arm while I was running the band saw. The the bandsaws, however, were right in the line of fire behind the lathes. A sheild between the lathes and the band saws may have prevented the blank from hitting me but tool orientation would have prevented me from being hit also.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Well, Jimbo, how much of your personal assets are you willing to bet that it won't happen when you're turning or if it does, nobody will get hurt?

Be sure to check with SWMBO before you post an amount

If Ed's group can't get insurance coverage, they won't be doing a demo either out of their own choice or the event's general organizer politely showing them the door. Without approved shields in place, they'll have no insurance. Simple as that. Insurance companies don't argue, reason, or hypothicize, they just say "our way or the highway."

 

[Clem Wixted]

Tool Rest

Allen,

Did you make your tool rest in the first picture, above? I like it. Do you have additional info/pics?

Thanks,

Clem

 

[Allen Alexopulos]

Toolrest Details

Hi Clem,

I purchased the toolrest a number of years ago for use on an old Walker-Turner (c1935) lathe. As delivered, the posts were 1" in diameter. I had the post diameters machined down to fit the WT, then later had them machined down one more time to fit the Jet Mini. I'm including a closeup of the posts for you. Note: the post is mounted differently on the closeup than the way that I use it on the Jet. The photo was taken prior to the final machining operation and shows the effects of the parts spending several years in an unheated garage. Someday I might have one last bit of machining done on them to give me another 1/4" or so of vertical play, as at times I find that the top of the toolrest is a bit too high.

I had to purchase an additional Jet banjo to use the toolrest on the Mini. If you decide to clone this rig I suggest that you find a used banjo, as a new one must be purchased piecemeal from Jet and you will pay around $7 just for two "C" rings.

The angle-iron toolrest works very well on the Jet Mini. I might opt for a solid round bar for the toolrest if I were working on a bigger lathe with larger diameter turnings just for a bit of extra stability.

Good luck with your toolrest quest!

-Allen

 

[Clem Wixted]

Hi Clem,

Good luck with your toolrest quest!

-Allen

Thanks, Allen

That sure is an interesting design.

Clem

 

[Sky]

I was at a show in Miami a few years ago with 4 lathe demos running at once, all with screens or plexy/lexan shields. One aggressively cutting guy had a quarter sized chip 3/4 " thick fly off at 45% from the lathe. It traveled about 20' going between displayed turnings on shelves hitting a "customer" in the right temple only one inch from her eye. A red mark and one mad lady was damage. She walked off after being apologized to several times. Better safe that sorry.

 

[waltben]

What Sky wrote is the argument for having shields for folks who don't (or can't) think much. For what I do at art and craft shows, I guess it's more entertainment than demonstration. I'm not trying to show people how to make anything; I'm just making more product between sales. I don't cut anything aggressively, only do so when the wood is held securely (at least one end has a hole with a scrap wood or live center tennon in it), always check each blank for cracks before mounting and at least twice while turning, and keep an eye out for kids large and small that will try getting as close to the wood as they can. When someone asks a question, I stop my lathe and answer it so I don't get distracted while turning. If I've a decent crowd, I'll give a quick overview of turning and explain a few of the tools. The purpose of this kind of 'demonstrating' (and what clubs should be doing at similar venues), is quite different than showing a group of turners how to do something in an hour or so. You've no time pressures and can be deliberate, careful and thorough in what you do. Anyone having exploding wood or large chunks flying at people in this instance isn't using their head and what's in it.

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

I was at a show in Miami a few years ago with 4 lathe demos running at once, all with screens or plexy/lexan shields. One aggressively cutting guy had a quarter sized chip 3/4 " thick fly off at 45% from the lathe. It traveled about 20' going between displayed turnings on shelves hitting a "customer" in the right temple only one inch from her eye. A red mark and one mad lady was damage. She walked off after being apologized to several times. Better safe that sorry.

Ever since having inexplicably lost my mind and agreed to become a club president, these are the kind of nightmares that keep me awake at night worrying about liability issues.


Ed