Shiny finishes with Tung oil?

[Jon Rista]

When it comes to finishing, I generally aim for some degree of a satin/luster finish. I don't often go for full on gloss. Occasionally, though, I do think that a particular piece would look good with a very glossy finish. I use Tung oil (lately mostly Watco Tung Oil, so its not 100% pure, it has some solvents in it to help penetrate and dry...I find 100% pure tung oil has a honey-like consistency, making it harder to apply, and it takes AGES to prolymerize).

I'm curious how you go about finishing a piece with tung oil, such that it ends up nice and glossy in the end. I've been working on an egg here, for a few days, and after several coats, which I leave on for 15-20m then wipe off, it is still quite dull. Its picking up a very slight satin sheen, but it does not seem to be getting glossy. I sanded this to 2000 grit, even wet-sanded it over a couple of coats, and the surface is quite smooth, although the grain is a little bit open so there are some grain lines and pores, which is actually fine with me. I think those add a bit of character. I'm just curious here how to actually get a glossy finish. I'm starting to wonder if I'm just wiping off ALL the oil, on these Nth coats? Is none of it bonding anymore at all? I'm afraid if I coat and leave it on without wiping any off for too long, that the finish is going to get uneven, bumpy and unsightly...but perhaps wiping off in just 15-20 minutes is too soon?

Anyway, just curious how people achieve a nice glossy finish with Tung oil. I know it is possible, as I've seen it done...but I clearly am missing some aspect of technique here.

EDIT:

I should probably add a bit more context here. My current full process, for clarity:

1. First coat, apply and let soak in. Keep applying more tung oil wherever dry spots appear, until dry spots stop appearing. When no dry spots appear after ~15 minutes, then wipe off excess.
2. Let this coat dry for at least a full 24 hours.
3. Second coat, apply over full surface, let soak 15-20m, then wipe off excess.
4. Let this coat dry for a full day.
5. Repeat steps 3-4 until desired sheen achieved.

So I am waiting a day (sometimes more, if i feel the piece needs it) before applying the next coat, to ensure that the prior coat is able to start polymerizing. Only on the first coat to I keep adding more oil before that first 24 hour period, just to make sure the entire piece saturates to the point where I no longer get dry spots.

I've generally only finished until a mild satin sheen occurs. However I have seen some very glossy pieces finished in tung oil, and some of these eggs I've turned here I think would be better with a glossy finish than a satin one. Thus far, however, I have been unable to actually achieve anything beyond a soft satin sheen.

I'm using a variety of woods. Most of these are segmented in one way or another...simple flat segments, vertical segments (creates kind of a checkerboard look if you look at the egg top down), celtic knots with layers of 1/8" thick wood (so we have opposing grains, main blank is long grain like a standard turning blank, the knot layers are more like a bowl blank, alternating long and end grain). I also have some eggs similar to the celtic knots that have bands of 1/8" thick wood board, but not as knots, just loops/bands/rings (sometimes flat, sometimes angled). Most of these I want a satin sheen, although, I actually want more sheeny than they are, and these also seem to be troublesom in getting more of that semi-shiny sheen.

Wood varieties include:

Walnut
Tatajuba
Purpleheart
Padauk
Maple
Sycamore
Cherry
Redheart
Mahogany

I think there are a few others as well. Lot of different woods, in some cases as many as 5 in a single piece. Some of the eggs, including this one particular egg that I'm trying to get very glossy, are a single type of wood. The egg I am trying to get glossy, I actually don't know what kind of wood it is...it is a very hard wood, though, with a somewhat open grain.

 

[John Torchick]

Have tung oil...watching this thread.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

If I wanted maximum gloss, I would not use an oil finish.

 

[Webb Willmott]

Waterlox is Tung oil based with some other ingredients which gives a nice shine. Check out the Black Walnut Bowl on Woodbarters for an example.

Black Walnut Bowl

Just finished up two Black Walnut pieces. Not sure why, but was in a “top hat” kind of mood for the smaller one haha. Both were very nice to turn.

woodbarter.com

 

[Tom Albrecht]

I use both Waterlox & Watco, not mixed. I get plenty of satin sheen and even a glossy sheen if I buff it with the Beall system after a full week or, more, of curing.

 

[Jon Rista]

I use both Waterlox & Watco, not mixed. I get plenty of satin sheen and even a glossy sheen if I buff it with the Beall system after a full week or, more, of curing.

Is the buffing the only way you are able to get a glossy sheen? I have the beall buffing system, and I can certainly buff. I suspect that would require some solid curing time, though...

 

[Jon Rista]

Waterlox is Tung oil based with some other ingredients which gives a nice shine. Check out the Black Walnut Bowl on Woodbarters for an example.

Black Walnut Bowl

Just finished up two Black Walnut pieces. Not sure why, but was in a “top hat” kind of mood for the smaller one haha. Both were very nice to turn.

woodbarter.com

Yeah, I have read that some tung oils include some resins in them as well, which I guess would technically make it a tung oil-based varnish?

That bowl is pretty shiny. FWIW, I guess....I am looking for something even shinier than that. Starting to wonder, though, if...maybe a CA finish would have been the best way to achieve that. I have plenty of GluBoost...however I think I would have needed to put that on while I could still attach the thing to a lathe. Even then, the whole entire thing needs to be coated, so there would have still been some tricky issues with CA glue. I guess another option could have been some fresh Pens Plus...that stuff, at least when its fresh and new, glosses right up like glass... Again, same issue as with CA, every single bit of surface would need to be coated, which is challenging to do.

I'm hoping I can get this tung oil to build up at some point here, as I know it is capable of producing a very high gloss, once you have enough coats. I think I've got 5 on there now, but it still looks the same as when I had just two, so not sure what the buildup is doing, and at this rate I might need 30 coats to get the kind of gloss I'm looking for, if that is even possible. Maybe with buffing I can get the gloss I want without having to build up too many coats.

 

[Jon Rista]

If I wanted maximum gloss, I would not use an oil finish.

What would you use instead? Lacquer?

 

[Alan Weinberg]

Sutherland Welles, which now has a sale, has low, medium, and high lustre polymerized tung oil. Great products.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

You would need to apply an impractical number of coats of pure tung oil (letting each coat fully cure before the next is applied... lots and lots of time) to completely seal the wood enough that additional coats would not penetrate and then build on the surface to polymerize (cure) into a solid film finish.

If a glossy film sheen is desired, resins are what you'll need. Waterlox is a resin-containing family of wiping varnishes, I used it a lot in the past. Quite thin suited for wiping application, with lots of oil to penetrate, but with several coats it will start to build a surface layer of resin to provide a sheen. I think it likely has better oils and more resin than Watco, and I'd choose it over Watco.

The fastest way to get there with oil-based finishes is good ol' brush-on varnish (which can easily be thinned a bit for wiping). Mixwax and similar brands from the hardware store will work fine. Or higher-price varnish from specialty woodworking suppliers.

Or shellac. Or lacquer. Again, a film finish. I love oils, straight oils, but I think they are not the right product for the look you seek.

Bob Flexner's book will get you where you want to go. This is the best book out there on wood finishing.

Amazon.com

 

[John K Jordan]

I have the beall buffing system, and I can certainly buff. I suspect that would require some solid curing time, though...

I use Watco Danish oil, not tung oil, but with the same process: apply, wipe off after a while, dry overnight, repeat. Each day adds a thin film.

I rarely want glossy, prefer a softer finish.

But if do I want glossy, after 10 or more days of the oil process to build up enough layers, wait at least two weeks to let the entire finish dry/cure/harden completely then Beall buff. For a smooth surface, be sure to fill the grain/pores before applying finish, very fine sanding (600-1200) by hand to flatten surface as needed. For hand sanding I think sandpaper is best backed up with a soft, flexible sanding block - I use white "magic rub" erasers.

These are about as glossy as I can stand. Cherry and walnut. "Danish" oil. Certainly not a mirror gloss.



I know people who like mirror glossy and use a varnish or lacquer, one said he applied thick coats with a brush with the wood on a slow turning device. I wasn't interested enough to ask for more details.

 

[Jon Rista]

You would need to apply an impractical number of coats of pure tung oil (letting each coat fully cure before the next is applied... lots and lots of time) to completely seal the wood enough that additional coats would not penetrate and then build on the surface to polymerize (cure) into a solid film finish.

If a glossy film sheen is desired, resins are what you'll need. Waterlox is a resin-containing family of wiping varnishes, I used it a lot in the past. Quite thin suited for wiping application, with lots of oil to penetrate, but with several coats it will start to build a surface layer of resin to provide a sheen. I think it likely has better oils and more resin than Watco, and I'd choose it over Watco.

The fastest way to get there with oil-based finishes is good ol' brush-on varnish (which can easily be thinned a bit for wiping). Mixwax and similar brands from the hardware store will work fine. Or higher-price varnish from specialty woodworking suppliers.

Or shellac. Or lacquer. Again, a film finish. I love oils, straight oils, but I think they are not the right product for the look you seek.

Bob Flexner's book will get you where you want to go. This is the best book out there on wood finishing.

Amazon.com

Thanks Steve.

I actually have a copy of Flexner's book...sadly, I have been unable to find it lately. Not sure what happened. Keep trying to remember if I loaned it to someone... Anyway, I hear you about the resins. I don't actually know if the Watco Tung Oil has any resins...I know it has drying agents. I don't use pure tung oil for the reason you stated. I haven't tried the Waterlox stuff, I'll give it a try.

I've done plenty of work with shellac, and built up enough to be shiny, it doesn't seem to be durable, and I think it can also craze. I have been working with lacquer, but I'm not quite able to get a very smooth, glossy surface with it yet. There is always some small issue. In time I'm sure I'll figure out the right technique, and I have a good source for that Proluxe (which was once called Deft!) and I do like it. Its a good lacquer, much better than any others I've tried thus far. Thing is, it still doesn't quite give me what oil does, which is that deeper penetration, which maximizes chatoyance. Proluxe is still a surface film finish mostly, and it can get very shiny, but the wood...oil still just brings things out that I've thus far been unable to do with anything else.

I do have some minwax wipe-on poly, which is technically a varnish. I also have some spar urethane. I've tried in the past to get very shiny results with both, and with fairly significant effort I have a couple of times or so...but it is a heck of a lot of work. Maybe the Waterlox will be the same, and maybe that is just what it takes to get a glossy finish. Guess I'll have to figure out here if that much of an investment is worth it for a high gloss...

 

[Jon Rista]

I use Watco Danish oil, not tung oil, but with the same process: apply, wipe off after a while, dry overnight, repeat. Each day adds a thin film.

I rarely want glossy, prefer a softer finish.

But if do I want glossy, after 10 or more days of the oil process to build up enough layers, wait at least two weeks to let the entire finish dry/cure/harden completely then Beall buff. For a smooth surface, be sure to fill the grain/pores before applying finish, very fine sanding (600-1200) by hand to flatten surface as needed. For hand sanding I think sandpaper is best backed up with a soft, flexible sanding block - I use white "magic rub" erasers.

These are about as glossy as I can stand. Cherry and walnut. "Danish" oil. Certainly not a mirror gloss.
View attachment 87451
View attachment 87452

I know people who like mirror glossy and use a varnish or lacquer, one said he applied thick coats with a brush with the wood on a slow turning device. I wasn't interested enough to ask for more details.

Hey John! Always appreciate your responses. FWIW, I generally prefer a softer finish as well. There are just occasionally pieces that I think a high gloss would look good on. The only two finishes I've actually succeeded in producing a truly high gloss with so far, are Pens Plus (on pens), and GluBust CA finish (mostly on pens, and a few other small items.) The Pens Plus actually works really well...but only for a short time. That finish has shellac, walnut oil and microcrystalline wax (same stuff in Renaissance Wax, good stuff), and before the shellac starts to degrade, it can produce a phenomenal finish. Its expensive, though, and the bottle really doesn't last long enough to use more than about a quarter of it at maximum potential (unless I was finishing a ton of stuff every day, I guess)...after that, the shellac I believe, break down, and getting a glassy finish is impossible...it ends up semi-shiny, and the more time passes the more "frosty" the appearance looks. I am assuming that's a breakdown in the shellac (I've had the same problem with home-made OB Shine juice, which lacks the wax, and between the DNA, oil and shellac I think the only thing that could cause the problem is the shellac, right?)

With regards to filling the grain. If I continue to wet-sand these particular eggs with the tung oil itself...would that be sufficient? I've done some sanding at...actually I think it was a 1000 grit wet/dry paper, with this first egg here. The surface is very smooth, but there are still a few grain lines here and there. I don't quite mind those, for the most part the surface of this egg is very smooth, but maybe still not smooth enough for a high gloss. I would hope though, that if I continued to wet-sand this piece with the oil, that would ultimately fill in any of the pores, right? And of course, it would be hand sanding. These have all been fully parted and outside of some kind of custom jig for each, won't be returning to the lathe.

With regards to danish oil...IIUC, danish oils also contain some resins? Is that why they are able to build up to a higher(ish) gloss? I need to figure out if this tung oil contains any resins. I know it contains some volatiles, but I tossed the can when I put this in a stop loss bag, so I need to figure out if it has any resins in it.

 

[Jon Rista]

Sutherland Welles, which now has a sale, has low, medium, and high lustre polymerized tung oil. Great products.

I think that pre-polymerized tung oil is one variant of tung oil I haven't used yet. Do you find it produces a better luster overall?

 

[Tom McDonnell]

Another vote for Sutherland Welles. A satiny gloss from a couple coats. They have a range of finishes. I use their high gloss botanic tung oil.

 

[John K Jordan]

If I continue to wet-sand these particular eggs with the tung oil itself...would that be sufficient?

I've never used tung oil, but wet sanding with any polymerizing oil will mix the fine sawdust with the oil and force it into the pores. Let dry/cure, repeat if needed. If the intention is to fill the pores, I find it best to sand early in the process with a fairly coarse sandpaper like 320 with a bit of oil, then when it dries/cures repeat with finer paper before applying the finishing coats. I sometimes (for some wood species) also use 0000 steel wood with oil.

That said, I prefer to use grain filler on the bare wood, force it into the pores, let dry and fine sand if needed before applying any oil or finish. This is often used on furniture for an ultra smooth final surface.

BTW, this is not about filling pores, but I learned from John Lucas many years ago that small voids, cracks, small missing chips, etc can be filled by wet sanding with fine CA glue. Use 220 paper to make enough sawdust. Apply a little thin CA directly to the sandpaper and sand in the area around and across the void. Sawdust will mix with the CA and the pressure will force it into the crack or void where it hardens quickly. Since the sawdust will be picked up close to the spot the fix will almost always be invisible. I've done this many times with success. And since you are not applying CA directly to the wood, it will not soak into the surrounding wood and leave a typical stain. Try this on some scrap first.

JKJ

 

[Curt Vogt]

Bob Flexner's book Understanding Wood Finishing is THE book to have on your night stand.
I have found that when I used Watco Danish Oil it was very thin and would not easily build.
However, it did soak into the wood fibers and "pop" the grain. The Tung Oils and similar
did the same for me but I swore off products without dryers because they took forever to dry.

For most of my projects, I use Minwax Fast Dry Polyurethane GLOSS. I can get a decent "pop"
on the grain and when I want as it works similar to oil finishes soaking in.
I can use it to get a great build for a glossy deep finish. When doing the high gloss, I pay extra
attention to my sanding protocol and don't take any shortcuts. I wait extra time for the finish to
cure before ever attempting to buff it out.

However, I also use the same gloss product and rub it in by hand into my small projects where I want
a satin surface that has no plasticky deep layer of finish some folks try to avoid. Wearing my
latex/nitril gloves I wipe the wood with plenty of finish on a paper towel and then rub the finish
into the wood with the gloves until it is all absorbed. Works very nice. Since I don't raise the
grain with water before applying the finish, I do get some raised that I sand off with 500 grit or higher.
Unlike some finishes that include waxes, I can add more layers and even choose a different finish
if I want to continue down another path.

If wanted (OK much of the time) when I do the satin treatment, I will buff it by hand with a
very soft 9-micron sandpaper to get a little sheen and super smooth refined feel. I suspect
you could get the same sheen using a paper bag or a small scrap of old blue jeans. Depending
on the project, it is only after all the finish is done that, I will consider using a wax (I like
Renaissance Wax.)

The warning for folks who use oil-based products including the oil style polyurethanes is that
if your wood has oils in it, it may affect drying times from a few extra days to months. Any time
I lose my mind and put the poly on Cocobolo I immediately regret it. Last week's Peruvian Walnut
magic wand took about 8 days to stop feeling tacky with the poly.

This is when I pull out the dewaxed Shellac or go straight into a CA finish. (I have just started
experimenting with Solarez UV finish for a different option on oily woods.) Water based finishes
tend to dry too fast for me and don't soak into the wood enough to get the depth that an oil can.

And then there is the CA finish on my pen blanks and some magic wands. That is the toughest
finish for an item that may get lots of handling or rough use. Shines up like a champ too.
I just takes practice to learn how to do reliably and a willingness to sand it off and start over
when you mess it up.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Summary (but somehow still long):

-Tung, linseed, and other modified/processed veg oils are the base oils for all varnish. In my opinion, the attributes of tung oil are superior to the others.

-Modern varnishes use alkyd and urethane/polyurethane resins (usually in some ratio blend) to provide the relatively tough protective film on top the wood. There is also the hard to find (anymore) phenolic resin varnish. Phenolic varnish is very clear, very high gloss, and really can't easily be thinned by us (or that used to be the case with Behlan's version). The best available-to-us hobby folk was Behlen Rockhard Tabletop Varnish, a phenolic resin varnish, incredible stuff. Mohawk bought Behlen 20-some years ago and discontined phenolic varnish (dammit). Behlan Rockhard is still available but it is urethane resin now- pfft. Again, in my opinion, phenolic resin varnish will give the best clarity and shine. Polyurethane is a bit tougher than phenolic, and PU resin is added to alkyd resin to give it toughness, but PU is the least clear resin, followed by alkyd (better clarity), and phenolic (best clarity).

-All varnishes start life as glossy, and if a gloss is not desired, flattening agents are added to the varnish to scatter light reflection.

-"Long oil" varnish, more oil than resin, greater oil penetration with less surface build meaning a more flexible/tolerant surface for environmental-caused expansion/contraction without cracking the harder/thicker surface. Typically called spar varnish in the boating world, aimed at exterior use.

-"Short oil" varnish, more resin than oil, greater/thicker surface build and less oil penetration, typically for interior use in stable environments where expansion, contraction, and moisture penetration are nil in comparison to exterior.

-My last opinion- if it can be found, I'd go with a tung oil based varnish that uses phenolic resin if I were looking for ultimate clarity and high sheen surface build with a deep grain pop. And it doesn't take much looking to find on the retail market your choices are incredibly limited. But Sutherland Welles has their Exterior Marine Spar Varnish, which has polymerized tung oil (unknown if it is chemically polymerized or chemical-free high temp and pressure polymerized) and phenolic resin. But it also has other additives (like a fungicide, and other stuff) that you may or may not want as part of your project.

Exterior Marine Spar Varnish - Sutherland Welles Ltd.®

Exterior Marine Spar Varnish is formulated to withstand harsh seasonal cycles, environmental fluctuations and wet environments. This finish requires timely maintenance to protect the wood and is an excellent choice for brightwork on boats. The combination of UV guards, fungicide, Polymerized...

sutherlandwelles.com

My second choice, look at the Waterlox family, I've used their red label can a lot in the past. In my experience, the first 3 coats penetrate, coats 4 and beyond start to build a surface finish. Their other versions may act differently, do your homework. Waterlox are not phenolic-resin varnishes, but they are tung oil-based, and served me well (until they got to expensive for my infrequent use and loss to curing in the can).

SW and Waterlox carry high price tags nowadays, and both can cure in the can, so protect your investment in them and do what you need to do to preserve the unused stock.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

Jon. You say you have seen glossy "tung oil" finishes, but the term covers many products with different formulations of oil proportions, resin types and amounts, etc. If you want to use tung oil, Sutherland Welles Polymerized Tung Oil is a good product to try. No matter what you use you will need to build up a film and "finish the finish" by rubbing out/buffing after thorough curing. The one exception is French polishing with shellac, which skillfully done leaves a beautiful finish that is durable except with respect to alcohol.

TLDR: gloss finishes take time and effort to do right.

 

[Doug Freeman]

You need to find Flexner's book, or get another copy - he covers all the info so far presented, plus a whole lot more, it would take far too long to type it all out. Finishing is not simple, it is a skill unto itself. There are a lot of different finish types, with pros and cons for each. Oil will not obtain a glossy finish. Wax can be used on top to add luster, but it will not achieve the gloss of a resin containing finish (that usually needs to be rubbed out to remove flaws). Non poly varnish had a lot of pros about it, but is not available any more. When I want hi gloss (what I call a "piano finish") I use Sherwin Williams CAB Acrylic lacquer (non-yellowing) sprayed and rubbed out. I don't do it often, very time consuming. You can research Steve Sinner's method for hi gloss using Minwax Helmsman Spar Varnish applied with foam brushes - there are a few others that say they have used his technique with success also.

 

[Jim Reynolds]

Here is the link to the Steve Sinner video Doug mentioned above.

 

[Jon Rista]

Here is the link to the Steve Sinner video Doug mentioned above.

I have actually followed his process with spar urethane. I made a few pieces that ended up very glossy. For some reason, though, I had a real tough time getting ripple-free results. I think only two pieces came out totally ripple free, and one of them popped off the lathe while I was turning the inside which ruined it. I don't know if it is my environment...I live in Colorado, it gets EXTREMELY dry here during the summer. I stopped using this technique a while ago, because I could never quite seem to avoid ripples, even milder ones that you could readily see in the reflections. This is kind of my top video for finishing larger pieces with a glossy finish, though. I have the same spar urethane, distributed it into jars, and use the foam brushes, etc. There is no second pass with this...if for some reason the ripples don't flatten out and give you a smooth surface, then that's it. By the time your brush reaches the opposite end you started on, the end you started on can't be touched or you will ruin the finish.

I also remember another issue I had, was tiny bubbles. I don't know why they occurred, I was using the same foam brushes he did, and followed the technique of keeping the back corner of the brush off the piece (kind of the magic trick of the technique), but I still often ended up with a few tiny bubbles in the finish. Again, by the time you notice them, its already too late to try popping them...the finish doesn't flatten out if you do.

I am also not sure this could work for the pieces I'm finishing now. They are all parted off the lathe, and they need every part of their surface coated.

 

[Jon Rista]

Jon. You say you have seen glossy "tung oil" finishes, but the term covers many products with different formulations of oil proportions, resin types and amounts, etc. If you want to use tung oil, Sutherland Welles Polymerized Tung Oil is a good product to try. No matter what you use you will need to build up a film and "finish the finish" by rubbing out/buffing after thorough curing. The one exception is French polishing with shellac, which skillfully done leaves a beautiful finish that is durable except with respect to alcohol.

TLDR: gloss finishes take time and effort to do right.

You may be right. I know that "Tung oil" is more of a brand name than a literal thing these days. It may well be that the pieces I am thinking of were finished with more of a tung oil varnish (with resins in them), than just tung oil.

I am thinking, though, that there might be something up with this particular egg that has been problematic. Some of the other eggs are demonstrating some buildup now. Most I'm leaving with a satin finish, however a few I think would be better glossy. This first one that I've been trying to make glossy, though, seems to have hit a shininess ceiling...it just doesn't seem to want to get any shinier. I am also suspicious though, that even after leaving the last coat on to cure for two days, I'm not actually sure there was any "additional coat" to cure...I think all the oil is getting wiped off with all of these additional coats. I think the first two, maybe first three, really did build up, but since then...it kind of seems like no oil is actually staying on the surface when I "wipe off the excess." I've thought about coating it and then trying to just leave it, without wiping off...but I worry that will leave me with a non-optimal surface that isn't actually truly smooth and glossy.

 

[Jon Rista]

Summary (but somehow still long):

-Tung, linseed, and other modified/processed veg oils are the base oils for all varnish. In my opinion, the attributes of tung oil are superior to the others.

-Modern varnishes use alkyd and urethane/polyurethane resins (usually in some ratio blend) to provide the relatively tough protective film on top the wood. There is also the hard to find (anymore) phenolic resin varnish. Phenolic varnish is very clear, very high gloss, and really can't easily be thinned by us (or that used to be the case with Behlan's version). The best available-to-us hobby folk was Behlen Rockhard Tabletop Varnish, a phenolic resin varnish, incredible stuff. Mohawk bought Behlen 20-some years ago and discontined phenolic varnish (dammit). Behlan Rockhard is still available but it is urethane resin now- pfft. Again, in my opinion, phenolic resin varnish will give the best clarity and shine. Polyurethane is a bit tougher than phenolic, and PU resin is added to alkyd resin to give it toughness, but PU is the least clear resin, followed by alkyd (better clarity), and phenolic (best clarity).

-All varnishes start life as glossy, and if a gloss is not desired, flattening agents are added to the varnish to scatter light reflection.

-"Long oil" varnish, more oil than resin, greater oil penetration with less surface build meaning a more flexible/tolerant surface for environmental-caused expansion/contraction without cracking the harder/thicker surface. Typically called spar varnish in the boating world, aimed at exterior use.

-"Short oil" varnish, more resin than oil, greater/thicker surface build and less oil penetration, typically for interior use in stable environments where expansion, contraction, and moisture penetration are nil in comparison to exterior.

-My last opinion- if it can be found, I'd go with a tung oil based varnish that uses phenolic resin if I were looking for ultimate clarity and high sheen surface build with a deep grain pop. And it doesn't take much looking to find on the retail market your choices are incredibly limited. But Sutherland Welles has their Exterior Marine Spar Varnish, which has polymerized tung oil (unknown if it is chemically polymerized or chemical-free high temp and pressure polymerized) and phenolic resin. But it also has other additives (like a fungicide, and other stuff) that you may or may not want as part of your project.

Exterior Marine Spar Varnish - Sutherland Welles Ltd.®

Exterior Marine Spar Varnish is formulated to withstand harsh seasonal cycles, environmental fluctuations and wet environments. This finish requires timely maintenance to protect the wood and is an excellent choice for brightwork on boats. The combination of UV guards, fungicide, Polymerized...

sutherlandwelles.com

My second choice, look at the Waterlox family, I've used their red label can a lot in the past. In my experience, the first 3 coats penetrate, coats 4 and beyond start to build a surface finish. Their other versions may act differently, do your homework. Waterlox are not phenolic-resin varnishes, but they are tung oil-based, and served me well (until they got to expensive for my infrequent use and loss to curing in the can).

SW and Waterlox carry high price tags nowadays, and both can cure in the can, so protect your investment in them and do what you need to do to preserve the unused stock.

Thanks, Steve! This is great. Sounds like resins are what my tung oil is probably missing. Youve also added another vote for Waterlox products, so I have to look into that. Expense and loss of most of a can, is a concern. I think I may have used up my last stop-loss bag. I generally do that nowadays though, put all finishes in stop-loss bags.

I really need to find my Understanding Wood Finishing book. I bought it in 2020 I think, and I just haven't seen it lately. I don't know what I did with it, but clearly I need to delve back into it after all these years.

 

[Jon Rista]

Bob Flexner's book Understanding Wood Finishing is THE book to have on your night stand.
I have found that when I used Watco Danish Oil it was very thin and would not easily build.
However, it did soak into the wood fibers and "pop" the grain. The Tung Oils and similar
did the same for me but I swore off products without dryers because they took forever to dry.

For most of my projects, I use Minwax Fast Dry Polyurethane GLOSS. I can get a decent "pop"
on the grain and when I want as it works similar to oil finishes soaking in.
I can use it to get a great build for a glossy deep finish. When doing the high gloss, I pay extra
attention to my sanding protocol and don't take any shortcuts. I wait extra time for the finish to
cure before ever attempting to buff it out.

However, I also use the same gloss product and rub it in by hand into my small projects where I want
a satin surface that has no plasticky deep layer of finish some folks try to avoid. Wearing my
latex/nitril gloves I wipe the wood with plenty of finish on a paper towel and then rub the finish
into the wood with the gloves until it is all absorbed. Works very nice. Since I don't raise the
grain with water before applying the finish, I do get some raised that I sand off with 500 grit or higher.
Unlike some finishes that include waxes, I can add more layers and even choose a different finish
if I want to continue down another path.

If wanted (OK much of the time) when I do the satin treatment, I will buff it by hand with a
very soft 9-micron sandpaper to get a little sheen and super smooth refined feel. I suspect
you could get the same sheen using a paper bag or a small scrap of old blue jeans. Depending
on the project, it is only after all the finish is done that, I will consider using a wax (I like
Renaissance Wax.)

The warning for folks who use oil-based products including the oil style polyurethanes is that
if your wood has oils in it, it may affect drying times from a few extra days to months. Any time
I lose my mind and put the poly on Cocobolo I immediately regret it. Last week's Peruvian Walnut
magic wand took about 8 days to stop feeling tacky with the poly.

This is when I pull out the dewaxed Shellac or go straight into a CA finish. (I have just started
experimenting with Solarez UV finish for a different option on oily woods.) Water based finishes
tend to dry too fast for me and don't soak into the wood enough to get the depth that an oil can.

And then there is the CA finish on my pen blanks and some magic wands. That is the toughest
finish for an item that may get lots of handling or rough use. Shines up like a champ too.
I just takes practice to learn how to do reliably and a willingness to sand it off and start over
when you mess it up.

Aye! I have his book...its just misplaced. I need to tear my house apart looking for it here once I'm done with work.

I have some of that Minwax poly. I've worked with poly and spar urethane for the better part of a year...that might have been...2024. Started in late january, and worked with it through summer. I had a tough time, keeping the surface smooth and ripple free. Is there any chance the extreme dry, non-humid conditions here in Colorado, could play a role in that? I went to just strait oil, as I was having so much trouble with the poly and spar urethanes...

 

[Curt Vogt]

Is there any chance the extreme dry, non-humid conditions here in Colorado, could play a role in that? I went to just strait oil, as I was having so much trouble with the poly and spar urethanes...

Howdy Jon, I am in Central Texas now, but did this same technique in Colorado when I was there. Same result except when the humidity is up here, I need to wait longer for things to dry... even with the finishes with dryers. Except for CA. That flashes off a little faster.

Getting the very high gloss finish does have a process. When you mention "whipping off" I think that might ruin any chance of a gloss. First it takes away the build to get a smooth surface and second it would smear the finish to a super thin thickness that could not hold any moisture and gets tacky or gets cloudy with an interrupted layout of the finish. Without seeing, it might be difficult to determine.

I will be honest, most things I make are small and reasonably easy to get a wet surface from end to end. Larger things are not as easy to do. But I have found the process to be the same on wood ornaments, vases, hollow forms, and wood counter tops (Ya... that one was much bigger than fit on my lathe!)

1. Complete turning and sanding so no visible scratches even with Geezer Glasses on. Get rid of all dust.
2. Use a thinned out oil type finish (no waxes) with only saturating the surface to "pop the grain" and get an even wet to everything. Wipe off excess. Let dry and cure. Don't Rush it.
3. Sand by hand (No power. No lathe RPM.) Get rid of all dust nibs and raised grain on surface with paper in the 400 - 500 - 600 range. 400 if surface is rough but 500-600 better.
4. Wipe off all dust. Inspect for trouble and fix it. If you went deep on sanding, go back to number 2 and do again. Goal is a consistent surface.
Note:
Small project - folded white paper towel (One that is sturdy and does not shred like cheap white paper towels. Mine are super major Texas store brand but let's name names. Bounty)
Large project - folded plain white T-shirt cotton material. (Same thing... Not the cheapest bag of rags that shredded fibers when I looked at it cross-eyed.)
Those foam pads like Mr. Sinner used in his great video mentioned above can deteriorate with time and shred... I don't use them anymore.
5. Apply a coat of Gloss Polyurethane with folded pad as even as you can get it. Speed is not your friend. A wet surface is your goal. Don't go back and fuss. Let it completely dry.
6. Sand by hand (No power. No lathe RPM.) Get rid of all dust nibs and make entire surface sanded. Use a good light and your Geezer Glasses. 500 - 600
Note: Ripples can stay unless you have a real bad one. Your sanding should not clog the sandpaper. You may (or should) have only white finish dust.
7a. Repeat #5 one time two times three times seven times as needed. Get a good even build. Somewhere around the second or third time you might sand out the ripples and continue.
7b. Your last coat may meet your expectations as one wipe-on and leave it. You may not choose to go on. Your choice.
8. Completely smooth surface and dry. Sand with 500 then 600ish then 1000ish and higher. My sandpapers are the ones I have, and your sandpapers may be different.
9a. Micromesh for gallery quality finish and then buffing with products of your choice
9b. Polishing Products of your choice.

Dinner bell has rung
Sorry... can't go back and proof read...

Edit... Dinner was great but now here might be a solution for this specific project that egg shape off of the lathe...
Rattle Can Spray Gloss Polyurathane or true lacquer in a spray rattle can. Here in Texas, I would not use the lacquer with the humidity blush but Colorado would be nice and dry.
Sanding after it is dry with 500 - 600 or more can take care of any little sputters from the spray can. Then continue with another coat or two while avoiding any drips and runs.
Sand and polish by buffing out after it is completely dry.... NOT "starting to dry" as mentioned above. I missed that on the first read.

Best of luck and patience is your pal!

 

[Dean Center]

The Technical Data Sheet from the Canadian part of the Watco company says it has an alkyd resin in it. Thank you, neighbors.