Sioux angle drill

[Emiliano Achaval]

my old drill is at its end of its life. Looks like they don't make it anymore.. I had it for ever, don't remember how much I paid but it wasn't cheap. Somehow I don't think the Chinese $45 drills are going to last me at all.. what can I buy ? What are you guys using? I turn almost daily... Aloha from Maui.

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

I picked up one of the older Milwaukee angle drills. It's similar to the Sioux so maybe an easy transition for you. Check eBay for those. There are also some nice air driven options, and flex shaft options. Some recent threads here you can read on the subject.
Doug

 

[Bill Boehme]

Is it something other than worn out brushes? Brushes are an generally an easy repair. Bushings are a bit more work. Once upon a time, a motor repair shop would repair commutators, but small motors are throw away items now. I have a Sioux angle drill and didn't know that they are no longer being made.

 

[Odie]

Doug is correct.......the old style Milwaukee angle drill is basically the same as the Sioux unit. I've also worn out one of the Sioux angle drills......still have it stashed away, and you know they are rebuild-able. About ten years ago, I bought three of the old style Milwaukee angle drills at a close out sale....and, still have two of them new in the packaging! I expect I'm probably good for the rest of my life!

The old style is what you want. The new "space age" redesigned Milwaukee angle drill isn't as ergonomic as the old style is. I have one of these, too......and, find it usable, but the plastic housing just isn't as good, especially for bowl interiors with inward slanting walls.

The Chinese versions of the old style may not be built as rugged as the Sioux and Milwaukee, but they are cheap at about $40. If they last for a few years of heavy use, that can't be all that bad. They can be considered disposable. I've never had one of these, but I've been tempted to get one, just to test it. I know others here on this forum have, and look forward to reading their impressions of them.

This is the old Sioux, that is now worn out......someday I may have it rebuilt.

ko

These three are my current angle drills. On the left, the new style Milwaukee is still useful for exterior bowl work. The old style Sioux and Milwaukee on the right, remains the best overall shape for doing all aspects of bowl work.

 

[Steve Worcester]

There is a list of sites on the Sioux site that rebuilds them

 

[robo hippy]

Sioux used to make the one for Milwaukee. They are more heavy duty than the throw away drills. Any good tool repair place can replace the bearings, and brushes too if you are not inclined to do it like me. I have 4, one is a high speed. I have work out the plastic shells a couple of times as well. You don't have to use stock bearings, and make sure any replacements are double 'sealed' not shielded. Biggest problem with them wearing out is that we use them for grinders, and they are drills, and not built for that type of side load. Biggest thing to long life is slower speeds, 600 rpm or less, and light pressure which also lets the abrasives cut faster. Blowing them out probably helps the brushes more than the bearings. I am thinking that many of the screw guns would work fine except for practical purposes, they would need to be hard wired to a converter. Batteries are heavy. They have a fairly good speed range, and plenty of torque, and the bearings designed for driving screws should hold up fine. I haven't been able to find anything else that comes close. Most of the angle grinders run at 10,000 rpm or more which destroys abrasives, and just doesn't give the abrasives time to get proper traction for good cutting. I did see one flex shaft set up with a 1 hp motor, and a very old handle type mount for the arbor and abrasive disc, but they seem to be antique and not available. Still searching.....

robo hippy

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

So many good answers here!! How about the drill that looks like a vertical drill, stand up.. Almost like angle drill but more straight. I would like to have my Sioux rebuilt, the cord is also frayed and full of tape. Anybody knows where to get parts?
Odie: interested in trading one of those new one for some Koa, maybe Milo, or Opiuma wood? Aloha from Maui

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Just read that Sioux lists a site that rebuilds!! Perfect!!!

 

[robo hippy]

It will depend on what all is wrong with your drill. Any bearing supply place can find replacements, and brushes, especially easy if you have the original parts page. Most tool shops will refuse to work on a tool with a frayed cord, so they will replace that as well. If you have to ship the drill off Island, that could be really expensive. Many tool repair places can order parts as well, it is a fairly common type of tool. Not all tool repair places are equal though, check out a place that sells tools and ask where they get theirs fixed...

robo hippy

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Has anybody tried the type of drill in the attached file below? Just Looking at options... That's a cordless, would have to be a corded one...
Robby Hippy, have watched lots of your Youtube videos, great work... I appreciate your help.
Odie: you are not tempted by the trade offer? Koa, lychee, milo, Opiuma, mango...

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Is it something other than worn out brushes? Brushes are an generally an easy repair. Bushings are a bit more work. Once upon a time, a motor repair shop would repair commutators, but small motors are throw away items now. I have a Sioux angle drill and didn't know that they are no longer being made.

I hear strange noises and sometimes slows down and won't go any faster... Cord is very frayed ,old, dry, worned out. Its probably 18 to 20 years old...

 

[Bill Boehme]

I hear strange noises and sometimes slows down and won't go any faster... Cord is very frayed ,old, dry, worned out. Its probably 18 to 20 years old...

How strange is the noise?

With worn out brushes, it would tend to lose power, slow down, be noisier than usual, possibly be more arcing at the commutator, and have a definite ozone smell. It is easy to replace the brushes. For a drill that old, you ought to replace the power cord and bearings at the same time as you replace the brushes. Frayed cords were common back 60+ years ago when they sometimes were double braided cotton outer jacket (sometimes it was braided asbestos) over butyl rubber insulation. Other times it was just plain rubber that tended to get hard and crumble. Since the 1960's power cords have mostly been plastic or neoprene rubber. They are fairly durable, but can have scrapes, nicks, cuts, or damaged strain reliefs.intermittent connections in power cords are fairly easy to troubleshoot. If you're unfamiliarity with working on electric motors, it is probably better to let a repair shop do the job.

 

[Justin Stephen]

Has anybody tried the type of drill in the attached file below? Just Looking at options... That's a cordless, would have to be a corded one...

I held one of those once and found it's length to be awkward as it is well over a foot long. Milwaukee also sells one that is very similar. By comparison, the cheap Harbor Freight equivalent is an inch and a half shorter and I found even that one to be a little clumsy to work with due to its length and the 90-degree angle, although a lot of people use it and like it. The DeWalt is also $120 or so, which is pretty pricey.

I use of the above-mentioned cheap Chinese angle drills (Neiko) and have been on the same drill for a couple of years now. I just blow the dust out of it after every use. I find the 55-degree angle of this drill more comfortable to use and also have a strong preference for the lever/paddle trigger it has versus the traditional drill trigger. One big advantage of the paddle trigger is that you can easily create a physical governor for it with a piece of tape and a small piece of wood. You can buy close to four Neikos for what one Milwaukee costs and I prefer the Neiko trigger anyway so its a no-brainer for me.

 

[robo hippy]

Sounds like bearings and brushes. If you keep using it, you may destroy the plastic housing. I think both Milwaukee and Sioux sell 'reconditioned' tools.

As for the right angle tool (comes off at 90 degrees rather than about 60, they just don't fit into a concave shape as well. I had a friend who used the Makita pistol type drills for his set up, and a drill for each grit. No idea on how much abuse they would take.

robo hippy

 

[Odie]

Odie: you are not tempted by the trade offer? Koa, lychee, milo, Opiuma, mango...

Hi Emiliano........No, sorry......those original old style Milwaukee angle drills, new in the box, are too hard to come by. I'm lucky to stumble onto those that I have......very lucky!

Keep checking on eBay for used ones. They come up occasionally. Also, think about having the one you have rebuilt......it would be well worth the cost, in my opinion.....

ko

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Has anybody tried the type of drill in the attached file below? Just Looking at options... That's a cordless, would have to be a corded one...
Robby Hippy, have watched lots of your Youtube videos, great work... I appreciate your help.
Odie: you are not tempted by the trade offer? Koa, lychee, milo, Opiuma, mango...

I am using a JobMax. Had a battery and got a corded on ebay for $30. Already had a right angle attachment. Cheaper that any other sort for me as I had a Neiko till the housing melted. has worked so far over a year . By the way these Jobmax also come in pneumatic style.

Hi Emiliano........No, sorry......those original old style Milwaukee angle drills, new in the box, are too hard to come by. I'm lucky to stumble onto those that I have......very lucky!

Keep checking on eBay for used ones. They come up occasionally. Also, think about having the one you have rebuilt......it would be well worth the cost, in my opinion.....

ko

Kelly I tried the ebay route and when the final price came in was over 50 plus shipping.

 

[Odie]

Kelly I tried the ebay route and when the final price came in was over 50 plus shipping.

Yep.....that's a decent price on a good used Milwaukee or Sioux........

ko

 

[Bill Boehme]

my old drill is at its end of its life. Looks like they don't make it anymore.. I had it for ever, don't remember how much I paid but it wasn't cheap. Somehow I don't think the Chinese $45 drills are going to last me at all.. what can I buy ? What are you guys using? I turn almost daily... Aloha from Maui.

I was a bit surprised to find that Sioux tools still exist. They are now a part of Snap-On tools. The drill that we call an angle drill is called a z-handle drill. Here is a link to the Sioux Z-Handle drills. However, I couldn't find them for sale anywhere.

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

I was a bit surprised to find that Sioux tools still exist. They are now a part of Snap-On tools. The drill that we call an angle drill is called a z-handle drill. Here is a link to the Sioux Z-Handle drills. However, I couldn't find them for sale anywhere.

I was in touch with Sioux a little while ago, and they said, "We are no longer in the electric tool market. We do offer a tool in air with same kind of configuration 2S series tool."

I'm attaching the Sioux parts list they sent me.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222261197652?item=222261197652&rmvSB=true Found this on ebay, but the price really turned me off.

This is the pneumatic style and look at the price. http://www.arizonatools.com/sioux-tools/detail/Sioux-1-4-Z-Handle-Reversible-Air-D/SIO2S2310/

 

[robo hippy]

I do have the Sioux pneumatic angle drill, and while it works, it kept the compressor running non stop, and the bearings wore out in about the same amount of time or number of bowls as the electric one did.

robo hippy

 

[Odie]

I have tried using these air powered tools for sanding in the past.......but, I've found it's darn near impossible to keep oil from getting on your hands and your turning. Besides that, the corded electrical tools have more available torque/power at lower rpm.

Gerald......That price for a used Sioux would be a turn-off for me, too. There are better deals to be had.

ko

 

[Odie]

BTW: I just ordered one of the Nieko close quarters angle drills for $39 bucks, w/free shipping. My curiosity about how good the Chinese version of the Sioux/Milwaukee angle drills has gotten the best of me!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251715073985?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

If I have any problems, I'll respond later. I've found up to three different distributor labels on this model.....all made in China. Probably all made in the same factory, by the same workers. There must be a large demand for the "old style" angle drills, to be this popular. I see this seller has sold over 300 of these units, without any negative reviews.....so, I'm thinking it may be good. (I see your statement, Gerald, that you melted the plastic case on this model.)

ko

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

I read one review somewhere for a super cheap angle drill that said the gears were plastic!

 

[Odie]

I read one review somewhere for a super cheap angle drill that said the gears were plastic!

I'm interested in seeing just how well this Neiko drill holds up. I can remember a time when the thought of plastic gears would have been a complete turn-off, but knowing how plastics have improved over the last couple decades, I'm not so sure how I should feel about that.

Anyway, Zach......after seeing your post, I searched for reviews of the Neiko drill, and found quite a few on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-10529A...iewpnt_lft?filterByStar=positive&pageNumber=1

Everything from very poor, to glowing reviews. Admittedly, I might have been a little more hesitant to make the purchase, if I had seen these reviews first......but, it's on the way. I'm going to test it out and see how well it does.

I know from experience that the old style Milwaukee and Sioux drills are great, and last, and last......but, they are discontinued. There, you take your chances on a used unit......if and when you find one at a price you're willing to pay. My first Sioux lasted me for about 20 years of very hard use, and I'm completely satisfied that I got my money's worth. The several Sioux and Milwaukee drills I purchased when that one gave up the ghost, are all still going strong after about 10 years of use. (Not to mention the two that are still in the box, brand new!)

One other thing to take into consideration, is I don't sand nearly as much as I did when I wore out that old black Sioux drill......so, the Neiko just might last a little longer that it would for someone who has to sand a great deal.

We'll see.........

ko

 

[Charlie Knighton]

Drill - .0.4 hp (0.3 kw)
8000ES
3/8
10
1300
3.1
1.4
1.0
25
10
254
8050ES
1/2
13
750
3.1
1.4
1.0
25
10
254
8800ES
3/8
10
1500
3.4
1.5
1.0
25
10
254
Drill/Driver - 0.4 hp (0.3 kw) Keyless Chuck






8030ES
3/8
10
1300
3.6
1.6
1.0
25
10
254

General:
Voltage: 120 volts/3.5 amps
Standard Equipment:
Parts List • Safety and Instruction Manual • 3-jaw Chuck and Key (8000ES, 8050ES, 8800ES) • Keyless Chuck (8030ES) • 8 ft Power Cord

I believe the 4th figure down is the rpm......but for sanding seems u need a slower speed.....the slowest I saw was 750 rpm on the 850es....most have 1300 rpm.

 

[Bill Boehme]

That's the top speed Charlie. The minimum speed is zero. If you have a good trigger finger, you could slow it down to where it is barely turning. When they were available, the 8000ES was the one to get for sanding. The 8050ES would have been way overkill and would have been too heavy.

 

[Zach LaPerriere]

I'm interested in seeing just how well this Neiko drill holds up. I can remember a time when the thought of plastic gears would have been a complete turn-off, but knowing how plastics have improved over the last couple decades, I'm not so sure how I should feel about that.

Anyway, Zach......after seeing your post, I searched for reviews of the Neiko drill, and found quite a few on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-10529A...iewpnt_lft?filterByStar=positive&pageNumber=1

Everything from very poor, to glowing reviews. Admittedly, I might have been a little more hesitant to make the purchase, if I had seen these reviews first......but, it's on the way. I'm going to test it out and see how well it does.

I know from experience that the old style Milwaukee and Sioux drills are great, and last, and last......but, they are discontinued. There, you take your chances on a used unit......if and when you find one at a price you're willing to pay. My first Sioux lasted me for about 20 years of very hard use, and I'm completely satisfied that I got my money's worth. The several Sioux and Milwaukee drills I purchased when that one gave up the ghost, are all still going strong after about 10 years of use. (Not to mention the two that are still in the box, brand new!)

One other thing to take into consideration, is I don't sand nearly as much as I did when I wore out that old black Sioux drill......so, the Neiko just might last a little longer that it would for someone who has to sand a great deal.

We'll see.........

ko

I'm hoping for the best, Odie! I wasn't trying to get you scared...more of a comment for others to read reviews, and it sounds like you found good ones. I'm hoping your gears aren't plastic, but maybe that's not such a bad thing. Worth a try. I could see where plastic gears would strip if you were drilling wood or steel....but our use is more of an ongoing marathon than a He-Man contest. Heck, my first bowls were a long-distance marathon in each bowl with all the sanding!

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I held one of those once and found it's length to be awkward as it is well over a foot long. Milwaukee also sells one that is very similar. By comparison, the cheap Harbor Freight equivalent is an inch and a half shorter and I found even that one to be a little clumsy to work with due to its length and the 90-degree angle, although a lot of people use it and like it. The DeWalt is also $120 or so, which is pretty pricey.

I use of the above-mentioned cheap Chinese angle drills (Neiko) and have been on the same drill for a couple of years now. I just blow the dust out of it after every use. I find the 55-degree angle of this drill more comfortable to use and also have a strong preference for the lever/paddle trigger it has versus the traditional drill trigger. One big advantage of the paddle trigger is that you can easily create a physical governor for it with a piece of tape and a small piece of wood. You can buy close to four Neikos for what one Milwaukee costs and I prefer the Neiko trigger anyway so its a no-brainer for me.

Thank you for your response. Aloha

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222261197652?item=222261197652&rmvSB=true Found this on ebay, but the price really turned me off.

This is the pneumatic style and look at the price. http://www.arizonatools.com/sioux-tools/detail/Sioux-1-4-Z-Handle-Reversible-Air-D/SIO2S2310/

Wow, that is expensive!! But a dream tool!!

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Hi Emiliano........No, sorry......those original old style Milwaukee angle drills, new in the box, are too hard to come by. I'm lucky to stumble onto those that I have......very lucky!

Keep checking on eBay for used ones. They come up occasionally. Also, think about having the one you have rebuilt......it would be well worth the cost, in my opinion.....

ko

No problem... Thank you..

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I was a bit surprised to find that Sioux tools still exist. They are now a part of Snap-On tools. The drill that we call an angle drill is called a z-handle drill. Here is a link to the Sioux Z-Handle drills. However, I couldn't find them for sale anywhere.

Best tip yet!! I'm a man on a mission to find one new Sioux angle drill!!!

 

[Bill Boehme]

Best tip yet!! I'm a man on a mission to find one new Sioux angle drill!!!

Unfortunately, Zach discovered that Sioux no longer makes electric tools. See his post earlier in this thread.

 

[Odie]

BTW: I just ordered one of the Nieko close quarters angle drills for $39 bucks, w/free shipping. My curiosity about how good the Chinese version of the Sioux/Milwaukee angle drills has gotten the best of me!

The Neiko drill came today.......The chuck isn't the same as the Sioux/Milwaukee, so the key is different. The cord is shorter than the others, and this does look like it will have some disadvantages for my shop. Both these things won't necessarily be problematic for someone else's shop, but it does for me. It does seem to have plenty of power. Although it does seem like it ought to do fine, I decided to put it in storage with my other "back up" drills. At this point, I do feel like I was a little too impulsive to buy this drill. I don't really need it. It's a good one to stash away for another time, though.

Not the first time I bought something that I might not have.......if I had been thinking a little more realistically.

ko

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

And I got the "new" Milwaukee today... Bigger than the sioux. Not as powerful either.. Good thing is, Slim's Power tools here on the Maui, where I bought it, they will try to fix my Sioux! I only asked because someone in this forum said to ask... It pays to buy local!! Also, we opened the Milwaukee box, the mandril, key, was missing, so they gave me a new one. Good luck getting one that fast with Amazon... My Metabo should arrive soon...

 

[Doug Machin]

Got 2 years out of this one:

Amazon.com

NEIKO 10529A 3/8" Right Angle Drill, 55-Degree Angle Close Quarter Corded Drill, Variable Speed Power Drill (0-1400 RPM), 120 Volt, Spin Key, Angle Grip​

Of course it's no longer available. There's a grey version on Amazon but it has lousy reviews, including one from a turner.

*sigh*

The 90 degree angle of other drills make them troublesome for smaller bows. I agree with Odie on sanding less, but I only have two years experience now!

 

[Sam Fleisher]

Hmmm.. I wondered why the old folks were so chatty.... then I see this was a reawakened thread from 2016. AAAA it becomes clear? (not really)

 

[John K Jordan]

I agree with Odie on sanding less, but I only have two years experience now

As for drill life for those who do use a drill for rotary sanding and make a lot of dust: I read in another forum a long time ago that life of the motor can be greatly increased by blowing the dust out of the inside with compressed air after every use.

I have an angled (not right angled) Milwaukee close quarters drill in the drawer, unused for sanding now. I strongly disliked the clouds of dust and some bad things it can do to the wood. I'd give the drill away except I occasionally use it for [gasp!] drilling in tight places.

I strongly agree with sanding less. And it doesn't take any magical skill or years of experience. There's another way.


Instead of rotary sanding bowls and platters with sanding disks I do 5 things:

1. Final cut as close to the desired shape as as possible, but doesn't have to be perfect. Practice helps. To practice, start making practice "final" cuts before reaching the final desired depth/shape, removing only very little wood on each pass. When it's finally time to make the "final" final cut, the eyes and hands and arms have lots of practice.
2. Remove gouge marks and further refine the surface with sharp curved negative rake scrapers with a nicely burnished burr.
3. Remove the piece from the lathe if possible and further smooth with hand-held curved scraper, most I make myself but some can be purchased. Scrape downhill, of course, and with the grain or at a slight angle to the grain direction, what ever works for that piece. Pay special attention to perfecting the often neglected curve at the center. Curved hand scrapers are a game-changer.
4. Sand with fine paper on a pneumatic random orbital sander turned down to a VERY low speed. Usually no coarser than 400 grit is needed to start. If no ROS, sand by hand with sandpaper backed up with a soft eraser.
5. Finish sand as needed with fine paper (held by hand), usually backed up with a soft eraser.

In demos I usually stop after the NRS and divide the piece into sections. Two sections get the hand scraping. One section gets hand sanded

I taught this technique to others. A student with less than two years turning experience used it with beautiful results on her first piece.
I really don't expect anyone else to quit the way were taught and start working this way unless they try it in person and see and feel the result.
Me? It works so well I simply can't work any other way. Maybe I should do a video.

I know I've posted all this before but I'm a believer and can't make myself stop.

The curved NRS removing gouge tool marks. It's like magic.

A hand scraper removing NRS marks.

Sand paper to remove any scraper marks, wrapped around what I call a "soft sanding block"


JKJ

 

[John K Jordan]

I see this was a reawakened thread from 2016.

I have no problem with reviving old threads. There is much treasure buried here.

Another forum I visit (non-woodturning) runs on the same software as this one. When clicking on the Forum button and before clicking the "new posts" button, the forum shows a title and link to a "Featured post". Some of these are quite recent, some are from the past.

I don't know if these are hand-picked by an admin or picked algorithmically. Often I ignore them but sometimes one catches my eye and I am drawn into reading something I may not have seen otherwise and, yikes!, learning something. Horrors! The "Featured post" feature is not "in your face" but simply there for your consideration. I like it.

JKJ

 

[Steve Tiedman]

As for drill life for those who do use a drill for rotary sanding and make a lot of dust: I read in another forum a long time ago that life of the motor can be greatly increased by blowing the dust out of the inside with compressed air after every use.

I have an angled (not right angled) Milwaukee close quarters drill in the drawer, unused for sanding now. I strongly disliked the clouds of dust and some bad things it can do to the wood. I'd give the drill away except I occasionally use it for [gasp!] drilling in tight places.

I strongly agree with sanding less. And it doesn't take any magical skill or years of experience. There's another way.


Instead of rotary sanding bowls and platters with sanding disks I do 5 things:

1. Final cut as close to the desired shape as as possible, but doesn't have to be perfect. Practice helps. To practice, start making practice "final" cuts before reaching the final desired depth/shape, removing only very little wood on each pass. When it's finally time to make the "final" final cut, the eyes and hands and arms have lots of practice.
2. Remove gouge marks and further refine the surface with sharp curved negative rake scrapers with a nicely burnished burr.
3. Remove the piece from the lathe if possible and further smooth with hand-held curved scraper, most I make myself but some can be purchased. Scrape downhill, of course, and with the grain or at a slight angle to the grain direction, what ever works for that piece. Pay special attention to perfecting the often neglected curve at the center. Curved hand scrapers are a game-changer.
4. Sand with fine paper on a pneumatic random orbital sander turned down to a VERY low speed. Usually no coarser than 400 grit is needed to start. If no ROS, sand by hand with sandpaper backed up with a soft eraser.
5. Finish sand as needed with fine paper (held by hand), usually backed up with a soft eraser.

In demos I usually stop after the NRS and divide the piece into sections. Two sections get the hand scraping. One section gets hand sanded

I taught this technique to others. A student with less than two years turning experience used it with beautiful results on the first piece.
I really don't expect anyone else to quit the way were taught and start working this way unless they try it in person and see and feel the result.
Me? It works so well I simply can't work any other way. Maybe I should do a video.

I know I've posted all this before but I'm a believer and can't make myself stop.

The curved NRS removing gouge tool marks. It's like magic.
View attachment 69714 View attachment 69713
A hand scraper removing NRS marks.
View attachment 69711
Sand paper to remove any scraper marks, wrapped around what I call a "soft sanding block"
View attachment 69710

JKJ

A video, yes, I support that idea. And if you do, thank you in advance for taking the time to make it.

I've never been interested in using a drill to sand, due to the dust cloud they make.