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So you think your Watco is cured?

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Hah! I've discovered a test for the cured-ness of Watco (or any "penetrating oil" product): Just stick it on the lathe. I have a chestnut bowl that sat for several days, in the house, after applying Watco (judiciously). No longer smelled, certainly looked dry. Threw it on the lathe for a little touch-up of the foot and several pores released their treasure in tiny little bright spots/splots. Amazing how long it takes sometimes.:)
 
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How long was it sitting Jamie? I've got some curing now. They say three days on the label (I believe I'm remembering that correctly). Is that what you find?
Rarely cured in 3 days in my experience. I usually do a smell test (but then women are know to have a better sense of smell than men:cool:). This bowl passed the smell test, but the chestnut has some relatively large pores. Another test would be to put it in a pretty warm place (please, not your oven, at least not with it on). Heat will make oil that's hiding come to the surface. If you could find a big enough salad spinner, you could try that -- just like putting it on the lathe.:p Months ago, when it was cold and I had the pellet stove running, I sat down in front of it with an almost-cured bowl that had had nothing on the surface for a couple days, and as I sat there, the bright little oil spots started showing up in places on the surface.
PS: The chestnut has a couple of tiny holes in it from bits of nail probably. I would have expected those to bleed when the lathe spun, but because I'd blown them out with the compressor, they were dry.
 

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I'd say from the time I apply D.O. to the interior and exterior of a bowl to the time I part it away from the wasteblock, the time frame is about 3-4 days. The bowl spins about 600rpm while parting it away, and I've not noticed the DO seeping from the pores at that time. After another few days, the foot is crafted, and it spins at about 1000+/- to do it. Still don't notice it seeping at that point either......but, it's often been a week later, at that point.

When first applying the DO, I keep applying it until it doesn't soak in anymore......wait a few minutes, then dry the surface with a cotton cloth while spinning about 300rpm. I don't allow the puddles to stay there. It's pretty much dry to the touch, although I'm only handling it sparingly, or by the faceplate only.

This upload file is a test only.......
tax.png
 
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I also have found that the cure time gets much longer once the finish gets to be about two years old or more. I now date my cans, and throw them out at two years, and go and buy fresh new stuff. I also agree with vacuum chucking to wait about two weeks or more.
 
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I also have found that the cure time gets much longer once the finish gets to be about two years old or more. I now date my cans, and throw them out at two years, and go and buy fresh new stuff. I also agree with vacuum chucking to wait about two weeks or more.
Ahhhh, that might be it. I was using the last of a somewhat aged can, bought new stuff a couple of days later.
 
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I'd say from the time I apply D.O. to the interior and exterior of a bowl to the time I part it away from the wasteblock, the time frame is about 3-4 days. The bowl spins about 600rpm while parting it away, and I've not noticed the DO seeping from the pores at that time. After another few days, the foot is crafted, and it spins at about 1000+/- to do it. Still don't notice it seeping at that point either......but, it's often been a week later, at that point.

When first applying the DO, I keep applying it until it doesn't soak in anymore......wait a few minutes, then dry the surface with a cotton cloth while spinning about 300rpm. I don't allow the puddles to stay there. It's pretty much dry to the touch, although I'm only handling it sparingly, or by the faceplate only.
That part of the instructions for the Danish oil is somewhat entertaining. I would expect softer woods such as Big Leaf Maple to absorb quite a bit of oil, but what surprised me was the Madrone bowl I finished this weekend, sanded to 800. Perhaps it depends on the definition of "doesn't soak in" but areas of that bowl just kept on drinking. I figured that, just for giggles, I'd keep feeding it beyond what I'd usually do. That resulted in a longer follow-up period of wiping off the little bright releases of oil once the major wipe-off had been done.
 

odie

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That part of the instructions for the Danish oil is somewhat entertaining. I would expect softer woods such as Big Leaf Maple to absorb quite a bit of oil, but what surprised me was the Madrone bowl I finished this weekend, sanded to 800. Perhaps it depends on the definition of "doesn't soak in" but areas of that bowl just kept on drinking. I figured that, just for giggles, I'd keep feeding it beyond what I'd usually do. That resulted in a longer follow-up period of wiping off the little bright releases of oil once the major wipe-off had been done.

Yeah, I guess I should clarify, Jamie........There are exceptions to every rule, and with some examples, such as you suggest, plus spalted and punky wood, I don't continue applying the DO.....unless, of course, I'm expecting it to make a difference in the overall visual appeal. For most woods, 1-to-3 quick applications within 10 minutes, or so.....is sufficient.

You are also correct to suggest yours and my definitions of terminology may not be exactly the same......not to mention that I may not be using the best descriptive words, so as not to have any confusion by any anyone who reads this. (Is that even possible?)

There are occasions where I do see dried "bright spots" from seepage......but, they are very infrequent, and very minor. Those few times I've seen these, the Beale buff seems to eliminate them fairly easy. When I have seen this, the likely cause is I added more DO after that point when I should have stopped.....:eek: I guess knowing when to stop is just as important as knowing when to add DO...!
 
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Hah! I've discovered a test for the cured-ness of Watco (or any "penetrating oil" product): Just stick it on the lathe. I have a chestnut bowl that sat for several days, in the house, after applying Watco (judiciously). No longer smelled, certainly looked dry. Threw it on the lathe for a little touch-up of the foot and several pores released their treasure in tiny little bright spots/splots. Amazing how long it takes sometimes.:)
Press your thumb on the surface long enough to warm it - maybe 30 seconds. Any non-polymerized oil will show as "sweat" where your thumb was.
 

Bill Boehme

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Watco Danish Oil Finish is just linseed oil, polyurethane varnish, and Stoddard solvent (a specific formulation of mineral spirits). The shelf life probably isn't much different than other polymerizing finishes. After being foolishly frugal about stretching the useful life these products, I now buy smaller quantities and pretend that somebody else is paying for it. I'm still struggling with the second part of that. :D

BTW, I count on at least a week and preferably two weeks cure for WDO before something is ready for unfettered handling.
 
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I date all my finishes. Anything over a year can be risky as far as drying time. DO in my opinion does not give the desired result on very porous, soft and spaulted woods. I get best results on close grained hardwoods. I usually apply till drying time starts to extend. Odie's wipe method works well also you wil just get a slower build.
 
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I know temperature does play a role in the finish curing, but no idea how much. The finish cures in a week or so, and is totally done off gassing in about a month.

robo hippy
 

Dennis J Gooding

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I can't speak for Watco, because I never use it, but some oils, including olive oil, will take months to cure unless they are exposed to daylight for a few days.
 
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It is really simple and you should have gotten a brochure with the can. You apply a small amount to the work piece (after Beal buff) . I think it is a piece of tshirt to apply. Then usually right away I buff with a piece of terry material. I leave the applicator in the can so sometime not even needed to load it up. You can then apply another coat if you so desire.

I never go back to Beal after wax is applied. You will find the Renaissance to resist fingerprints much better. The can costs $27 but for all but the high output professional will last for several years.
 

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Not to beat a dead horse but Gerald I'm assuming you skip the Carnauba buff?

I'm wondering about this, too.......and if there is carnauba under the renaissance wax, then how does it alter the appearance....if it does?

ko
 
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Not to beat a dead horse but Gerald I'm assuming you skip the Carnauba buff?

That is correct no carnuba . I did not find that carnuba added anything i wanted . Despite the fact that it is harder , it does fingerprint easily . If you look at longeviety the Ren is easier to renew and does not require any mechanical buff. Most of my pieces are not handled that much so wear is minimal, but I do not see the wax film deteriorating. This usage is not based on anything I have read other that the literature that comes with the Renaissance and what other club members have said.

Not sure how many years I have done this maybe 5 or 6. Oh when I first started the Ren I did use Carnuba first and then Ren. So I then tried just the Ren and found I liked the look better with less effort. Oh, by the way unless it is an oily exotic there is a film finish of some kind under the wax.
 

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... when I first started the Ren I did use Carnuba first and then Ren. So I then tried just the Ren and found I liked the look better with less effort ...

I would agree that in most finishing situations that less is more ... in other words don't overdo it. If two different finishes are both good, using both isn't equal to the sum of the two in terms of goodness... in fact, it might be equal to the sum of the worst characteristics of the two.
 
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Nope, no brochure (I actually read instructions, strangely enough). That aside, if there's one thing I've learned on this forum, it's that the instructions included with many finishes have only the slightest relationship to real-life application.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Wax
This is a link to the wiki for Renaissance and has a lot of the info on it. If you want I could scan what I have and send to you or better yet post here.

http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/RenWax.html
And this may be very close to the broshure.
 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Wax
This is a link to the wiki for Renaissance and has a lot of the info on it. If you want I could scan what I have and send to you or better yet post here.

http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/RenWax.html
And this may be very close to the broshure.
Hey, thanks, Gerald. The Wood Finish Supply link reads like a brochure, so that'll probably suffice (appreciate your offer though!). I got a chuckle out of this part: "[it] is a semi-synthetic microcrystalline fossil-origin wax...." [emph. added] I assume it isn't officially "food safe." (Though in reality, it probably is for some things, eh?)

What about this part, from Wikipedia: "Waxes are not permanent, though, and will attract dust and lint over time, necessitating removal of the dirty wax." Have you run into that problem with Ren, and if so how did you fix it? (Hah! and you though you were done with this thread.;) I ask, because I may use it on the infamous Madrona bowl that's pretty much cured now.
 
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Like anything in an open environment yes they do get dusty, but I have not as yet seen a degredation in the wax coating to say it needs a redo. I think that is a CYOA comment for disclaimer. I would say it is possible if you put on too thick and do not buff, but you only put on a very small amount. The proper amount will be in the cloth and not show on it as white paste. Once the applicator is soaked you will only need a little swipe in wax to reload.
 
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I do several bowls at a time, like to get 6 or more ready to Beal buff at a time. I move the head stockl to the end of the lathe to mount the buffing system. I haven't found that Ren. wax is superior to carnuba. I have and used both and I don't find that the Ren. was is more finger proof than carnuba. My bowls are on display and most people like to feel them even if they have no thought of buying. I really don't see any fingerprints on them.. I have found a few that got spots on them from being store for a long time wrapped in bubble wrap. When buffing I run the lathe at about 1000 rpm when using the abrasive like EEE and white diamond then slow the lathe to about 600 rpm to do the carnuba wax. I have had my bowls rained on a few times and just wiped the off and no problem.
 

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Hey, thanks, Gerald. The Wood Finish Supply link reads like a brochure, so that'll probably suffice (appreciate your offer though!). I got a chuckle out of this part: "[it] is a semi-synthetic microcrystalline fossil-origin wax...." [emph. added] I assume it isn't officially "food safe." (Though in reality, it probably is for some things, eh?)

What about this part, from Wikipedia: "Waxes are not permanent, though, and will attract dust and lint over time, necessitating removal of the dirty wax." Have you run into that problem with Ren, and if so how did you fix it? (Hah! and you though you were done with this thread.;) I ask, because I may use it on the infamous Madrona bowl that's pretty much cured now.

I like the part about "semi synthetic and fossil origin" which has all bases covered. Marketing spin-wizards can say less in more words than even a politician. It wouldn't sound nearly as exciting if it just named the ingredients. I have some microcrystalline wax, but I think it's a different brand.

Once upon a time Wikipedia was more reliable for good information, but now it seems that there are too many trolls interjecting their personal opinions. The few references cited tells me that someone is adding original material.

My opinion about the frequently seen comments that a wax finish attracts dust I believe is just internet folklore. Sure, dust settles on stuff especially in my house, but there's no mysterious force drawing dust to anything... except at my house. :D I have read dire warnings about dark gummy messes being the result of using a wax finish as if any of the products that woodturners use were actually some sort of soft gummy products. No doubt these dire warnings come from those who aren't familiar with what is being used. If any dust settles on any waxed turning that I have sitting around in my house (did I mention the likelihood of that?), a simple dusting with a feather duster (an industrial leaf blower here) fixes the problem.
 
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I always use danish oil on the Indian Baskets that I make. My teacher, Jim Atkins told us in the class to let it cure at least 10 days which I have done with no issues. Finish over the danish oil is Krylon workable fixitive, satin lacquer and Krylon UV matte finish. The extra finish is because of the color on the piece. On regular turnings I still wait at least 10 days and then apply the lacquer and buff after the lacquer is cured. Lots of times I apply the Ren wax with my finger and wipe off with a terry towel.
 

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I always use danish oil on the Indian Baskets that I make. My teacher, Jim Atkins told us in the class to let it cure at least 10 days which I have done with no issues. Finish over the danish oil is Krylon workable fixitive, satin lacquer and Krylon UV matte finish. The extra finish is because of the color on the piece. On regular turnings I still wait at least 10 days and then apply the lacquer and buff after the lacquer is cured. Lots of times I apply the Ren wax with my finger and wipe off with a terry towel.

I attended a demo that Jim Adkins did at SWAT a couple years ago and that is the finishing procedure that he described. I followed that procedure on my first basket illusion after that and I was pleased with the look until I applied the Krylon Workable Fixatif and Krylon UV Matte Finish. Both of those added a a layer of haze that I really didn't like. Since then I only use one coat only of a linseed oil/varnish blend ... either Watco Danish Oil or Minwax Antique Oil Finish. There seems to be too much light scattering additive in the Krylon UV Matte Finish and something about the Matte Fixatif that caused somewhat of a sheen that I really didn't like. Once applied, there's no going back and I'm not willing to risk another experience like that again considering the hundreds of hours that I invest in a basket illusion piece. It could have been some other factor such as high humidity or maybe the oil wasn't cured although it had been ten days or maybe I bought some bad spray finish ... who knows. But my opinion is that neither of those finishes are really necessary anyway.
 
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I always use danish oil on the Indian Baskets that I make. My teacher, Jim Atkins told us in the class to let it cure at least 10 days which I have done with no issues. Finish over the danish oil is Krylon workable fixitive, satin lacquer and Krylon UV matte finish. The extra finish is because of the color on the piece. On regular turnings I still wait at least 10 days and then apply the lacquer and buff after the lacquer is cured. Lots of times I apply the Ren wax with my finger and wipe off with a terry towel.

I'd love to see some of your Indian Baskets. You might add to the Gallery here. - Doug
 
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I do several bowls at a time, like to get 6 or more ready to Beal buff at a time. I move the head stockl to the end of the lathe to mount the buffing system. I haven't found that Ren. wax is superior to carnuba. I have and used both and I don't find that the Ren. was is more finger proof than carnuba. My bowls are on display and most people like to feel them even if they have no thought of buying. I really don't see any fingerprints on them.. I have found a few that got spots on them from being store for a long time wrapped in bubble wrap. When buffing I run the lathe at about 1000 rpm when using the abrasive like EEE and white diamond then slow the lathe to about 600 rpm to do the carnuba wax. I have had my bowls rained on a few times and just wiped the off and no problem.
Thanks for the comparison, Fred. I did two bowls yesterday -- a wide (10") shallow Madrona bowl with Carnuba, and a smaller chestnut bowl with Renaissance Wax. The woods are very different, the chestnut is pretty open-grained, the Madrona very tight, so they sanded out quite differently. The carnuba-waxed Madrone has a much silkier feel, the hand doesn't slide as nicely over the chestnut/Ren-waxed. I'll turn a small bowl out of the Madrone and try some Ren on it and see what it's like. I think I'll get a dedicated Beall buff for Ren-wax purposes -- too many problems with my hands to hand-buff.
 
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Thanks for the comparison, Fred. I did two bowls yesterday -- a wide (10") shallow Madrona bowl with Carnuba, and a smaller chestnut bowl with Renaissance Wax. The woods are very different, the chestnut is pretty open-grained, the Madrona very tight, so they sanded out quite differently. The carnuba-waxed Madrone has a much silkier feel, the hand doesn't slide as nicely over the chestnut/Ren-waxed. I'll turn a small bowl out of the Madrone and try some Ren on it and see what it's like. I think I'll get a dedicated Beall buff for Ren-wax purposes -- too many problems with my hands to hand-buff.

Jamie for a scientific approach try both on the same bowl with 1/2 carnuba and 1/2 Renaissance. This will take out the variables of wood differences (even in the same log there will be differences) and sanding.
 
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