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"Waterproofing" Vase Interiors

W

Warren Grill

Joined
May 1, 2022
Messages
6
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10
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
I am turning vases from a variety of woods, and I am wondering about the best approaches to finish the interior so that the vase can hold water.

In most of the the interior is not accessible for a brush. I tried filling with polyurethane and then emptying it after a few minutes. That seemed to work but was a bit messy.

I appreciate any shared wisdom. Thank you.
 
Since paraffin is 100 % vapor impermeable it might work for your needs . In furniture repair work we use a solution of naptha and paraffin to lubricate and seal some inaccessible areas of wood. There is no heat required; it's a liquid at room temperature.
 
Epoxy is the bulletproof finish for wet applications - my sister had a custom made bathtub and vanity sink installed when they remodeled their home back in the mid nineties - it was made from African mahogany laminated from small pieces with West System marine epoxy. It’s been used daily for over 40 years now with no other maintenance other than twice scuff sanding and applying satin wipe on poly to renew the finish.
 
Wow - let us know how your vases "hold water"
Wood is hygroscopic and should be protected with a coating against water-vapor. Can't remember the source, but I've read that the water molecule is larger than the water-vapor molecule. Then again, "can't remember the source" ranks up there with "they say" - I'll verify with a chemical scientist friend that has only lied to me once. I've also read that the heavier coatings (epoxy being the best) allow some passage of the water-vapor molecule.
Meanwhile, maybe you're home free with epoxy or heavy urethane protecting against water.
QUESTION: Is there any water-vapor in water? Maybe somebody can plug that into an AI site.
 
Russell Nugent said:
Only 2 ways I know of. One is with an epoxy finish, I've never done this. The other would be a glass or plastic insert.
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I've found the glass inserts to be my favorite method. You can get these in 3/4" and 1" and if you do a little searching you might find them in other sizes too. I like them because in addition to holding a little water they hold the flowers or whatever you put in the vase upright. And actually the weed pot style vases work best if you intend to put flowers in them because there's more ballast. Light weight hollow forms tip over pretty easy. https://woodturnerscatalog.com/products/turners-select-flared-vase-tube?variant=40616558264343
 
John Tisdale said:
Can't remember the source, but I've read that the water molecule is larger than the water-vapor molecule.
Click to expand...

That source ranks up there with the television ads that say "you won’t find [our amazing product] in stores, but if you order in the next ten minutes…". A water molecule is the same water molecule whether it’s a solid, liquid, or gas.
 
This is an idea that I only tried once but it did hold enough water for most live flowers. The plastic insert is a "Tupperware" cup. The base of the cup fits into the screw on holder and when the holder is screwed in all the way the top or lip of the cup fits snugly into the inside of the vase.

21071VaseD.JPG
 
Wife kept asking for a hollow form that she could put cut flowers in - meaning a wood vessel that can hold water for days at a time... so I made this..,.

1728289618848.png

2 thick coats of epoxy inside & out that I applied using a slow rotating rig I made for epoxy work

works just fine but added an hour or so of labor & 2 days to the finish process
 
Water vapor, from this website-
www.ampack.biz

Water vapour diffusion

Water vapour diffusion
www.ampack.biz www.ampack.biz

"Water vapour molecule has the size of only one ten-millionth of a millimetre (0.0000001 mm); therefore it is totally invisible to us. This also explains why substances that are absolutely impervious to water are relatively easily penetrated by water vapour."
--------

When it evaporates, or heated to its boiling point, the smallest liquid water "particle" expands 1600x the size of the liquid into a vapor (gas) form, those water molecules are now really spread out. And although a "barrier" may stop a liquid, it may not stop a vapor.

So, the question for epoxy products is this- What is the *water vapor* permeability (perm) rating of the cured epoxy film? You'd need to visit the epoxy manufacturer for that info.

Water vapor, not liquid water. A coating of just about any epoxy will stop liquid water, but if the environment (inside of the vase) has a humidity level of 100%, could water vapor get through the epoxy (if the proper epoxy composition, mixing, and application is not achieved) and into the wood? Maybe. Well, practically speaking, since the top of the vase is open to the vase's outside environment, water vapor, which wants to move from a wet area to a dry area with the least resistance of getting there, likely would not penetrate the epoxy, it'll just travel out of the vase to the dryer enviroment outside the vase. Now, make a sealed lid for that epoxy coated vase, put water inside, and watch what happens. There is a chance that if the epoxy is not water vapor impermeable, given time you will lose the water from the enclosed vessel by way of the evaporated water (vapor) escaping through the epoxy and wood. (Science is fun!)

Because something is waterproof, it does not mean that barrier is water vapor-proof. Go to the hardware store and buy heavy 6-mil polyethylene plastic sheet (typical construction plastic), it has a water vapor permiability rating of 0.06, meaning evaporated water can escape right through the plastic... very, very slowly.

West Systems knows epoxy for water environments. I'd trust it to line a wood vase more than Ace Hardware-branded 5-minute epoxy in squeeze tubes.

(As a building inspector, I get to deal with this perm stuff regularly. Just earlier today, actually, in the HVAC realm with flexible insulated air ducts and their perm ratings.)
 
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Let's be clear here: a water molecule is water molecule, the size doesn't change (OK, there are very minor changes from bond vibrations). The difference between liquid water and water vapor is that in liquid water each molecule is in a continuously hydrogen-bonded network. In water vapor, the molecules have been released from this network and are now in gaseous state. The molecules are still the same size, but in water vapor they are "free" from the bulk and are now more likely to permeate surfaces.
 
Thanks - this was a great post. I'm concluding that my rationale was bogus but the practicality of coating the inside of hollow-forms is intact. If all we can do is slow those little buggers down, let's slow them down as much as we can.
 
Bill Boehme said:
That source ranks up there with the television ads that say "you won’t find [our amazing product] in stores, but if you order in the next ten minutes…". A water molecule is the same water molecule whether it’s a solid, liquid, or gas.
Click to expand...
Where were you a few years ago? I got all this Cialis and now can't afford any chicks.
 
Paul Paukstelis said:
Let's be clear here: a water molecule is water molecule, the size doesn't change (OK, there are very minor changes from bond vibrations). The difference between liquid water and water vapor is that in liquid water each molecule is in a continuously hydrogen-bonded network. In water vapor, the molecules have been released from this network and are now in gaseous state. The molecules are still the same size, but in water vapor they are "free" from the bulk and are now more likely to permeate surfaces.
Click to expand...

Drinking From a Firehose​

If we would like to delve into the realm of TMI, we could ask ourselves "What is water?" Purified liquid water isn’t just H₂O, it also contains in very small amounts HDO, H₃O⁺, and OH⁻. There are also dissolved gases CO₂, O₂, N₂. In addition to the covalent bonds between the oxygen atom and two hydrogen atoms in the water molecule, there is a weak hydrogen bond with adjacent water molecules in liquid water. Concerning woodturning, I don't have a clue what this means. :rolleyes:

D is the chemical symbol for deuterium, a stable isotope of hydrogen in which the nucleus contains a neutron in addition to the proton in hydrogen. FQIW, heavy water is D₂O.
 
Alan Weinberg said:
As usual, a search gives some more info: https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/liquid-glass-finish.20590/#post-243233
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Yes, but a historic search result won't give a new (to the discussion) person's perspective, nor "the latest news", and it stifles conversation. If everyone simply searched archives, there'd be no reason to continue an active discussion board. I personally don't mind same/similar questions getting asked periodically, with or without an associated archive search.
 
Sorry, I must have misinterpreted.
 
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