Which Bowl gouge ?

[Peter D'Attomo]

In the market for a new 5/8~ 3/4 bowl gouge. I'm thinking m2 or m42 but which manufacturer? Is there really any difference between them?

 

[Darryn Achall]

I have Sorby, Carter & Sons, and Crown powdered metal bowl gouges. I prefer the Crown. I feel like there is not enough difference between them to care about unless you are at a very high skill level. The type of grind and how you operate the gouge is so much more important. You can buy a piece of hss, sharpen it and put a handle on it, and turn well if your skill level allows you to. I'm not there yet but working on it!

 

[Lance Mirrer]

Check out Thompson Tools. Owner is a major supporter of the woodturning community and makes excellent Made in USA tools.

1. Bowl Gouges Archives - Thompson Lathe Tools

thompsonlathetools.com

 

[Jaramiah Severns]

I love my Crown PM gouges, but agree that how you grind / sharpen is more important than which brand you choose. That said, there was a thread here recently that showed how the flutes differ among manufacturers. Might be worth a look.

 

[hockenbery]

Is there really any difference between them?

differences in the flute are the first thing I look at.
Yes there are big differences in flutes and what grinds they work well with

if you use the Ellsworth grind the Jamieson gouge made by Thompson is the one to get.

I have another Thompson gouge that doesn’t take the Ellsworth grind at all.
I put A 40/40 on it and it went from a bad tool to a good tool.

 

[Doug Freeman]

There are significant differences in flute shapes, between mfrs and some mfr models/versions.

Here is a thread about bowl gouges https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/bowl-gouge-flute-descriptors.20506/

What steel to get: depends on how you use a bg. I cut my own blanks with a chainsaw, and a bg needs to chew through a lot of bark etc. Haer steels like m42, and particularly powdered metal steel, hold up longer during these “rough” roughing sessions. If you use/buy clear blanks, m2 is just fine. Any of them need resharpened for final cuts.

Parabolic flute shapes are best for the grinds I use, 40/40 and Ellsworth long wing. The Thompson/Jamieson is a large radius V, and accepts those grinds also, and one is my primary roughing bg. I also use Crown m42 Razor bg’s, a very good value.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Another thing to consider is if you want to go handleless.

 

[Richard Coers]

Another vote for Thompson Lathe Tools.

 

[Richard Findley]

I’m a Crown fan myself, main thing I’d recommend is a parabolic flute, which enables the best shaped grinds

 

[Wally Crawford]

I have M2, M42, and Robust nitrate treated tools. I swear I can tell a difference in their ability to hold an edge, with Robust being by far the best. Just purchased another BG from them.

Sorry if I am reopening a topic that is kicked around about every month.

 

[Kent Jaffrey]

I too really like the Crown tools or others with a parabolic shape. It works better than the v-shaped gouges I have.

 

[Ron Solfest]

Flute shape is most important. I too like a parabolic flute. Crown 5/8” is my favorite.

 

[JeffSmith]

When I started turning back at the turn of the century, I was in a club frequented by Dave Schweitzer - one of the founders of D-Way Tools. He was a very generous mentor, was involved in at least 3 or 4 different clubs and taught many members proper tool control and sharpening through both demos at club meetings, one-on-one conversations and regional symposia for many years. As a result I’ve got a very full compliment of D-Way tools and cbn wheels. It’s what I learned on. M42.
Over the years. I’ve also gathered a few Thompson and Robust gouges. All have served me well - the Thompson/Jameson gouges use Ellsworth's grind, the Robusts excel with a 40/40 grind. All hold an edge for a respectable length off time…but the vast majority of the time I reach for the D-Way tools with a moderate swept back grind.

I’ll also note that all three companies are headed by true gentlemen who conduct their businesses with integrity and the benefit of their customers above all. That extends to Jimmie Allen, the current owner of D-Way Tools. Who you deal with is important, too.

 

[Karl Best]

if you use the Ellsworth grind the Jamieson gouge made by Thompson is the one to get.

I bought one of these specifically for that purpose, but it's not parabolic despite the claims. It's a challenge to keep a good shape on the grind. I'm much happier with a true parabolic.

 

[hockenbery]

I bought one of these specifically for that purpose, but it's not parabolic despite the claims. It's a challenge to keep a good shape on the grind. I'm much happier with a true parabolic.

haven’t found it hard to sharpen I use the Ellsworth jig. I do let my wing get a bit longer

The Jamieson does the flute up cut for me better than any other tool have. I think it has something to do with the wider flute.
I have Henry Taylor, Ellsworth signature ( crown?), a robust, and 2 of the Jamieson.
They all do the flute up nicely the Jamieson just does it a tiny tiny bit smoother for me.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

I am thinking of getting the D-Way 3/4” bowl gouge. It is turned down to 5/8” at the handle and will fit in the same handle as my 5/8” bowl gouge. I have other D-Way tools and like them a lot.

 

[Tim Dunbar]

im a big fan of D-Way tools, very high quality, my lathe came with a couple of thompson gouges and they were fine i just seem to like the d-way a little better, i have several other d-way tools, skew, scrapers, parting and beading tools, i like them all and will buy them again when i wear one out

 

[Chris Hoehle]

Crown or Henry Taylor. Not interested in anything that isn't a true parabolic flute. Was disappointed to find out D way isn't despite their website saying so.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I have had Roberto Ferrer here all week and we had this conversation. My take is this, as long as the tool is sharp I personally do not care what shape the flute is. Proof in the pudding is the hundreds of pros who espouse the tools they use but despite the fact that they all may have different flutes they manage to produce fantastic pieces. Same goes for all us non pros for the most part. Nothing wrong with having a special or favorite tool but the tool does not make you a better turner. How you use that special or ordinary tool is what determines the results. With that said I have my favorites, Thompson Tools as they stay sharper longer for me (with D-Way as a backup) and Hunter Carbide which for me has no equal. For proof hand your favorite tool to a newbie and without instruction see what he does with it

 

[Jim McLain]

Don’t overlook the Oneway double ended master flute gouge. It made from m4 steel and is the best value of all gouges. Also has a great flute shape.

I recently purchased an Ashley Harwood a11/v10 gouge and have to say it is one of the finest gouges made.

 

[Chris Hoehle]

I have had Roberto Ferrer here all week and we had this conversation. My take is this, as long as the tool is sharp I personally do not care what shape the flute is. Proof in the pudding is the hundreds of pros who espouse the tools they use but despite the fact that they all may have different flutes they manage to produce fantastic pieces. Same goes for all us non pros for the most part. Nothing wrong with having a special or favorite tool but the tool does not make you a better turner. How you use that special or ordinary tool is what determines the results. With that said I have my favorites, Thompson Tools as they stay sharper longer for me (with D-Way as a backup) and Hunter Carbide which for me has no equal. For proof hand your favorite tool to a newbie and without instruction see what he does with it

This is all true, but the parabolic flute makes getting a good shape on the grind 100% easier. With U's or V's, there is an awkward tendency for there to be a little dip in the transition point between the straight sidewall and the curved section, and while I certainly can overcome that, my view is increasingly why bother when there is Crown M42 that comes in a beautiful true parabola (for less $$ than D way or Thompson to boot, if you know where to look). The steel from our US makers is fantastic, they just need to put in the effort or additional tooling or whatever is required for the parabolic shape if they want my bowl gouge money!

 

[Dave Landers]

Crown or Henry Taylor. Not interested in anything that isn't a true parabolic flute.

My take is this, as long as the tool is sharp I personally do not care what shape the flute is

I agree with both of you. Don't care as long as it's sharp with a reasonable edge profile.
However, I personally have a much easier time getting to that place with a parabolic flute. Probably due to my habits and muscle memory and not any flaw in other flute profiles.

I think there's also a muscle memory component to turning - the edge/flute profile we use has each of us prefer one thing over another (what you're used to is easier for you to use).
Something similar with me is going on with spindle gouges. I have 2 3/8" gouges - a Crown and a newer-to-me Thompson. They look about the same to my eye, and are ground the same - but for some reason I'm just more comfortable with the Crown.

As to the steel, I have seen my Crown PM stay sharp cutting dirty wood (like high-silica mesquite with embedded dirt/gravel) when the Taylor M42 wouldn't cut past the initial touch. But in every-day use there's not a lot of noticeable difference: one sharp tool cuts as well as another sharp tool; one dull tool sucks as bad as another; sharp carbon-steel is better than dull 10v.

 

[Marc Banka]

I second the recommendation for the one-way double ended mastercut gouges. They are a true parabolic gouge made of good steel, m4. So sharpening to 40-40 is a breeze. I really enjoy the flute size, much larger and deeper than the big names. My routine is to sharpen both ends of two 5/8 gouges, so 4 flutes, all the same. I only do this with that gouge since it’s the tool I use for most of my work.

Also, because these aren’t boutique tools, I’m not concerned that they last a lifetime! Use it up and get another.

 

[Peter D'Attomo]

I counted 21 replies with 22 choices so far, hmmm. My take here is it's not the tool, it's the user..
Good, bad, or ugly, I'm leaning to D-way & Thompson. Crown is out of my allowance
Thank you all for your suggestion. Let's go make more chips!

 

[Darryn Achall]

I have had Roberto Ferrer here all week and we had this conversation. My take is this, as long as the tool is sharp I personally do not care what shape the flute is. Proof in the pudding is the hundreds of pros who espouse the tools they use but despite the fact that they all may have different flutes they manage to produce fantastic pieces. Same goes for all us non pros for the most part. Nothing wrong with having a special or favorite tool but the tool does not make you a better turner. How you use that special or ordinary tool is what determines the results. With that said I have my favorites, Thompson Tools as they stay sharper longer for me (with D-Way as a backup) and Hunter Carbide which for me has no equal. For proof hand your favorite tool to a newbie and without instruction see what he does with it

Amen to that! practice, learn, practice

 

[Chris Hoehle]

Good, bad, or ugly, I'm leaning to D-way & Thompson. Crown is out of my allowance

Crown M42 is about the same price or less expensive than both. The powder metal version might be a little more. Make sure you're comparing for example a 1/2" D-way or Thompson to a 3/8" Crown (US vs. UK sizing). If you're comparing 1/2" to 1/2" the Crown will look way more expensive.

 

[Richard Findley]

I have had Roberto Ferrer here all week and we had this conversation. My take is this, as long as the tool is sharp I personally do not care what shape the flute is. Proof in the pudding is the hundreds of pros who espouse the tools they use but despite the fact that they all may have different flutes they manage to produce fantastic pieces. Same goes for all us non pros for the most part. Nothing wrong with having a special or favorite tool but the tool does not make you a better turner. How you use that special or ordinary tool is what determines the results. With that said I have my favorites, Thompson Tools as they stay sharper longer for me (with D-Way as a backup) and Hunter Carbide which for me has no equal. For proof hand your favorite tool to a newbie and without instruction see what he does with it

A decent pro can make any tool work but any bowl turner you choose to mention will opt for a parabolic flute, given the choice

 

[Graham Dolby]

Crown or Henry Taylor. Not interested in anything that isn't a true parabolic flute. Was disappointed to find out D way isn't despite their website saying so.

I've used the Henry Taylor SuperFlute for over 30 years. I believe it was the first parabolic gouge and was designed by Roy Child. I also use a Sorby switching from one to the other when the first gets dull.
I still have enough flute left on both but my next one, if I live long enough, will be a Crown M42.

 

[Dean Center]

Crown is out of my allowance

Crown makes M2 tools and M42 tools, in addition to the PM tools. All have similar flutes, AFAIK, but the price goes M2-->M42-->PM, as you would expect. If you want a Crown shape and are happy with lower priced steel, you can get it.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I started sharpening my tools with the Oneway Wolverine system until Johannes brought out his Vector Grind System. With that said I have never had a dip or anything else in any shaped flute of any tool I have owned. I have owned at least one of every tool listed above and have never had any problems sharpening them. I have used every flute shape there is and none stood out to me as better than another. When Doug Thompson handed me one of his newly made 5/8V to try out when he started making tools I never looked back. Being the President of the Presque Isle Woodturners I would ask new members if they had a gouge, if they didn't I would hand them one of my Oneway Mastercut or Crown or other until they were gone. Since that time I have only tried two different gouges D-Way and Robust. Robust gave me two gouges to review (with restrictions) but the magazine I was writing for folded due to the owners retirement and the article never made it to print. But I did like the D-Way and as stated it is a good back up to the Thompsons. For me it is the steel not the shape. And as far as it goes comparing prices the Thompson tools are comparably priced to any listed in catalogs. As I have stated so many times before because a woodturner owns it he thinks it is the best, that's not bad or good just a fact. Take advice accordingly

 

[Darryl Fective]

I have some Sorby, Crown, and Henry Taylor gouges. I don't really know the shapes, but I like them all and don't really have a preference. (except maybe my Sorby 1/2" that was my very first one)

I also have a Benjamin's Best and a couple Yellowhammer gouges. They are very different and clearly not like the rest of my gouges. I haven't tried Robust, Jamieson, Carter, or Thompson yet. Maybe I should buy one of each and compare.

 

[Russell Nugent]

For 5/8 bowl gouges I have a Thompson deep v, and a few sheffield-Leyland. I struggle with the Thompson, my favorites are the sheffield leyland(that's putting me firmly in the minority of liking cheaper gouges). I've got some sorby and crown gouges in 3/8 and a 1/4 inch oneway gouge. I like them all except I find the Thompson deep v doesn't seem to like the ellsworth grind, just haven't decided what I'm doing with it yet.

 

[Neil S]

I bought one of these specifically for that purpose, but it's not parabolic despite the claims. It's a challenge to keep a good shape on the grind. I'm much happier with a true parabolic.

Lyle Jamieson's BG made by Doug Thompson is an excellent gouge, but it is not parabolic. It has a V flute, albeit a bit more open than most of the other Vs...

Bowl Gouge Flute Descriptors

Bowl Gouge Flute Descriptors - Part 1 of 8 Warning: Long multi-post starter to this thread… and some folk may prefer to be spending their time out in their workshop turning wood than engaging in pedantic stuff about flute profiles and names… :~} I have become concerned about the sloppy and...

www.aawforum.org

I have bowl gouges from almost all of the makers mentioned so far (plus a few not mentioned) and I like and use them all.

However, as pointed out by others already, their flute profiles have a significant effect on the grinds that they can take. Choose the flute profile that best suites the bevel grinds you prefer.

I spend a lot of time testing the performance of the various gouge steels identified in this thread and, unless you are making a living from your woodturning, there will be minimal difference between them at the lathe for most of us. But, it is important to know which grinds work best for your style of turning and getting flute profiles that best match those grinds.

For what it is worth, of the dozen or more bowl gouges in my tool rack, half have V flute profiles and the other half have parabolic flutes, and between them they have many different grinds. So, having gouges from most of the makers, including examples of all of the the steel types, and an equal number of the two main flute styles, I'm quite ecumenical on these matters!

I don't think that most of us can go too far wrong with any of the major BG makers as long as we know which grinds we intend to use with each.

 

[Dean Center]

For 5/8 bowl gouges I have a Thompson deep v, and a few sheffield-Leyland. I struggle with the Thompson, my favorites are the sheffield leyland(that's putting me firmly in the minority of liking cheaper gouges). I've got some sorby and crown gouges in 3/8 and a 1/4 inch oneway gouge. I like them all except I find the Thompson deep v doesn't seem to like the ellsworth grind, just haven't decided what I'm doing with it yet.

Some of the rest of us have found the same thing with the Thompson gouges. They're great tools, but don't work with all grinds.

 

[Mauricio Kolenc]

I agree that it is the turner and not the tools. I also think that for every gouge you find a grind that works well- O sharpen all my tools by hand. Been using Thompson for 7 years now, the steel is way better than any steel from Europe.
The flute shape in the Crown bowl gouges is very user friendly and they are great for finishing cuts.

 

[Chuck Engstrom]

I second the recommendation for the one-way double ended mastercut gouges. They are a true parabolic gouge made of good steel, m4. So sharpening to 40-40 is a breeze. I really enjoy the flute size, much larger and deeper than the big names. My routine is to sharpen both ends of two 5/8 gouges, so 4 flutes, all the same. I only do this with that gouge since it’s the tool I use for most of my work.

Also, because these aren’t boutique tools, I’m not concerned that they last a lifetime! Use it up and get another.

I'm also a fan of the Oneway double-ended gouges but buyers should be aware that they are larger in diameter than their designated size -- 5/8" is not 0.625, it's 0.640, which makes a difference in which handle adapters it will fit into. Smaller sizes likewise larger than specified but I don't have the numbers at hand. Great gouges!

 

[Tom Albrecht]

In the market for a new 5/8~ 3/4 bowl gouge. I'm thinking m2 or m42 but which manufacturer? Is there really any difference between them?

Turning Tools – New – Gouges – Skews – Scrapers – Robust Tools