Wood filler for turnings

[Mark Ahlenius]

Hi,

I have started turning boxes with an inset lid made from different woods. When I glue in the turned lid insert, it’s a tight fit but by the time the Titebond glue dries, its shrunk and a gap appears before I can re-turn the top. I am thinking that the water in the glue may be causing the shrinkage.

Looking for suggestions for a filler to help hide this crack which has opened up. Please see the attached pictures. I could just create a filler with glue and the resident sawdust from the outer box (Norwegian maple) but thought I would first ask the community here.

Thank you in advance.

‘Mark

 

[hughie]

Seeing you already have some dark lines on top of the lid, you could use CA and any number of dark filling material, ie coffee grounds new or used,ebony powder or any super dark wood. I these situations I tend to make it a feature as any attempts to hide faults like this tend to look just like what it is. Wabi Sabi the Japanese call it, In traditional Japanese aesthetics, wabi-sabi (侘び寂び) centers on the acceptance of transience and imperfection

 

[Darryn Achall]

Appears from your images that the lid fits in tight in the areas along the lid end grain and has gaps along the sides. In my experience this would indicate that the bottom of the box has moisture and is moving slightly so it's no longer perfectly round as it dries. Maybe the lid is moving too. Hughie's idea of making it a filled feature seem like a good solution.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

My thought also. The insert is at least "damp" if not wet when turned and shrinks when it dries further. Measure the long grain and cross grain diameters. They are probably no longer equal.

 

[Mark Ahlenius]

Seeing you already have some dark lines on top of the lid, you could use CA and any number of dark filling material, ie coffee grounds new or used,ebony powder or any super dark wood. I these situations I tend to make it a feature as any attempts to hide faults like this tend to look just like what it is. Wabi Sabi the Japanese call it, In traditional Japanese aesthetics, wabi-sabi (侘び寂び) centers on the acceptance of transience and imperfection

Thank you for these suggestions. Am waiting a bit longer for it to dry completely. Unfortunately the gap is not uniform around the lid. On another lid which I glued with a rosewood insert, it’s even more pronounced (see pix) and non-uniform. On that one, the gap is about 1/2 way around the insert. Perhaps as you suggest, a dark dye in the CA glue would help to hide this. Thank you again.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Wabi Sabi the Japanese call it, In traditional Japanese aesthetics, wabi-sabi (侘び寂び) centers on the acceptance of transience and imperfection

I definitely have to remember this.

 

[David A Morris]

I'm new to turning but have been making solid wood furniture for 15 years. If you want to prevent this from happening in the future, be sure that the moisture content in the dissimilar woods is equal. You can see that the lid shrank exactly where you would expect it to. If you just want to fix this one, then your own idea of using glue mixed with the sanding dust will work but will still be visible. Using a dark, contrasting saw dust might not be a bad idea, giving it a ring around the collar, as it were.

 

[Mark Ahlenius]

My thought also. The insert is at least "damp" if not wet when turned and shrinks when it dries further. Measure the long grain and cross grain diameters. They are probably no longer equal.

Hi, thanks for your response. This insert was not wet at all, except perhaps from the Titebond glue.
Much appreciated.

 

[Mark Ahlenius]

Hi
Here’s a 2nd type of wood insert and this time it’s more pronounced. This was a piece of rosewood which I purchased, resawed and then book matched to make a larger piece. On this one, the gap goes about 1/2 way around the lid. For this one, I think the CA glue with a dark dye added may help as the insert is dark to start with.

Appreciate everyone’s comments! Thank you all.

‘Mark

 

[hughie]

I definitely have to remember this.

Its pretty much ingrained in all that I do, as I tend to use blanks that most run from

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

I have started turning boxes with an inset lid made from different woods. When I glue in the turned lid insert, it’s a tight fit but by the time the Titebond glue dries, its shrunk and a gap appears before I can re-turn the top. I am thinking that the water in the glue may be causing the shrinkage.

? If it is a lid why are you gluing it in place ? What is on the other end ? What is the grain orientation of the sides of the box ?

 

[Richard Coers]

Water has never caused shrinkage in wood, unless you mean loosing moisture in the wood causes shrinkage. What is the moisture content of the wood you are using? I suggest you change the design so you don’t use an insert. Gap filling is never a fix and suggests inferior work. At least in my shop.

 

[Peter D'Attomo]

My sensei told me how to tell if a box is turned or carved. The carved box is round, turned are not, they will move, just give it a few days

 

[Dean Center]

Hi, thanks for your response. This insert was not wet at all, except perhaps from the Titebond glue.
Much appreciated.

I have turned a lot of boxes, always from dry wood, and periodically get reminded that they often move after they're 'finished'. Whether this is relief of stress in the wood or further drying, they get oval. Different woods are going to move different amounts.

Assuming these are end grain boxes and you're putting in an end grain insert, I'd suggest turning to almost finished diameter, let both pieces sit for 2-3 days, true them up, and then glue together.

If you're making side grain 'boxes', you might get them to work out by aligning the grain, so as the end grain elongates on the two pieces, it does so in the same direction. Personally, I don't expect face grain 'boxes'/lidded bowls to have a snug/friction fit/piston fit/suction fit lid.

I know you'd like to blame the glue, but IMHO that's not the culprit.