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Yet... another CBN question...

M

Manny Yabar

Joined
Sep 26, 2025
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Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Hello friends,
I have been searching in the forums on recomendations on where to buy CBN wheels.... any place you can recommend.. a brand name you can suggest? Amazon has a bunch , could you share a link?
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D-Way.

D-Way Tools - Exceptional Quality Wood Turning Tools

Finely crafted wood turning tools invented by an internationally renowned woodturner. D-Way tools specializes in bowl gouges, spindle gouges, beading tools, negative rake scrapers, parting tools and CBN wheels. Each tool is inspected and sharpened before shipment - ready to use right out of the...
d-waytools.com d-waytools.com
 
I second D-Way. I replaced a 12-year old CBN wheel that was manufactured in Austria. No longer available here. I went with a Rikon 8" CBN 180 grit (same grit as previous wheel). After only 6 months, I see a definite difference in the material in the center of the wheel - which gets the most use - compared to the outer edges. I put a straight edge perpendicular to the wheel, and there is a 'divot' in the center. If this wheel lasts me to the end of the year, I would be surprised.

Now, given that I do this full time, and likely turn more than many on this forum, I still expected a longer life from this wheel. I'm not turning every single day, because I spend a lot of time on my surface embellishments. I average 2-3 days turning out of every 7. I will be getting a D-Way.
 
D-Way Tools- I have the 120 Grit, I believe which replaced the 80 Grit they used to sell. Absolutely can't go wrong.
I believe these are made in Ukraine.
 

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I have mostly D Way. I do have one from Woodturner's Wonders, a 1000 grit from when Ken Rizza used to own the business. Everybody is now selling CBN wheels. I don't know if there are any huge differences between them or not. I think Cindy Drozda used to sell the ones that were made in Austria, but not sure if she still does. For one wheel, get a 180 grit. For a second wheel, get a 600 grit.

robo hippy
 
I used Dway and woodturnerswonders. I now have an Amazon wheel I'm trying out. The first one I got from them had a shaft hole that was a hair undersized. Had to send it back. Theone I have now seems OK but I've only been using it about 3 months. Like Donna I turn daily.
 
I've been happy with UF Sharp on Amazon. 600 and 80 grit, around two "5/8 bowl gouges" worth of use between them. Can't say I notice any difference from when they were new. Not as wide as the dway, but nearly 1/3rd the price.

The lighter wheels are worth it unless you have a powerful grinder.

FWIW I'd probably get a 60 grit for my coarse wheel, good for a nasty scraper burr and reshaping.
 
The grits you get are a matter of opinion, what you grind, AND how you like your tools. I use 60 and 600 grit 8" CBN wheels on a bench grinder - the coarse to reshape tools and the 600 to sharpen almost all tools. I also keep a 10" 1200 grit wheel on a very slow speed Tormek that I use for spindle gouges - I want my spindle gouges to be razor sharp.

Whatever grits you get they should last forever if not abused. I like to put a little honing compound on the 1200 grit before sharpening.

Also, there are different widths, corners, and sides to consider.
After trying several I only buy
- wide wheels
- square corners (not radiused)
- 1" of grid down both sides from the corner.

The narrower wheels don't give enough width to do easily grind some gouge wings with a jig.

The radiused edges are a waste of good wheel width (cut about 1/2" off the useful width), made primarily to sharpen rounded tip hollowing bits permanently mounted on the ends of rods (or at least that's what I was told and it made sense.)

The square corners and grit down 1" of the flat sides makes it easier to grind certain custom tools.
This I made using the corners and side grit - it allows me to cut a chuck recess on one side of a face-orientated blank when the tailstock is otherwise in the way.
I use the flats more than I thought I would.
Dovetail_A.jpg

JKJ
 
For durability and life span. In general there's two basic methods of producing CBN wheels. Electroplating, or a ceramic/vitrified matrix fired in a kiln. The electroplated are supposedly only a single layer and can't be dressed, the ceramic can be. I'd think a good tool supplier would specify which type there CBN wheels are. The electroplating deposition does seem recommended when grinding very hard cutting tool materials. So my best guess would be Donna's Ryobi wheel might be the ceramic type? Like John, I also have a Tormek, and would bet a lot that the far slower rpm and wet grinding would vastly increase wheel life.
 
I may have been the first woodturner to have CBN wheels. I called Norton to ask about better grinding wheels since the one I had was worn down too small in about 6 months. They told me of a place locally that would make CBN wheels for me and told me I wanted CBN instead of diamond. It was Burton Saw. They bonded about 3/16 inch of a "matrix" onto an aluminum hub. It did work nicely, but the wheels would go out of round and needed to be taken back to the maker to have them trued up again. Woodcraft did have a 1 inch wide diamond wheel which was the same thing for a while, but discontinued it. Then, I think it was the Optigrind wheel from Austria that came out next, then D Way, and a host of others. I do prefer the 1 1/2 inch wide wheels. The problem I had with the 1 inch wheels was running off the side of the wheel when sharpening and putting a big divot into the wing of my gouges. Never did that with the wide wheels. Can't remember when I got that first set of wheels.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
I may have been the first woodturner to have CBN wheels. I called Norton to ask about better grinding wheels since the one I had was worn down too small in about 6 months. They told me of a place locally that would make CBN wheels for me and told me I wanted CBN instead of diamond. It was Burton Saw. They bonded about 3/16 inch of a "matrix" onto an aluminum hub. It did work nicely, but the wheels would go out of round and needed to be taken back to the maker to have them trued up again. Woodcraft did have a 1 inch wide diamond wheel which was the same thing for a while, but discontinued it. Then, I think it was the Optigrind wheel from Austria that came out next, then D Way, and a host of others. I do prefer the 1 1/2 inch wide wheels. The problem I had with the 1 inch wheels was running off the side of the wheel when sharpening and putting a big divot into the wing of my gouges. Never did that with the wide wheels. Can't remember when I got that first set of wheels.

robo hippy
Click to expand...
thank you, where do you buy them?
 
After being one of the last holdouts when CBN started to catch on with woodturners, I've bought and used numerous wheels.

I bought them all from Ken Rizza since he had good prices, quality wheels, and would special order wheels in grits he didn't keep in stock. They are all electro plated aluminum wheels (kinder than heavy steel to lower powered bench grinders), and as I mentioned I always get the wide wheels, square corners, 1" of grit down the sides, with 5/8" arbor hole, and use the spherical washers whether I need them or not.. I wouldn't hesitate to order from the new owners of Woodturners Wonders again if I wanted another wheel as long as Ken is still advising and maybe twisting arms if needed.

I've given away several wheels as I refined my grit preferences, one with radiused edges, and to some friends - a bench grinder with a CBN wheel attached makes a nice present for a new woodturner. There's no reason to store a shelf full of wheels I'll never use again!

Note that even aluminum wheels take a long time to spin down on bench grinders without built-in breaks. I use a stick, about 1/2" x 1.5" x 8" and stop the wheel by holding the stick on the side of the wheel just below the wide rim. I don't like a wheel spinning silently when I'm moving around.

JKJ
 
As a rule of thumb for new turners, I would suggest "Get your tools and supplies any place BUT Amazon." Certainly, Amazon and it's related vendors can be a source for tools and supplies, when you know what you're looking for and how to tell what's actually a good product from a reliable seller, but for folks starting out, not the best choice, IMHO.

There are a number of good, often small, vendors in the woodturning world who will generally provide good products and good service. Craftsupplies and Packard are our 'one stop shopping' places for a wide array of needs. Many of the others can be found in the back of the American Woodturner, or by asking on here as the OP did.
 
Myself I can't understand how one could wear out a CBN wheel if you were just sharpening your tools and not reshaping. If a tool in my shop needs reshaping I use a white wheel for doing that. I just got 2 new 1/2" V's from Doug Thompson and I will change his grind to the grind of the Vector Grind by using my extra plate and roughing in the tools on the white wheel. I seriously doubt that I will ever completely use up a Thompson tool, I've been using them for twenty years and I have used less than an 2" of my 20 year old 5/8 V. The Vector grind fixture and the 180 CBN wheel allow me to just remove thousands of an inch to resharpen my tools.
 
Well, since D Way is in the NW, I do see Jimmy, or is it Jimmie.... He does come to the Oregon Woodturning Symposium, and has demoed at our club a few times. I would guess that if you were in the neighborhood and stopped by, he would sell you stuff.

As for durability, one comment from Stuart Batty that I agree with is that the life of a CBN wheel for a production turner is about 5 years. I NEVER sharpen carbide on my CBN wheels, that is what diamond is made for. I did catch a "German Science Guy" video about there being a synthetic product that is harder than diamond. Wondering what the uses could be....

robo hippy
 
John K Jordan said:
After being one of the last holdouts when CBN started to catch on with woodturners, I've bought and used numerous wheels.

I bought them all from Ken Rizza since he had good prices, quality wheels, and would special order wheels in grits he didn't keep in stock. They are all electro plated aluminum wheels (kinder than heavy steel to lower powered bench grinders), and as I mentioned I always get the wide wheels, square corners, 1" of grit down the sides, with 5/8" arbor hole, and use the spherical washers whether I need them or not.. I wouldn't hesitate to order from the new owners of Woodturners Wonders again if I wanted another wheel as long as Ken is still advising and maybe twisting arms if needed.

I've given away several wheels as I refined my grit preferences, one with radiused edges, and to some friends - a bench grinder with a CBN wheel attached makes a nice present for a new woodturner. There's no reason to store a shelf full of wheels I'll never use again!

Note that even aluminum wheels take a long time to spin down on bench grinders without built-in breaks. I use a stick, about 1/2" x 1.5" x 8" and stop the wheel by holding the stick on the side of the wheel just below the wide rim. I don't like a wheel spinning silently when I'm moving around.

JKJ
Click to expand...
I have been reading about CBN wheel, and the electro plated wheels have a thin layer of material, while the resin bond much thicker...I don't know how lond the electro plated ones last (of course it depends how much you use it, but in comparison?)
 
Manny Yabar said:
I have been reading about CBN wheel, and the electro plated wheels have a thin layer of material, while the resin bond much thicker...I don't know how lond the electro plated ones last (of course it depends how much you use it, but in comparison?)
Click to expand...

I've never used a matrix CBN (have a narrow matrix diamond wheel which is not good for lathe tools) but unlike the single layer electroplated CBN, matrix tools may need regular dressing to keep them flat. The single layer CBN wheels last almost forever if not abused (don't use a LOT of force, don't grind carbide, I've had a number of aluminum CBN and never wore one out with years of use, just gave them away when I went to different grits. One 600 grit 8: wheel did have a scar from when someone gouged the surface in a spot (like you might get a catch in wood if you stick the tool directly into the wood. I bought a new one from Ken on a whim and gave the old one to someone who reported it worked well for him.

Also, it's not a good idea to grind soft metals like aluminum on a CBN wheel which will gum up the wheel, but some report that sharpening HSS tools for a while will "clean" the wheel.

Note that Tormek and others sell single layer electroplated diamond wheels but these are not recommeneded for high speed grinding of steel or HSS. I understand the high speeds can generate a lot of heat (on the molecular level) causing the carbon in the steel to react unfavorably with the carbon in the diamonds and degrade them. Single-layer diamond on the very low speed Tomek no problem. I use a 1200 grit CBN on a Tormek for my spindle gouges.

JKJ
 
That's 100% right and exactly what happens with high grinding wheel rotational speeds John. It's the very high heat created at those speeds and with high speed steels that ruin the diamond coating. Due to the carbon content in the cutting tool and that high heat, the pieces of diamond start breaking down very quickly. CBN doesn't have the same issues with high carbon metals. It can grind carbide, but a diamond wheel is better in every way for that. For some of my metal cutting tools, I have one of the green silicon carbide wheels for my high rpm 8" bench grinder. But at best it's only good enough for rough shaping a brazed carbide tipped tool into shape with the approximate relief and clearance angles. But the wheels surface gets worn and breaks down quite quickly. And the tool shaping is quite slow if a fair amount has to be removed. So as I said, those silicon carbide wheels are a roughing wheel.

For the metal cutting industry, a few slow speed carbide lapping tools were available. The Accu-Finish probably the best known. They only needed a spritz of water on the wheel once in awhile. But new ,they were excessively high priced for my home shop. Even used there still usually expensive unless you get very lucky. Instead I did end up buying a Tormek, and while they seem to mostly ignore metal cutting tools, it can work well to put the proper lapped finish on the tool. There's slight variances between the grades of high speed steel and carbide between wood working cutting tools and metal cutting, but overall the same high or slow speed wheels work just as well. The design has changed or there not available any more, but years ago I bought an Eze-Lap and I think it's a 3" x 9" single sided 1200 grit diamond lapping bench block for final finishing. However wood turning probably involves far more tool touch ups with some woods than most common metals. Building a close working replica of one of the Holtzapffel or Evans goniostat's is on my list at some point.

Just in case some may not know, high speed dry grinding of any carbide in an enclosed area is a real bad idea for your health and lungs unless you've also got a good dust collection system. It's mostly caused by the binder materials used during the carbide sintering process.

And for a bit of trivia, with some of the usual or exotic non ferrous metals, diamond tipped cutting inserts aren't uncommon today. I'd be sitting down if you check the price per insert though. Since replaceable tip carbide wood turning tools seem to be growing in popularity, one thing that might be worth trying are what's known as factory lapped carbide tips, a bit more cost of course. There mostly designed for aluminum turning and provide much better surface finishes. There also not available for all sizes and insert shapes. I'm so far guessing only, but logically, the same result might be true while turning wood?
 
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