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After 33 years with my Woodfast, a Vicmarc VL240 is now on the way!

Dean Center said:
Odie, you must be in heaven with all these new problems to think up solutions for. "It's what you're good at, Butch"--The Sundance Kid, r.i.p.
Click to expand...

Hello Dean...... :)

Ha,ha......It does give a guy a certain sense of satisfaction to come up with solutions that solve troubling problems. :)

....and, it also gives you plenty of aggravation along the way! :)
 
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Kent Reisdorph said:
Grabbed a photo so I could show the difference.

View attachment 79594
Click to expand...

I see.....and suspect any sliding, or sliding AND pivoting headstock would be subject to debris getting inbetween the mating surfaces. Shouldn't be too much of a problem, but there should be some effort to keep those surfaces clean.

=o=
 
That shelf with the metal plate is great for storing magnetic jigs, plus there is space furthest from the headstock for the light.....when that is appropriate.

=o=
20250915_142338.jpg

Here's a little tip for you guys....

See those plastic mini-clamps hanging on the dowel?

They are used on turning tools to show that the tool hasn't been used since it was last sharpened. I have a habit of sharpening several tools at a time, and occasionally at a later time, I've forgotten whether it is a freshy sharpened tool or not. This is the solution to that.....no guesswork! :)
 
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The first bowl (maple burl) is coming along very slowly, but I'm feeling very good about the Vicmarc's performance so far.

I keep stopping to contemplate and modify my old tooling to adapt to the Vicmarc.

The interior was turned at a 15° +/- headstock setting. Wonderful!....very easy on the back. It's an inward slanted wall bowl.....pretty easy. When I do my undercut rim, I might need to swing the headstock a little further out.

20250918_213409.jpg 20250918_213454.jpg
There is no indexing hole for a 15° setting. The only need for accurate headstock settings is 0° and 90°, so I decided to take the index pin out of the equation and slide some rubber tubing over the indexing shaft.....It now won't reach the index hole. I won't be getting an outboard rig, and when I need to use the tailstock, I'll use the index pin for accuracy.
20250918_215121.jpg

The headstock mating surfaces appear to be somewhat in the shape of an upside down tophat, and both surfaces mate with a corresponding machined surface on the lower casting.....so, lots of surface area contact......internally, it's sort of like a piston in a cylinder with the brim of the tophat resting directly on the top machined surface of the bedways. Looks like some great engineering went into the design of this VL240 lathe. :)

=o=
 
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You can see here just how much the headstock was intentionally shaped to access the back side of a bowl. My old Woodfast lathe was good, but this is another level of accessibility. (Something like the Powermatic 2520B is just horrible in this regard.....but the 3520c addresses this by extending the outboard bearing housing.)

=o=
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The whole setup looks great Odie! I like how you are taking it slow in setting things up the way you would like them. So many of us rush to try something new without first spending time setting things up and getting used to it.
 
Odie said:
decided to take the index pin out of the equation and slide some rubber tubing over the indexing shaft...
Click to expand...
Is the pin easily removed?
Rather than pull off that rubber tube when you need indexing, and then put it back on. Could you just leave the pin out (and safely stored) when you don't want indexing. The hole could be covered with a piece of tape or plugged with a rubber stopper, if you're concerned about sawdust getting in.
 
Gabriel Hoff said:
The whole setup looks great Odie! I like how you are taking it slow in setting things up the way you would like them. So many of us rush to try something new without first spending time setting things up and getting used to it.
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You're right about that, Gabriel...... I'm naturally slow in just about everything I do anyway......I guess that's an asset in this case! :)
Mark Jundanian said:
Is the pin easily removed?
Rather than pull off that rubber tube when you need indexing, and then put it back on. Could you just leave the pin out (and safely stored) when you don't want indexing. The hole could be covered with a piece of tape or plugged with a rubber stopper, if you're concerned about sawdust getting in.
Click to expand...
Hadn't thought of that Mark.....that would work too.

=o=
 
Odie said:
I'm very lucky to have purchased this offset tool rest attachment.....it's perfect for this need. I bought it several years ago from Brent at Robust. It's very well made....very strong!......and, it allows me to work in close to the wasteblock.
Click to expand...

Great idea, thanks. My first thought was to make one but I think I'll just order one:

Odie said:
that locking handle for the Vicmarc banjo sometimes gets in the way. Even Woodfast was wise to that problem, and drilled/tapped another hole for the lock down handle.
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Yikes. Fortunately cast iron is real easy to drill and tap. (The PM banjo I have came with three tapped holes. Send a note about all these things and tell V to get their act together. :))

I can see the problem with the stop bar. My PM lathe doesn't have a bar but a paddle switch in little magnetic box with a cord long enough to position the switch anywhere reasonable. I usually keep it on the side of the bed a little way to the right of where I usually stand where I can turn it off with my leg if needed. A positionable switch like that might be a reasonable addition for some lathes.

JKJ
 
John K Jordan said:
Fortunately cast iron is real easy to drill and tap.
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Yeah, but, I've only got one shot at getting the hole drilled perfect, so that it matches the hole in the adaptor sleeve and perfectly aligns with the very center of the tool rest post .

I suppose the only way to do that, is to solidly mount the banjo to my drill press....and, don't even think of trying to do this with a hand held drill.

Any suggestions on how to do this?

Might think of building a onetime-use mount somehow.... ?

=o=

Edit: Woah there Nellie........just got an idea.....the light bulb just turned on!!!! :)

Maybe I ought to just get a set screw, or cut down bolt.....and, use the original tapped hole when the handle gets in the way. :)
 
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Odie said:
Yeah, but, I've only got one shot at getting the hole drilled perfect, so that it matches the hole in the adaptor sleeve and perfectly aligns with the very center of the tool rest post .

I suppose the only way to do that, is to solidly mount the banjo to my drill press....and, don't even think of trying to do this with a hand held drill.

Any suggestions on how to do this?

Might think of building a onetime-use mount somehow.... ?

=o=

Edit: Woah there Nellie........just got an idea.....the light bulb just turned on!!!! :)

Maybe I ought to just get a set screw, or cut down bolt.....and, use the original tapped hole when the handle gets in the way. :)
Click to expand...
There must be a local machine shop in Missoula that could drill the hole, then you tap it. A one-time investment cost.

I think drilling that hole in the natural horizontal banjo position would be safest, which means using a mill to drill.
 
Observation:

The bowl I'm turning in post #167 had the least amount of detectable vibration (according to my vibrometer) somewhere around 5-600rpm. In the past, similar chunks of wood to this one would likely have turned best at around 7-800rpm. I'm not quite sure why this is so. It might be that there is some difference in this particular piece of wood.......or, something else is at play. (BTW: The lathe is now anchored at all four corners by cement anchors.)

For the newbies tuned in: The best tearout free cuts are obtained with the least inherent vibration of the bowl. The best way to reduce that, is to adjust the rpm accordingly. Even if you can't detect the vibration at all with your hand, if it's there, it's still going to interfere with the "perfect cut". This may be true, but there are a number of other factors that will be a component of that equation......among those are the sharpness of the tool, and the turner's tool handling skills.

=o=
 
Well for me as good as any lathe is or can be, by the very nature of wood turning being freehand no lathe will ever be perfect. But by combining experience with a well-made lathe, we can get close. So perfection comes in the marriage of turner and lathe? maybe.
After many years of turning, I decided to design and build my own lathe, as specific as I could to my requirements, driven by thoughts of "I've got this" ," I can do this" along with a lot of engineering experience, and yet I have modified it 1/2 dozen times from the original. What was I thinking? :)
So I reckon you will overcome any perceived shortcomings, it is part of being a wood turner and here collective wisdom always chimes in with ideas and that too is part of being a wood turner.
 
Odie said:
Observation:

The bowl I'm turning in post #167 had the least amount of detectable vibration (according to my vibrometer) somewhere around 5-600rpm. In the past, similar chunks of wood to this one would likely have turned best at around 7-800rpm. I'm not quite sure why this is so. It might be that there is some difference in this particular piece of wood.......or, something else is at play. (BTW: The lathe is now anchored at all four corners by cement anchors.)

For the newbies tuned in: The best tearout free cuts are obtained with the least inherent vibration of the bowl. The best way to reduce that, is to adjust the rpm accordingly. Even if you can't detect the vibration at all with your hand, if it's there, it's still going to interfere with the "perfect cut". This may be true, but there are a number of other factors that will be a component of that equation......among those are the sharpness of the tool, and the turner's tool handling skills.

=o=
Click to expand...
All variables considered, it may just be inevitable, natural harmonics at play at that sweet spot. I'll go out on a limb and say that everything mechanical has some physical makeup "blend" that will cause harmonics to "allow the bell to ring", as it were. Like a certain car engine rpm that will cause a catalytic converter heat shield to buzz, but change the rpm a bit, buzz is gone. But now you know, and you'll come up with some method to quell those vibes.
 
Steve Tiedman said:
But now you know, and you'll come up with some method to quell those vibes.
Click to expand...

The secret lies with the vibrometer......that little homemade contraption is far more sensitive than your fingers on the bedways or headstock. Without it, it's much more of a guessing game when searching for that sweet spot! :)

=o=
 
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Odie said:
Edit: Woah there Nellie........just got an idea.....the light bulb just turned on!!!! :)

Maybe I ought to just get a set screw, or cut down bolt.....and, use the original tapped hole when the handle gets in the way. :)
Click to expand...

It's a done deal now. Cutting down a bolt gives me another badly needed inch or so of room.
20250920_165050.jpg
I built a little kit to install the cutdown bolt. It's made from a temporary wrench and a little tube to store the unused bolt.
20250920_164927.jpg
It now hangs on the wall behind the lathe:
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One more problem solved, but Vicmarc should have taken care of this in the initial design of the banjo.

=o=
 
@robo hippy

I'm moving your post from another thread here, since a few owners of Vicmarc lathes will be reading this and will be interested in how this pans out.

From another thread in the newbie forum:
I find myself saying bad words to my Vicmark banjo! I have to remember to really tighten it down to make sure it doesn't slip as I turn. Most of the time I am in production mode so I am taking heavy roughing cuts. I guess I will get used to it eventually....

robo hippy
Click to expand...

At this point, some of us are realizing that the Vicmarc VL240 lathe's weak point is the banjo. The banjo is heavily built and overall looks good, the one problem I see is how Vicmarc chose to secure the tool rest to the banjo.

Not only has the banjo been poorly designed to secure a tool rest, because of it's use of a grub screw instead of other well known better methods.....now I see robo is having trouble with his, as well.

Then there is the problem of the lock down lever gets in the way of turning some common large and/or platter like shapes.....which has been addressed in the preceding posts here.

Question for robo: Is your tool rest slipping radially, or vertically?
If the slip is vertically, then it might help to use a hose clamp for height settings of the tool rest.
If we are talking radial slipping......I don't know that the fix might be off hand.

Another question for robo: Did you have slippage when the banjo was brand new? I ask because this is a problem I dealt with on my old Woodfast lathe as well. For me, the problem was a gradual change.

Now, if the slippage was a problem that got worse over time, then it's possible that the internal threads of the grub screw might be distorted a bit. The cast iron of the banjo is softer, and excessive pressure in tightening down the locking mechanism may cause a condition where the tool rest will slip.

=o=
 
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For what it is worth, the tool rest on my VL240 has never slipped on me, radially or vertically, and I have given it some pretty hard treatment when rounding large irregularly shaped blanks. In assessing this situation, it might be worth nothing that I have never heard Glenn Lucas, who turns dozens of big bowls a day when in production mode on his Vicmarcs, complain about the banjo or tool rest.

As for access to the back, I have always been able to get behind my bowls and platters by bringing in the banjo at an angle and using a tool rest that reaches to where I want it. I have never found the locking screw of the tool rest to be in the way. Your cut down bolt seems to do the trick for you, but I don't think I would need it.

BTW, about the interface between the headstock and the bed, I don't see any risk of dust getting in there, but I do blow the dust away from the locking pin hole before I take it out to rotate the head: I don't want anything going down there, it is a very close fit.
 
Odie, the post slips mostly vertically. Some times it twists a bit, but not often. I have thought about a collar, but as much as I reposition my tool rest from inside to outsides of bowls, I would have to have a couple of collars. I even thought about Lyle's threaded nut idea. Mostly I am just remembering to snug it down pretty tight. Once the handle strips out, I will have a sliding T handle made like are on most bench vices. I really like the locking clamps/wedges on the Robust lathes. I would think their one for a 16 inch lathe would be too short, and the one for the Beauty would be too tall.

robo hippy
 
Gord Cameron said:
For what it is worth, the tool rest on my VL240 has never slipped on me, radially or vertically, and I have given it some pretty hard treatment when rounding large irregularly shaped blanks. In assessing this situation, it might be worth nothing that I have never heard Glenn Lucas, who turns dozens of big bowls a day when in production mode on his Vicmarcs, complain about the banjo or tool rest.

As for access to the back, I have always been able to get behind my bowls and platters by bringing in the banjo at an angle and using a tool rest that reaches to where I want it. I have never found the locking screw of the tool rest to be in the way. Your cut down bolt seems to do the trick for you, but I don't think I would need it.

BTW, about the interface between the headstock and the bed, I don't see any risk of dust getting in there, but I do blow the dust away from the locking pin hole before I take it out to rotate the head: I don't want anything going down there, it is a very close fit.
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I was just about to write a post saying the same thing. Going on two years with my VL240 and have had zero issues with the banjo.
 
Gord Cameron said:
For what it is worth, the tool rest on my VL240 has never slipped on me, radially or vertically, and I have given it some pretty hard treatment when rounding large irregularly shaped blanks. In assessing this situation, it might be worth nothing that I have never heard Glenn Lucas, who turns dozens of big bowls a day when in production mode on his Vicmarcs, complain about the banjo or tool rest.

As for access to the back, I have always been able to get behind my bowls and platters by bringing in the banjo at an angle and using a tool rest that reaches to where I want it. I have never found the locking screw of the tool rest to be in the way. Your cut down bolt seems to do the trick for you, but I don't think I would need it.

BTW, about the interface between the headstock and the bed, I don't see any risk of dust getting in there, but I do blow the dust away from the locking pin hole before I take it out to rotate the head: I don't want anything going down there, it is a very close fit.
Click to expand...
Kevin Jesequel said:
I was just about to write a post saying the same thing. Going on two years with my VL240 and have had zero issues with the banjo.
Click to expand...

Good to know you guys have zero issues with the Vicmaarc banjo.

I doubt I'll have any issues either......now that I know the drawbacks.

However, I have personal experience with the pitfalls of the design. I spent over 25 years with the Woodfast banjo, which is essentially the same as the Vicmarc banjo......threaded hole in cast iron. Eventually, tool rests would slip and the lock down would loosen. I kept tightening harder, until eventually I was using a cheater to go even harder on the lock lever.

The end of this story is when I replaced the Woodfast banjo with the Robust banjo, the problem no longer existed. The Robust banjo utilizes a two piece pinch type of locking mechanism. There are only threads in steel.....not cast iron in this method, and I consider it much better for the intended purpose than a simple grub screw.

=o=
 
I have had a Vl300 for over 16 years now. The banjo has never given me problems. The only problem I have had was knocking the remote switch off and having it stop working. The fist time it happened, I had my electrician friend look at. He opened up the remote box and immediately noticed that the switch inside had come unplugged. I have had to put it back several times since. Maybe if I was more careful, it would not get dropped on the floor as much.
 
VL300/200/100, never an issue with any of them. The VL240 banjo does look a bit different from the 300 and 200.

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Here's an interesting little tidbit......the headstock actually swings the other way about 5° or so.

I see this as another option to position your body in a way that might prove beneficial under certain conditions.

=o=
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Well, I have the handle like Odie, which is cheap pot metal on a spring loaded device so you can adjust the timing of the handle, and the "set" screw is a hardened metal. I do not have one like Steve Tiedman has, which I think would be far better since you could apply more pressure, and you would never have to worry about the sprocket stripping like mine will eventually. I had the same spring loaded set up on my Robust, which was one of the first ones out, and it stripped out. I put a mini set of vice grips on it and there have been no issue. The locking wedges, like on the PM 3520C is the best way I have seen for securing the tool rest.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
Well, I have the handle like Odie, which is cheap pot metal on a spring loaded device so you can adjust the timing of the handle, and the "set" screw is a hardened metal. I do not have one like Steve Tiedman has, which I think would be far better since you could apply more pressure, and you would never have to worry about the sprocket stripping like mine will eventually. I had the same spring loaded set up on my Robust, which was one of the first ones out, and it stripped out. I put a mini set of vice grips on it and there have been no issue. The locking wedges, like on the PM 3520C is the best way I have seen for securing the tool rest.

robo hippy
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Hello robo. Message #59 of this thread links back to the handle source I bought from. They come in plastic, cast zinc, and all-steel construction. I bought the all-steel version and it is very well built. The adjustible position splines feel akin to stout Acme thead construction vs. little fine slots (to use machine threads as an analogy). The all-steel version is a lifetime device, I'm confident of that.
 
robo hippy said:
Well, I have the handle like Odie, which is cheap pot metal on a spring loaded device so you can adjust the timing of the handle, and the "set" screw is a hardened metal. I do not have one like Steve Tiedman has, which I think would be far better since you could apply more pressure, ...
Click to expand...

I've had the spring adjustable handle on every banjo on every lathe I've had. I like it since it's made to adjust the handle to where it's in the exact position I want. These handles have not once failed to hold securely in 5 lathes. In fact, based on that experience I've never even imagined a tool rest not being held securely.

I wondered about the solid metal one. Is there a way to adjust the handle locked position? What if you want or need a different handle angle?

JKJ
 
John K Jordan said:
I wondered about the solid metal one. Is there a way to adjust the handle locked position? What if you want or need a different handle angle?
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No

The only way to make that adjustment on that bent handle is to make it shorter....or add something like a piece of brass.

I dealt with this exact issue with the Woodfast banjo. At least Woodfast had a sliding "T" handle, so it could be flipped 180°.....can't even do that with the Vicmarc.

=o=
 
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@Odie, in my previous message #189 above, then yours next, comparing the two banjos, the swing of my banjo locking handle is above horizontal. I just went and checked it, mine locks securely at 10:00 and 2:00, more or less, and is free between 11:00 and 1:00. My old VL300 was the same way. Locking is sure and tight, free play feels perfect and without slop. In your photo, yours is pointing somewhere around 4:30. How's the adjustment nut and clamp plate doing under the bed, does it need to be tightened some? Would that help keep the handle from hitting the bed?

@robo hippy and other VL240 owners, where are your banjo lock handle oriented? See our photos above a few messages.
 
My lathe #2 in life was a Jet 1014 mini, circa 1998. Even with a very nice slip fit of the rest into the banjo, its toolrest would sometimes slip in the banjo, the rest lock handle not able to pinch it hard without really reefing on the handle. I hit the hardware store and bought a brass rod the diameter of the bolt thread, and cut a small piece, maybe 1/8+ or so, and finagled it loose between the end of the bolt and the tool rest post. After a few turning sessions it seemed to mash itself into place that when I was very careful, the rest could be removed (for sanding, etc.) and the little brass slug stayed in place. It worked well, the tool rest no longer would slide down on its own.

I may have also roughed up the surface of the rest post, to help the brass, and maybe even the cast iron banjo, gain a little more tooth on the post. Maybe I used a file for just a couple strokes on the post, not enough to remove a detrimental amount of steel, but just enough to break the smooth surface of the post.
 
My General had the same tool post lock as your Vicmarc. It's called a Kipp handle and I couldn't stand it. If I didn't crank down hard the tool rest would slip. Plus it interfered with my gouge when I lowered the handle. Investigation showed my handle used a 1/2-13 thread. The replacement I made uses a 5/8-24 thread which gives me a tighter grip.
IMG_E7478.JPG
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Now for the magic, that's just a common bolt. I step drilled through the center of the bolt, added a pin with a spring, and now it acts just like the original except not out near as far.
IMG_E7479.JPG
 
Steve Tiedman said:
@Odie, in my previous message #189 above, then yours next, comparing the two banjos, the swing of my banjo locking handle is above horizontal. I just went and checked it, mine locks securely at 10:00 and 2:00, more or less, and is free between 11:00 and 1:00. My old VL300 was the same way. Locking is sure and tight, free play feels perfect and without slop. In your photo, yours is pointing somewhere around 4:30. How's the adjustment nut and clamp plate doing under the bed, does it need to be tightened some? Would that help keep the handle from hitting the bed?

@robo hippy and other VL240 owners, where are your banjo lock handle oriented? See our photos above a few messages.
Click to expand...

Steve.......I haven't adjusted my banjo locking handle. This is the way it was adjusted from the factory. I'm not sure I want to adjust it yet.....but, give it some time and experience.....that may change! :)

=o=
 
I may be wrong, but my theory is that when you really reef hard on steel threads against the much softer cast iron threads, they can become distorted. When this happens, then the union between the two metals is forever changed. Once that change takes place, the holding power between the two metals is likewise forever reduced......and the handle will slip.

=o=
 
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