That's what the self-taught shadetree engineer in my mind thinks as well.
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After 33 years with my Woodfast, a Vicmarc VL240 is now on the way!
- Thread starter Odie
- Start date
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
The lighting consists of two Super Nova lamps, one Quasar lamp, and an Amazon LED work lamp.
Seriously......I've never had so much light while turning. I think these lamps will allow me to identify turning blemishes more easily than ever!
Kicking and screaming, I'm slowly becoming a 21st century turner!
=o=
Seriously......I've never had so much light while turning. I think these lamps will allow me to identify turning blemishes more easily than ever!
Kicking and screaming, I'm slowly becoming a 21st century turner!
=o=
I think these lamps will allow me to identify turning blemishes more easily than ever!
A comment about seeing blemishes, in case you are interested.
I use just one Supernova lamp, works well for detecting scratches and certain other blemishes. My procedure:
- Turn off or temporarily aim the other lamps away from the front surface of the piece.
- I aim the remaining Supernova lamp so the light makes a glancing angle on the upper front of the piece.
- I apply a generous coat of naphtha to the wood with a paper towel. Naphtha leaves no residue, drys very quickly, and doesn't affect any finish.
- When first applied, the wet naphtha nicely shows the color and figure of the wood. However, it starts to dry quickly.
- As the naphtha starts to dry, it stays a little longer in any scratches or small tearout. During that final drying stage I quickly turn the wood by hand and examine what I can before it dries completely.
- To examine the entire piece might take several applications. I keep a plastic squeeze bottle with naphtha on a shallow shelf above the lathe.
The fingers can detect even gentle divots and humps in the bottom of a bowl or platter. Since these are horribly obvious once finish is applied I also feel for them and remove them quickly with hand scrapers when finish turning. Humps are trivial with hand scrapers. Removing deeper divots may take another pass with a sharp gouge or NRS, then the magical hand scrapers easily make the bottoms perfect.
I've had turners tilt finished pieces back and forth in the light and express surprise at no visible defects. We see far too many of these in many pieces at club show_&_tell and even in the work of professionals at symposiums. I won't name names.
JKJ
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Besides the advantages noted previously concerning moving one's physical location and also moving the entire setup back and forth to opposite sides of the lathe, the pivoting headstock has another advantage that hasn't been considered. The disadvantage of a sliding headstock is that a sliding headstock will eventually gum up between the sliding surfaces. Unless the operator meticulously cleans those surfaces each and every time he slides the headstock, he'll drag dust inbetween those surfaces. Eventually, the buildup of sludge will interfere with a smoothly sliding headstock. This might not be much of a problem to the occasional turner....but, for those of us who are turning daily, it would be... 
^^^^The pivoting headstock mating surfaces are not exposed to external contamination and therefore is plagued by none of this.^^^^
=o=
^^^^The pivoting headstock mating surfaces are not exposed to external contamination and therefore is plagued by none of this.^^^^
=o=
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Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
If I had a wish for the VL240 lathe, it would be for Vicmarc to make a run on banjos that are made specifically for 1" tool posts, and to secure the tool posts with a better clamping action......such as that which the Robust banjos have.
I'd buy that revised banjo immediately, and would then believe this lathe to be among the best in it's class. Without some solution to the banjo problems, the VL240 falls short of the glowing positive review I'd like to give it otherwise.
Well......I can always wish anyway!
=o=
I'd buy that revised banjo immediately, and would then believe this lathe to be among the best in it's class. Without some solution to the banjo problems, the VL240 falls short of the glowing positive review I'd like to give it otherwise.
Well......I can always wish anyway!
=o=
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Odie, I have never ever had a problem with “sludge” sliding my headstock (Robust 6 years). I do keep my ways waxed with Johnson paste wax almost daily and every time I slide the headstock. The tailstock is moved constantly and it doesn’t build up either. I realize the rotating headstock works for you, but it is not an advantage vs a sliding headstock. Also I don’t keep anything on the lathe. I have a turnaround on wheels where I keep a lot of my “stuff” and another rack with other tools. It does take more effort to slide the headstock, but I don’t see any advantage as far as turning with a rotating headstock. Just a different method.
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Well, having worked with other machinery for the last 20 years of my working life, I can say that with regular preventative maintenance, there shouldn't be any problems with deposits on the sliding mating surfaces.....so, someone like you should have no issues. You know that it will present itself as an obstacle to some percentage of less conscientious turners who won't bother to have any preventative maintenance schedule...
=o=
2002 VL200, Craft Supplies USA purchase. 1" tool rest. My 2001 VL300 from CS was the same 1". I wonder if they were made 1" for CS?If I had a wish for the VL240 lathe, it would be for Vicmarc to make a run on banjos that are made specifically for 1" tool posts, and to secure the tool posts with a better clamping action......such as that which the Robust banjos have.
I'd buy that revised banjo immediately, and would then believe this lathe to be among the best in it's class. Without some solution to the banjo problems, the VL240 falls short of the glowing positive review I'd like to give it otherwise.
Well......I can always wish anyway!
=o=
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Hard to say there Steve...
The thought occurred to me that there isn't a Vicmarc VL240 banjo made for 1" tool posts, because the supplied accessory tool rest is 30mm.....?
You know.....even if they did offer a 1" tool post compatible banjo, I still might not be interested if something isn't done about improving the tool rest lockdown mechanism.
=o=
Hello, any big problems with this lathe in all those years? One for sale in my area, which looks same as yours.. thank you
Manny, I'll not speak for Odie, but I've known 2 turners with the ol' Australian-built Woodfast lathes and they were rock solid, dependable, heavy duty cast iron machines. Even if the headstock bearings are past their prime, the internet shows how to replace them.
Odie can confirm, but if I recall, those lathes had tailstocks that were not self-ejecting of morse taper centers, instead just using a knockout bar like we use on headstocks. No biggie at all, wouldn't stop me from buying one in overall good shape.
I've upsized to 3/8" steel knockout bars on my lathes, if the factory bar was smaller. A 3/8" stick of hardware store bar, left several inches longer than the stocker, with a wood knob on the end, drives out tapered fitting lickity-split.
Odie can confirm, but if I recall, those lathes had tailstocks that were not self-ejecting of morse taper centers, instead just using a knockout bar like we use on headstocks. No biggie at all, wouldn't stop me from buying one in overall good shape.
I've upsized to 3/8" steel knockout bars on my lathes, if the factory bar was smaller. A 3/8" stick of hardware store bar, left several inches longer than the stocker, with a wood knob on the end, drives out tapered fitting lickity-split.
Thank you for your feedback.. If I may ask, what lathes do you have?
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Yep, there's not much that can go wrong with the original Woodfast lathe. I still consider it a great lathe, and beginners on up to experienced turners will appreciate an all cast iron lathe from the old school of engineering and casting iron.....
=o=
would you share your thoughts on why you chose this lathe over a Robust or Oneway or Powermatic? Thanks
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Howdy Manny.....
Most of the regulars here already know this, but I've been saying I wanted a rotating headstock lathe for the past few years now.
I consider the Robust, Oneway and Powermatic lathes to be top of the line for us woodturners......but, they do not have that one single feature I adamantly wanted in a lathe.....a pivoting headstock.
=o=
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
I was out in the shop today, inspecting the VL240 casting, and must say that I'm very impressed with the cast iron quality, motor, controller, electronics, tapered roller bearings, etc. There was a lot of thinking involved in putting this lathe together.
If it weren't for the problems that I perceive with the banjo......I really would give this VL240 lathe a glowing positive review after all!
=o=
Odie, I bought that Woodfast lathe in the early 90s, when it was the best lathe that Craft Supplies was selling. I had it for over 10 years and it never let me down.Yep, there's not much that can go wrong with the original Woodfast lathe. I still consider it a great lathe, and beginners on up to experienced turners will appreciate an all cast iron lathe from the old school of engineering and casting iron.....
=o=
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Yeah, I know.......I had my Woodfast lathe for 33 years.
It really is a wonderful lathe for sure...
=o=
Sorry, I missed your message. Since 2001 to today, I've run with Woodfast's country cousin, Vicmarc lathes. The two brands were more similar overall than different, which is why I'd have no issue saying yes to the Australian-built Woodfast as a used lathe purchase today.
I currently have the middle-range Vicmarc VL200 shortbed (16" x 16" capacity) that I bought from a friend (a fella 30 years my senior) about 15 years ago when he retired his home workshop in his later years. At that time, I also had a VL300 shortbed with bed extension (my first Vicmarc, making the bed about 5' long), and the VL100 mini lathe. I sold the VL100 to make room for the 200. (A couple years ago I tracked down the VL100 and inquired about buying it back. That request was met with a "heck no!" response. Figured as much.)
Wanting long bed capacity again, in early 2024 I bought a Oneway 1224 with bed extension, getting me to about 44" of bed length. So, those are my current lathes, a Vicmarc VL200 shortbed, and a Oneway 1224 with extension.
@Odie , I’m a bit curious about something. Seems like all the lathes on the market use plain roller bearings except for Vicmark and Oneway. Oneway uses angular contact bearings and Vicmark uses tapered rollers. Properly adjusted tapered roller bearings should be the stiffest bearing all else being equal. They are also much better at handling pressure from tail stock.
Do you notice this increase in stiffness while turning? Less chatter maybe? Seems smoother? Maybe the bearing type makes no difference at all. Just curious
Do you notice this increase in stiffness while turning? Less chatter maybe? Seems smoother? Maybe the bearing type makes no difference at all. Just curious
Mike, if I may jump in (my Vicmarc lineage shown right above your message)-
An increase in stiffness while turning, I've never thought of, nor noticed that, neither while the machine is under power nor power shut off, so I'll say no. Maybe another way of asking- do the tapered bearings offer more resistance to movement by nature of the rod-style bearing and all the race contact it makes vs. a ball bearing? Well, maybe, but that would be the nature of that large bearing diameter they spec and the amount of bearing component contact surface in that style of bearing. Is the spindle hard to turn by hand? No, even without the belt under tension, it is nice and smooth and easy to turn, but you get the feeling that you are moving heavy duty components, relatively speaking. And the spindle assembly makes adjustments possible (tighten to near binding, then back off), although adjusting the bearing race compression is nothing I've ever had to do. Vicmarc has videos available showing how to overhaul their headstocks, old car gearheads will enjoy watching. It is about the same as the old style servicable double tapered bearing assemblies on the non-drive stub axles of automobiles, pre-modular bearing assembly era (back when mechanics re-packed the grease in those bearings by hand).
I've never noticed chatter originating from the headstock of any lathe I've owned (Sears Craftsman mid-1990s, Jet mini late-90s, 3 Vicmarcs since 2001, and now a Oneway), well, the Craftsman maybe... piece o' crap lathe.
Yes, all 3 of my Vicmarcs had/have headstock bearings that are buttery smooth. Well, maybe that butter is "room temperature, not melted" for stiffness with the full size VL200/300 (exact same spindle assemblies), but still buttery smooth, and freely rotating. None of this means anything to the 1.5hp DC motors I've driven the lathes with. In short, the stoutness of the bearings is not a detriment to the rotation of the spindle nor the motor driving it.
Great questions!
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@Steve Tiedman , I was not referring to rotational stiffness. I’m talking about less flexing. For example, if I chuck up a 3” diameter pepper mill blank and try to face off the end before drilling, I normally get some chatter. Much more on my Jet 1221 than my PM3520, so it’s not just the wood flexing. Curious if the Vicmark would be even better.
Oh, okay, sorry. Well, no, in retrospect I would not attribute any end grain cut chatter to flex of any component of the Vic headstock casting, spindle, nor bearings. And like you said above, the tapered bearings should be a limiting factor in flex/chatter, too. And the Vicmarc 120 chuck I use with it creates quite a strong anchor point as well.
But I do know of the chatter you refer to, I've experienced it myself on any of the lathes. I've always blamed that on some combination of the length and flex of the wood (particularly if the blank is held by a chuck only without tailstock support) and edge quality of the tool. A sharp edge, a light cut, and tailstock support (up until the tailstock center interferes) as a last resort typically resolves that kind of end grain chatter. The longer the spindle stock held in any chuck without (and even with) tailstock support, the more it can flex in cutting.
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Thanks to @Steve Tiedman for your analysis.
Mike........ Maybe it's too early to really tell because I believe all bearings have some amount of break-in. These are the same kind of bearings used on the front wheels of your car......so, they have to be tough to stand up to that kind of duty.
However, I do notice some additional rotational stiffness....more so than with the old Woodfast lathe. (I haven't tested this without the motor resistance though.) Mike....I realize this isn't what you were talking about, but I feel it's notable, nonetheless.
One very curious aspect is the old Woodfast had a no-load peak rpm whilst maintaining vibration free, is about 800rpm. What's curious here is the new Vicmarc VL240 begins to show vibration at around 600rpm. Because I am meticulous about maintaining an extremely sharp edge, this doesn't present any issues.
=o=
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To some extent, yes.Thanks to @Steve Tiedman for your analysis.
Mike........ Maybe it's too early to really tell because I believe all bearings have some amount of break-in. These are the same kind of bearings used on the front wheels of your car......so, they have to be tough to stand up to that kind of duty.
However, I do notice some additional rotational stiffness....more so than with the old Woodfast lathe. (I haven't tested this without the motor resistance though.) Mike....I realize this isn't what you were talking about, but I feel it's notable, nonetheless.
One very curious aspect is the old Woodfast had a no-load peak rpm whilst maintaining vibration free, is about 800rpm. What's curious here is the new Vicmarc VL240 begins to show vibration at around 600rpm. Because I am meticulous about maintaining an extremely sharp edge, this doesn't present any issues.
=o=
Yes, some types of bearings have a break-in period, especially high-precision ones like those in skateboarding or yo-yos, which may perform better after a few minutes or an hour of use to distribute lubricant and smooth out surfaces. However, other types, such as automotive and industrial wheel bearings, are designed to function correctly out of the box without a break-in period because they operate on a pressurized oil film rather than direct metal-to-metal contact. Many wheel bearings, especially tapered roller bearings, are very strong with polished surfaces and rely on proper lubrication rather than a break-in period to perform well. Vicmarc lathes use high-quality "taper roller spindle bearings" to ensure spindle stability, rigidity, and longevity, a key feature of their well-regarded Australian-made wood lathes. If you look up the load specs on taper bearings, you will be surprised and very happy.
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Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
The bottom flange of the headstock interferes with positioning of the Oneway Bowl Steady. You can see here in the photo. Because of that, I cut away some of the base to adapt it. This allows better positioning of the banjo. It might need more shaping, but I'll need more time in the saddle with this VL240 to know for sure.
The hip pad on the left had to be extended out some for use with the headstock swiveled. The hip pad on the right might not ever be needed again!
I'm beginning to realize that the headstock may never need to be swiveled more than about 15°....but, it's definitely a back saver. I still haven't resorted to using my back brace......hallelujah!
I'm still feeling really good about this new lathe....that rotating headstock is exactly what I needed!
I may end up purchasing another banjo at some point....
=o=
The hip pad on the left had to be extended out some for use with the headstock swiveled. The hip pad on the right might not ever be needed again!
I'm beginning to realize that the headstock may never need to be swiveled more than about 15°....but, it's definitely a back saver. I still haven't resorted to using my back brace......hallelujah!
I'm still feeling really good about this new lathe....that rotating headstock is exactly what I needed!
I may end up purchasing another banjo at some point....
=o=
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Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
"I may"......and, then again.......I may not!
Even though I don't like that Vicmarc chose to use a grub screw to secure the tool rest post, I'll have to admit that so far, I've had exactly zero problems with it. It stays tight.
My old Woodfast banjo has the same grub screw method of securing the tool rest post, and I had problems with it working loose while turning. I can remember being frustrated and at some point, used a cheater bar to make it stay tight. The real problem with this, is that the steel screw threads are much harder than the soft threads of the cast iron banjo. Once the soft cast iron threads are deformed from overtightening, you will never get a sufficient tight hold again.
All my problems with the Woodfast banjo were gone, when I replaced it with the Robust Sweet 16 dogleg banjo.
Now that I am armed with this knowledge, it's very possible that this Vicmarc banjo will always serve me well......as long as I never overtighten it.
=o=
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Odie, the tool rest post on my Powermatic 3520A has started to loosen at times, after only 14 years of my use, preceded by 10 years of the former owner's. Since Vicmarc's banjo is probably better made than mine, you should be OK with that banjo til at least 2048. By then, you'll be famous and the lathe manufacturers will be flocking to your shop to get your help, and you'll be selling the Kevin Odie Signature Banjo. Along with the Signature Hip Rest, Signature Bowl Steady, and Signature Abrasive Dispenser."I may"......and, then again.......I may not!
Even though I don't like that Vicmarc chose to use a grub screw to secure the tool rest post, I'll have to admit that so far, I've had exactly zero problems with it. It stays tight.
My old Woodfast banjo has the same grub screw method of securing the tool rest post, and I had problems with it working loose while turning. I can remember being frustrated and at some point, used a cheater bar to make it stay tight. The real problem with this, is that the steel screw threads are much harder than the soft threads of the cast iron banjo. Once the soft cast iron threads are deformed from overtightening, you will never get a sufficient tight hold again.
All my problems with the Woodfast banjo were gone, when I replaced it with the Robust Sweet 16 dogleg banjo.
Now that I am armed with this knowledge, it's very possible that this Vicmarc banjo will always serve me well......as long as I never overtighten it.
=o=
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Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Yep.....it's entirely possible this Vicmarc banjo will last me the rest of my life.....and without having the problems I've experienced with the Woodfast banjo. I can report that this Vicmarc banjo is made with a very heavy duty casting. That grub screw method is the one and only thing that bothers me.
"Pie in the sky"......I have no business interest in my turning methods. I just want to keep doing what I do for as long as I can do it!
.....and, at 76 years old, I can only hope to the high heavens that I can keep doing this for another 20 years......fingers crossed! =o=
Are the blasted grub screw thing , got around that with these.
But just make sure you that you get the die cast ones, not the plastic. There are some available in steel and they by far are the best. Oh another thing, many lathes have only one position for the grub screw. [ I dont know whats on the 240 lathes ] The lever arm will at some point get in the way, so I drill additional tapped holes around the tool post to get around this issue. If you are not sure what I am on about, I can post a couple of images of mine.
But just make sure you that you get the die cast ones, not the plastic. There are some available in steel and they by far are the best. Oh another thing, many lathes have only one position for the grub screw. [ I dont know whats on the 240 lathes ] The lever arm will at some point get in the way, so I drill additional tapped holes around the tool post to get around this issue. If you are not sure what I am on about, I can post a couple of images of mine.
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Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Thanks hughie......yes, I think I know exactly what you mean. At some point I may drill and tap some additional holes around the circumference of the banjo tower. In the mean time, I've fashioned a short bolt to fit in the existing hole. The bolt sticks out much less than the handle of the locking grub screw. I call it a grub screw, but that may be confusing some as to what I'm talking about. (See post #182 on page 5 of this thread to view some pics of this alternate method of securing the tool rest.)
The original tightening grub screw supplied with the lathe is similar to those you show in your post above.....it has a positionable handle. I could see a definite problem with the location of the threaded hole and the locking handle in some situations......so, I instinctually knew this was going to be a problem that would eventually need to be dealt with.
=o=
Yeah I wanted to keep the lever action to avoid having another tool to adjust anything, hence the three position holes. So far its worked out well, although I have come up with a cam lock on a rotating collar to try and get around the original problem and no tooling
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Did several modifications to the magnetic control box today.
First, you will see that I've added a bigger stop button. This will be more suitable for an emergency stop, as well as hitting it while looking somewhere else.....which I've been known to do quite often. My "muscle memory" is pretty good for repetitious actions like this, so this is a great help to me.
You will also notice that the control box is rotated 90°. Having the power cord exiting to the right is much better for keeping it out of the way than it would be facing straight down.
I've also added some colored dots around the circumference of the speed dial. This gives me an approximate rpm reading that can be of help finding a particular speed much faster than the supplied rpm readout in the Vicmarc headstock. The rpm readout in the headstock is very slow to register the rpms. this means I can now keep moving and no need to pause for the rpm indicator to register the final correct rpm.
You will also notice some magnets placed around the control box.....these hold the control box in one fixed position. Unfortunately, Vicmarc chose to use a single magnet on the backside of the control box. Because of that it's a bit unstable and freely rotates radially.....won't stay put. The magnets fix that.
=o=
First, you will see that I've added a bigger stop button. This will be more suitable for an emergency stop, as well as hitting it while looking somewhere else.....which I've been known to do quite often. My "muscle memory" is pretty good for repetitious actions like this, so this is a great help to me.
You will also notice that the control box is rotated 90°. Having the power cord exiting to the right is much better for keeping it out of the way than it would be facing straight down.
I've also added some colored dots around the circumference of the speed dial. This gives me an approximate rpm reading that can be of help finding a particular speed much faster than the supplied rpm readout in the Vicmarc headstock. The rpm readout in the headstock is very slow to register the rpms. this means I can now keep moving and no need to pause for the rpm indicator to register the final correct rpm.
You will also notice some magnets placed around the control box.....these hold the control box in one fixed position. Unfortunately, Vicmarc chose to use a single magnet on the backside of the control box. Because of that it's a bit unstable and freely rotates radially.....won't stay put. The magnets fix that.
=o=
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Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
I replaced the pad on the smaller hip rest with a bigger diameter pad. I thought I'd never use this pad again, but the new pad is just big enough to be useful under certain circumstances.....like shaping the rim details.
=o=-
=o=-
Odie. I think you should paint it Woodfast green
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
I've decided to use the same method of returning to the same rpm that I was using on the Woodfast lathe. It's faster than the electronic readout Vicmarc used, and you don't have to remember what rpm it was. ("Was that 575rpm....or 625rpm".....is no longer a question!
There are two magnets that accomplish this. One is a rare earth magnet that's glued to the variable rheostat knob, and the other is a positionable magnet with a paint dot that attaches to it. When I find the best vibration free rpm, the positionable magnet is adjusted accordingly. When I "start, stop, start, stop, start, stop" over a period of time, and each time come back to the exact same rpm needed.....all without having to remember what it was!
=o=
There are two magnets that accomplish this. One is a rare earth magnet that's glued to the variable rheostat knob, and the other is a positionable magnet with a paint dot that attaches to it. When I find the best vibration free rpm, the positionable magnet is adjusted accordingly. When I "start, stop, start, stop, start, stop" over a period of time, and each time come back to the exact same rpm needed.....all without having to remember what it was!
=o=