Sharpening anxiety

[Gene Gabriel]

I don’t know why, but I was nervous about sharpening my bowl gouge. I’m new to turning and my bowl gouge wasn’t performing well, it was dull. I do realize that any type of chisel rarely comes from the factory “ready to use” out of the box. I also didn’t want to “screw up” a brand new tool. What a difference a sharp tool makes. As it does in any setting. Still a learning process, but getting better.

 

[Jon Rista]

Sharpen often. All the time. The more you work at it the easier it gets, the faster it will get, and you'll get that edge really cutting clean. I don't know what you are using to sharpen, but I'd pick up a CBN wheel if you don't have one yet. I recently switched to a 600 grit from Woodturners Wonders that a friend offered me, and it has been wonderful. I was using a 350 grit, but something about this particular 600 grit from WW, it sharpens better, faster, and the edge is amazing. Cleanest cuts I've achieved so far.

FWIW, depending on what you are turning, you may need to sharpen more than once while you are turning it. If I'm turning anything larger than a 6x6x3 bowl blank, I'll usually sharpen more than once on both outside and inside. IMO, the moment you start feeling like instead of the gouge just gliding through the wood, and you are then having to use some force to "force" the gouge through the wood, even if its just a little...sharpen again. Once you start having to push the tool through the wood, then the risk of tearout increases, IME.

Sharpening actually starts going really fast, and I'll sharpen 4-5 times maybe more depending on the size of the blank, per side, and each sharpening attempt only takes maybe 30 seconds from flipping the grinder on, setting up my jig, then whipping through a few back and forth swings with the gouge, to flipping the grinder off again and getting back to it. Once you get used to sharpening often, you can keep that edge cutting the wood like butter and it really doesn't take long. You'll minimize tearout, and turning is just a lot easier, gets faster, when the tools just kind of moves through the wood without a lot of manual force.

A CBN wheel, though, is probably necessary for that, so if you don't have one yet, I'd pick one up. Also, I'd really check out the Woodturners Wonders wheels. The 600 grit I have is second hand, but its actually still grinding much better than my 350 grit wheel. I don't know what kind of differences there might be between different brands of CBN wheels, but this WW 600 grit wheel is really quite phenomenal. You can also readily see the wheel removing the metal from the edge, which makes it very easy to shape the edge of the gouge EXACTLY how you want it. I also have a 180 grit wheel that I use for reshaping or initially shaping tools, but generally speaking the wheel I use most is the 600 grit.

 

[hughie]

Yup all good advice, and if you have a sharpening jig it will give you good results from the get go. Remember anxiety or fear of an event exists only in the future, you are in control,

 

[John K Jordan]

I don’t know why, but I was nervous about sharpening my bowl gouge. I’m new to turning and my bowl gouge wasn’t performing well, it was dull. I do realize that any type of chisel rarely comes from the factory “ready to use” out of the box. I also didn’t want to “screw up” a brand new tool. What a difference a sharp tool makes. As it does in any setting. Still a learning process, but getting better.

This reminds me of what someone told me when I started turning almost 25 years ago - "If you can't sharpen, you can't turn!" At first, I didn't know how to sharpen so I paid someone at the local Woodcraft store $6 each time to sharpen a bowl gouge. It wasn't long before I decided I could do as well as he could. I do collect free or cheap old tools to regrind or give away so I had plenty to practice on.

Unless you learn to sharpen by hand, the key to a good edge is a good jig. I use two: I sharpen spindle gouges on a 1200 grit Tormek wheel with their gouge jig. I sharpen bowl gouges on a 600 CBN wheel with the Oneway Wolverine with their Varigrind jig. (NOT the Varigrind II. I have words about that one) I keep both jigs preset for the grinds I've decided I prefer so I don't have to adjust them. For more than one grind I'd get another jig.

There are a zillion "favorite" grinds out there and every mfgr (and every "pro" turner/demonstrator) uses one. The thing I discovered is the exact grind doesn't matter much. There are subtle variations that matter in some cases to some people. But when starting out, just go with some grind, learn to sharpen it, and learn to use it. The tool control, arm/hand/leg movement and sharp, sharp, sharp edge is far more important than the exact grind. You can adapt to almost any grind as long as the tool is sharp. In my opinion, of course.

If you don't have a sharpening system, there are lots of options but many, many people use the Wolverine. I use the platform and mini platform for all skews, parting tools, bedan, and such, and the Varigrind for all sizes of bowl gouges. Some mfgrs, like Thompson, provide recommended settings for the Varigrind. Basically, set the angle on the jig, adjust the amount of the gouge that sticks out the front, adjust the support bar so the bevel angle is close to the existing bevel, and grind away. Much of the shape you get (at the nose, the wings) depends on how much pressure and time used at different places on the bevel.
A sharp tool with some reasonable profile far beats a less sharp tool with any profile, original mfgr or not.

I mount the bench grinder and the Wolverine base to a square of 3/4" plywood so I can move it if needed. Note that some bench grinder castings may need some grinding on the bottom before they will sit flat on the plywood or bench. 1/2hp grinders are fine for 8" aluminum CBN wheels. I did use conventional grinding wheels for years but far prefer CBN now.

If you are a member of a club, ask and you might well find someone willing to spend some time with you on sharpening. Some clubs have a formal mentorship program. Some have willing and experienced members. I've had a number of people come to my shop for sharpening as well as turning help. (One guy brought a gouge that looked like it was sharpened by holding it out the door against the pavement on the ride over!! )

Another option, until you get comfortable with sharpening, and depending on what you like to turn, may be to get one of the Hunter carbide tools. These have extremely sharp round cutters that can be used as a gouge or as a scraper. You replace the cutter instead of sharpening. The first one I use for a long time, can't remember, maybe a year or more, before replacing it. (It is advised to rotate the cutter a bit ever day or so to even out the wear.) I prefer one in particular, the small Hunter Hercules for turning at least part of almost every bowl/platter/box I make and on a lot of spindles as well. I used it on almost all of the turning, rough and final, of a wand I just submitted for the June challengem made of very hard and dense African Blackwood. It cut like butter and left an almost polished surface. I keep various Hunter tools but the small Hercules is my go-to. (I do also use various spindle and bowl gouges as appropriate or depending on how I feel at the moment.) John Lucas has some videos on using Hunter tools.

JKJ

 

[Alan Weinberg]

Learning to sharpen and doing it often would be the first and most important thing I’d tell someone asking woodturning advice.

 

[Jon Rista]

Another option, until you get comfortable with sharpening, and depending on what you like to turn, may be to get one of the Hunter carbide tools. These have extremely sharp round cutters that can be used as a gouge or as a scraper. You replace the cutter instead of sharpening. The first one I use for a long time, can't remember, maybe a year or more, before replacing it. (It is advised to rotate the cutter a bit ever day or so to even out the wear.) I prefer one in particular, the small Hunter Hercules for turning at least part of almost every bowl/platter/box I make and on a lot of spindles as well. I used it on almost all of the turning, rough and final, of a wand I just submitted for the June challengem made of very hard and dense African Blackwood. It cut like butter and left an almost polished surface. I keep various Hunter tools but the small Hercules is my go-to. (I do also use various spindle and bowl gouges as appropriate or depending on how I feel at the moment.) John Lucas has some videos on using Hunter tools.

JKJ

Only thought here is...if you REALLY want to learn how to sharpen, having a fallback option that gets you out of the NECESSITY of sharpening, might hamper progress.

I would stick with the gouge, and not get any carbide tipped tools, as a way of forcing the issue: You HAVE to sharpen, there is no way around it, so do it, learn it, learn it well, and do it often.

 

[Doug Freeman]

One of the reasons I recommend “high value” tools (like Benjamin’s Best). A lot less anxiety putting a $30 tool on the grinder vs a $100 tool.

Agree that carbide tools are not an answer - they work differently (even the cupped cutters) and inhibit learning how to use hss tools.

Just accept that a tool or 2 may have to be used up learning how to grind. Go slow and easy, very light, almost no, pressure against the wheel. Just like using a tool, the “feel” for sharpening is developed by doing it - again and again and again…

 

[hockenbery]

Still a learning process, but getting better.

When I teach sharpening I have the student practice the movement with the wheel off.
Then I turn on the grinder and after it comes up to speed I turn it off and have them sharpen the tool.
This lowers the intimidation level, keeps them from pushing too hard against the wheel ( lot of redos on this), nothing real bad ever happened with a student but I always thought the wheel would stop prior to severe injury.
When they’ve got a nice edge with the power off I have them do a final sharpening with the power on.

This is a bit hard to do on your own moving the hand from the switch to sharpening position but you can give it a go.

 

[John K Jordan]

When I teach sharpening I have the student practice the movement with the wheel off.
Then I turn on the grinder and after it comes up to speed I turn it off and have them sharpen the tool.
This lowers the intimidation level, keeps them from pushing too hard against the wheel ( lot of redos on this), nothing real bad ever happened with a student but I always thought the wheel would stop prior to severe injury.
When they’ve got a nice edge with the power off I have them do a final sharpening with the power on.

This is a bit hard to do on your own moving the hand from the switch to sharpening position but you can give it a go.

I like your brilliant way of teaching sharpening. A variable-speed bench grinder would be ideal but the minimum speed of some I've looked at was 2000 rpm. Turning on then off is a great idea but now I'm thinking of how to drive the wheel at a continuous low speed at first, maybe a small, low-torque variable speed motor with a small rubber roller - I suspect a hand-held electric drill with a sanding sleeve mandrel would work . Thanks for the idea.

I do a similar thing when teaching the skew. Start with a smoothly rounded cylinder on the lathe. With the lathe turned off let them practice the tool presentation against the wood for planing cuts. Then I turn the lathe by hand and let them "feel" for the edge until they can make clean shavings, me watching, advising, correcting. Once they can make clean shavings while moving the tool down the cylinder with me turning the lathe by hand, I stop, smooth the cylinder again so they start with a clean slate, put the belt on the low speed then turn the lathe on very slow while they practice the cuts. Then gradually sneak the speed up until it's at full speed. As you said with sharpening, this is a great confidence builder for the skew. (then we go to spindle gouge and learn to make coves)

I do this for beginners who have never seen a lathe and old-timers who had developed a fear of the skew.
I've never once had someone get a catch. Some have told me later the skew was their favorite tool.

Can't wait to try the slow-speed sharpening!

JKJ

 

[hockenbery]

do a similar thing when teaching the skew. Start with a smoothly rounded cylinder on the lathe. With the lathe turned off let them practice the tool presentation against the wood for planing cuts

With bowls I show some things with the lathe off like rolling the gouge into some cuts.
With students If they need better foot position or body movement I have then practice curs with the lathe off until the get there feet set nicely and get a smoother body movement.

 

[John K Jordan]

With bowls I show some things with the lathe off like rolling the gouge into some cuts.
With students If they need better foot position or body movement I have then practice curs with the lathe off until the get there feet set nicely and get a smoother body movement.

Excellent! We apparently work similarly with those too. And conventional scrapers, NRS, shear scraping with gouges, etc.

I've had some, usually older people with some turning experience, who were horrible with their feet and lets. Some don't "get it" even with repeated reminders. Teens are so quick to catch on. When starting a planing cut with the skew I have people move over and position feet and legs and skew comfortably at what will be the end of the cut, then bend the knees and shift position to the beginning of the cut and start. Helps avoid the dreaded "swing the skew with the arms tendency.

For coves, I usually mount a blank, turn a couple of coves (shallow and deep) with a spindle gouge while they watch, explain the three coordinated motions needed. Then go back over that cove and show the motions slowly, then let them practice motions on my cove with the lathe off. All have said coves were more difficult than skew planing cuts because of the coordinated tool motions needed. Same with beads. I like the way Raffan teaches spindle turning and the practice advice in his books.

To help visualize, I made an oversized cylinder and a big wooden skew model skew. The cylinder is marked with a useful edge angle and I cut a deep v-groove near one end. They can practice holding the model skew in the right position before going to the real skew.

For deep v-grooves and facing cuts, the angle and clearance, of course, are critical. The oversized model makes it easier for people to see and understand what is needed to banish the dreaded catch. This sets nicely on an unpowered Jet mini on the bench.

I saw where someone fashioned a similar oversized spindle gouge model from a big wood dowel. I want to make one of those.



I have no idea how to teach someone who turns while seated. Seems like a huge set of obstacles to conquer.

JKJ

 

[hockenbery]

have no idea how to teach someone who turns while seated. Seems like a huge set of obstacles to conquer.

I’ve just taught a few and I always made it a collaborative effort. I’d show them where the best path for the tool would be then ask them how can you hold it and move it so the tool edge follows that path. They’d work it out to a point that looked effective then they try it.

3 good local turners I know who turned chair bound all had different effect techniques.
One guy in a wheel chair positioned the chair and locked it then used the chair as brace to turn his upper body through the cut.
Another guy in a wheel chair had some use of his legs. He used his feet to rotate the chair as he cut.
A third guy turned from a motorized scooter he liked the lathe at eye level and turned only with carbides. He used the tools level so the handle was about shoulder level reminded me of someone throwing darts. Just sort of poke at the wood he wanted to take off. He also used about a dozen different carbide tools to get shapes and smoothness. He won a best in show at the Florida state fairs.

older people

As great generalization working with older people and kids has a lot in common. They often lack range of motion and hand strength.
Many can’t turn a box by pressure fitting the lid. If they get it on they can’t get it off.
Jimmy Clewes’s and David Ellsworth were excellent at adapting for older people. I had lengthy conversation with both about how to work with older individuals in classes they were teaching in my shop.
I never got close to their level.

 

[Tom Gall]

The thing I discovered is the exact grind doesn't matter much. There are subtle variations that matter in some cases to some people. But when starting out, just go with some grind, learn to sharpen it, and learn to use it. The tool control, arm/hand/leg movement and sharp, sharp, sharp edge is far more important than the exact grind. You can adapt to almost any grind as long as the tool is sharp. In my opinion, of course.

This is a most important statement to remember. Sharp edge meets wood ... it cuts! After all, the wood doesn't know (or care) what kind of tool, bevel angle, sharpening method, etc., we are using. It could be a hatchet, a shovel, or whatever. We only use different types of tools and bevel grinds for better and/or easier access to achieve the results we want (i.e., bowls, spindles, etc.). Thank you Del Stubbs.

 

[Gene Gabriel]

All great tips. Thank you. I have been using a combination of traditional tools and carbide. They do react quite differently from each other (in my short turning experience). Carbide does seem to have a quicker learning curve. I wouldn’t rough out a bowl with one though. There is something satisfying about the swept back wing slicing right through the wood, maybe I’m a little weird. I do practice the movements of the gouge with the wheel turned off. I’ve been considering a 180 grit CBN wheel. That will be my first CBN wheel, so I have no experience with them. I will have to give more consideration to the grit I get, now seeing other recommendations on this thread. Once again, thank you all for responding and giving advice and support.

 

[Jim Reynolds]

Rich Colvin has create a wonderful resource on sharpening the Sharpening Handbook there is a section for woodturning tools, but also how to sharpen your Hori Hori knife and dozens of other tools. This is more educational than training, but I refer to it regularly.