Sharpening anxiety

[Gene Gabriel]

I don’t know why, but I was nervous about sharpening my bowl gouge. I’m new to turning and my bowl gouge wasn’t performing well, it was dull. I do realize that any type of chisel rarely comes from the factory “ready to use” out of the box. I also didn’t want to “screw up” a brand new tool. What a difference a sharp tool makes. As it does in any setting. Still a learning process, but getting better.

 

[Jon Rista]

Sharpen often. All the time. The more you work at it the easier it gets, the faster it will get, and you'll get that edge really cutting clean. I don't know what you are using to sharpen, but I'd pick up a CBN wheel if you don't have one yet. I recently switched to a 600 grit from Woodturners Wonders that a friend offered me, and it has been wonderful. I was using a 350 grit, but something about this particular 600 grit from WW, it sharpens better, faster, and the edge is amazing. Cleanest cuts I've achieved so far.

FWIW, depending on what you are turning, you may need to sharpen more than once while you are turning it. If I'm turning anything larger than a 6x6x3 bowl blank, I'll usually sharpen more than once on both outside and inside. IMO, the moment you start feeling like instead of the gouge just gliding through the wood, and you are then having to use some force to "force" the gouge through the wood, even if its just a little...sharpen again. Once you start having to push the tool through the wood, then the risk of tearout increases, IME.

Sharpening actually starts going really fast, and I'll sharpen 4-5 times maybe more depending on the size of the blank, per side, and each sharpening attempt only takes maybe 30 seconds from flipping the grinder on, setting up my jig, then whipping through a few back and forth swings with the gouge, to flipping the grinder off again and getting back to it. Once you get used to sharpening often, you can keep that edge cutting the wood like butter and it really doesn't take long. You'll minimize tearout, and turning is just a lot easier, gets faster, when the tools just kind of moves through the wood without a lot of manual force.

A CBN wheel, though, is probably necessary for that, so if you don't have one yet, I'd pick one up. Also, I'd really check out the Woodturners Wonders wheels. The 600 grit I have is second hand, but its actually still grinding much better than my 350 grit wheel. I don't know what kind of differences there might be between different brands of CBN wheels, but this WW 600 grit wheel is really quite phenomenal. You can also readily see the wheel removing the metal from the edge, which makes it very easy to shape the edge of the gouge EXACTLY how you want it. I also have a 180 grit wheel that I use for reshaping or initially shaping tools, but generally speaking the wheel I use most is the 600 grit.

 

[hughie]

Yup all good advice, and if you have a sharpening jig it will give you good results from the get go. Remember anxiety or fear of an event exists only in the future, you are in control,

 

[John K Jordan]

I don’t know why, but I was nervous about sharpening my bowl gouge. I’m new to turning and my bowl gouge wasn’t performing well, it was dull. I do realize that any type of chisel rarely comes from the factory “ready to use” out of the box. I also didn’t want to “screw up” a brand new tool. What a difference a sharp tool makes. As it does in any setting. Still a learning process, but getting better.

This reminds me of what someone told me when I started turning almost 25 years ago - "If you can't sharpen, you can't turn!" At first, I didn't know how to sharpen so I paid someone at the local Woodcraft store $6 each time to sharpen a bowl gouge. It wasn't long before I decided I could do as well as he could. I do collect free or cheap old tools to regrind or give away so I had plenty to practice on.

Unless you learn to sharpen by hand, the key to a good edge is a good jig. I use two: I sharpen spindle gouges on a 1200 grit Tormek wheel with their gouge jig. I sharpen bowl gouges on a 600 CBN wheel with the Oneway Wolverine with their Varigrind jig. (NOT the Varigrind II. I have words about that one) I keep both jigs preset for the grinds I've decided I prefer so I don't have to adjust them. For more than one grind I'd get another jig.

There are a zillion "favorite" grinds out there and every mfgr (and every "pro" turner/demonstrator) uses one. The thing I discovered is the exact grind doesn't matter much. There are subtle variations that matter in some cases to some people. But when starting out, just go with some grind, learn to sharpen it, and learn to use it. The tool control, arm/hand/leg movement and sharp, sharp, sharp edge is far more important than the exact grind. You can adapt to almost any grind as long as the tool is sharp. In my opinion, of course.

If you don't have a sharpening system, there are lots of options but many, many people use the Wolverine. I use the platform and mini platform for all skews, parting tools, bedan, and such, and the Varigrind for all sizes of bowl gouges. Some mfgrs, like Thompson, provide recommended settings for the Varigrind. Basically, set the angle on the jig, adjust the amount of the gouge that sticks out the front, adjust the support bar so the bevel angle is close to the existing bevel, and grind away. Much of the shape you get (at the nose, the wings) depends on how much pressure and time used at different places on the bevel.
A sharp tool with some reasonable profile far beats a less sharp tool with any profile, original mfgr or not.

I mount the bench grinder and the Wolverine base to a square of 3/4" plywood so I can move it if needed. Note that some bench grinder castings may need some grinding on the bottom before they will sit flat on the plywood or bench. 1/2hp grinders are fine for 8" aluminum CBN wheels. I did use conventional grinding wheels for years but far prefer CBN now.

If you are a member of a club, ask and you might well find someone willing to spend some time with you on sharpening. Some clubs have a formal mentorship program. Some have willing and experienced members. I've had a number of people come to my shop for sharpening as well as turning help. (One guy brought a gouge that looked like it was sharpened by holding it out the door against the pavement on the ride over!! )

Another option, until you get comfortable with sharpening, and depending on what you like to turn, may be to get one of the Hunter carbide tools. These have extremely sharp round cutters that can be used as a gouge or as a scraper. You replace the cutter instead of sharpening. The first one I use for a long time, can't remember, maybe a year or more, before replacing it. (It is advised to rotate the cutter a bit ever day or so to even out the wear.) I prefer one in particular, the small Hunter Hercules for turning at least part of almost every bowl/platter/box I make and on a lot of spindles as well. I used it on almost all of the turning, rough and final, of a wand I just submitted for the June challengem made of very hard and dense African Blackwood. It cut like butter and left an almost polished surface. I keep various Hunter tools but the small Hercules is my go-to. (I do also use various spindle and bowl gouges as appropriate or depending on how I feel at the moment.) John Lucas has some videos on using Hunter tools.

JKJ

 

[Alan Weinberg]

Learning to sharpen and doing it often would be the first and most important thing I’d tell someone asking woodturning advice.

 

[Jon Rista]

Another option, until you get comfortable with sharpening, and depending on what you like to turn, may be to get one of the Hunter carbide tools. These have extremely sharp round cutters that can be used as a gouge or as a scraper. You replace the cutter instead of sharpening. The first one I use for a long time, can't remember, maybe a year or more, before replacing it. (It is advised to rotate the cutter a bit ever day or so to even out the wear.) I prefer one in particular, the small Hunter Hercules for turning at least part of almost every bowl/platter/box I make and on a lot of spindles as well. I used it on almost all of the turning, rough and final, of a wand I just submitted for the June challengem made of very hard and dense African Blackwood. It cut like butter and left an almost polished surface. I keep various Hunter tools but the small Hercules is my go-to. (I do also use various spindle and bowl gouges as appropriate or depending on how I feel at the moment.) John Lucas has some videos on using Hunter tools.

JKJ

Only thought here is...if you REALLY want to learn how to sharpen, having a fallback option that gets you out of the NECESSITY of sharpening, might hamper progress.

I would stick with the gouge, and not get any carbide tipped tools, as a way of forcing the issue: You HAVE to sharpen, there is no way around it, so do it, learn it, learn it well, and do it often.

 

[Doug Freeman]

One of the reasons I recommend “high value” tools (like Benjamin’s Best). A lot less anxiety putting a $30 tool on the grinder vs a $100 tool.

Agree that carbide tools are not an answer - they work differently (even the cupped cutters) and inhibit learning how to use hss tools.

Just accept that a tool or 2 may have to be used up learning how to grind. Go slow and easy, very light, almost no, pressure against the wheel. Just like using a tool, the “feel” for sharpening is developed by doing it - again and again and again…

 

[hockenbery]

Still a learning process, but getting better.

When I teach sharpening I have the student practice the movement with the wheel off.
Then I turn on the grinder and after it comes up to speed I turn it off and have them sharpen the tool.
This lowers the intimidation level, keeps them from pushing too hard against the wheel ( lot of redos on this), nothing real bad ever happened with a student but I always thought the wheel would stop prior to severe injury.
When they’ve got a nice edge with the power off I have them do a final sharpening with the power on.

This is a bit hard to do on your own moving the hand from the switch to sharpening position but you can give it a go.

 

[John K Jordan]

When I teach sharpening I have the student practice the movement with the wheel off.
Then I turn on the grinder and after it comes up to speed I turn it off and have them sharpen the tool.
This lowers the intimidation level, keeps them from pushing too hard against the wheel ( lot of redos on this), nothing real bad ever happened with a student but I always thought the wheel would stop prior to severe injury.
When they’ve got a nice edge with the power off I have them do a final sharpening with the power on.

This is a bit hard to do on your own moving the hand from the switch to sharpening position but you can give it a go.

I like your brilliant way of teaching sharpening. A variable-speed bench grinder would be ideal but the minimum speed of some I've looked at was 2000 rpm. Turning on then off is a great idea but now I'm thinking of how to drive the wheel at a continuous low speed at first, maybe a small, low-torque variable speed motor with a small rubber roller - I suspect a hand-held electric drill with a sanding sleeve mandrel would work . Thanks for the idea.

I do a similar thing when teaching the skew. Start with a smoothly rounded cylinder on the lathe. With the lathe turned off let them practice the tool presentation against the wood for planing cuts. Then I turn the lathe by hand and let them "feel" for the edge until they can make clean shavings, me watching, advising, correcting. Once they can make clean shavings while moving the tool down the cylinder with me turning the lathe by hand, I stop, smooth the cylinder again so they start with a clean slate, put the belt on the low speed then turn the lathe on very slow while they practice the cuts. Then gradually sneak the speed up until it's at full speed. As you said with sharpening, this is a great confidence builder for the skew. (then we go to spindle gouge and learn to make coves)

I do this for beginners who have never seen a lathe and old-timers who had developed a fear of the skew.
I've never once had someone get a catch. Some have told me later the skew was their favorite tool.

Can't wait to try the slow-speed sharpening!

JKJ

 

[hockenbery]

do a similar thing when teaching the skew. Start with a smoothly rounded cylinder on the lathe. With the lathe turned off let them practice the tool presentation against the wood for planing cuts

With bowls I show some things with the lathe off like rolling the gouge into some cuts.
With students If they need better foot position or body movement I have then practice curs with the lathe off until the get there feet set nicely and get a smoother body movement.

 

[John K Jordan]

With bowls I show some things with the lathe off like rolling the gouge into some cuts.
With students If they need better foot position or body movement I have then practice curs with the lathe off until the get there feet set nicely and get a smoother body movement.

Excellent! We apparently work similarly with those too. And conventional scrapers, NRS, shear scraping with gouges, etc.

I've had some, usually older people with some turning experience, who were horrible with their feet and lets. Some don't "get it" even with repeated reminders. Teens are so quick to catch on. When starting a planing cut with the skew I have people move over and position feet and legs and skew comfortably at what will be the end of the cut, then bend the knees and shift position to the beginning of the cut and start. Helps avoid the dreaded "swing the skew with the arms tendency.

For coves, I usually mount a blank, turn a couple of coves (shallow and deep) with a spindle gouge while they watch, explain the three coordinated motions needed. Then go back over that cove and show the motions slowly, then let them practice motions on my cove with the lathe off. All have said coves were more difficult than skew planing cuts because of the coordinated tool motions needed. Same with beads. I like the way Raffan teaches spindle turning and the practice advice in his books.

To help visualize, I made an oversized cylinder and a big wooden skew model skew. The cylinder is marked with a useful edge angle and I cut a deep v-groove near one end. They can practice holding the model skew in the right position before going to the real skew.

For deep v-grooves and facing cuts, the angle and clearance, of course, are critical. The oversized model makes it easier for people to see and understand what is needed to banish the dreaded catch. This sets nicely on an unpowered Jet mini on the bench.

I saw where someone fashioned a similar oversized spindle gouge model from a big wood dowel. I want to make one of those.



I have no idea how to teach someone who turns while seated. Seems like a huge set of obstacles to conquer.

JKJ

 

[hockenbery]

have no idea how to teach someone who turns while seated. Seems like a huge set of obstacles to conquer.

I’ve just taught a few and I always made it a collaborative effort. I’d show them where the best path for the tool would be then ask them how can you hold it and move it so the tool edge follows that path. They’d work it out to a point that looked effective then they try it.

3 good local turners I know who turned chair bound all had different effect techniques.
One guy in a wheel chair positioned the chair and locked it then used the chair as brace to turn his upper body through the cut.
Another guy in a wheel chair had some use of his legs. He used his feet to rotate the chair as he cut.
A third guy turned from a motorized scooter he liked the lathe at eye level and turned only with carbides. He used the tools level so the handle was about shoulder level reminded me of someone throwing darts. Just sort of poke at the wood he wanted to take off. He also used about a dozen different carbide tools to get shapes and smoothness. He won a best in show at the Florida state fairs.

older people

As great generalization working with older people and kids has a lot in common. They often lack range of motion and hand strength.
Many can’t turn a box by pressure fitting the lid. If they get it on they can’t get it off.
Jimmy Clewes’s and David Ellsworth were excellent at adapting for older people. I had lengthy conversation with both about how to work with older individuals in classes they were teaching in my shop.
I never got close to their level.

 

[Tom Gall]

The thing I discovered is the exact grind doesn't matter much. There are subtle variations that matter in some cases to some people. But when starting out, just go with some grind, learn to sharpen it, and learn to use it. The tool control, arm/hand/leg movement and sharp, sharp, sharp edge is far more important than the exact grind. You can adapt to almost any grind as long as the tool is sharp. In my opinion, of course.

This is a most important statement to remember. Sharp edge meets wood ... it cuts! After all, the wood doesn't know (or care) what kind of tool, bevel angle, sharpening method, etc., we are using. It could be a hatchet, a shovel, or whatever. We only use different types of tools and bevel grinds for better and/or easier access to achieve the results we want (i.e., bowls, spindles, etc.). Thank you Del Stubbs.

 

[Gene Gabriel]

All great tips. Thank you. I have been using a combination of traditional tools and carbide. They do react quite differently from each other (in my short turning experience). Carbide does seem to have a quicker learning curve. I wouldn’t rough out a bowl with one though. There is something satisfying about the swept back wing slicing right through the wood, maybe I’m a little weird. I do practice the movements of the gouge with the wheel turned off. I’ve been considering a 180 grit CBN wheel. That will be my first CBN wheel, so I have no experience with them. I will have to give more consideration to the grit I get, now seeing other recommendations on this thread. Once again, thank you all for responding and giving advice and support.

 

[Jim Reynolds]

Rich Colvin has create a wonderful resource on sharpening the Sharpening Handbook there is a section for woodturning tools, but also how to sharpen your Hori Hori knife and dozens of other tools. This is more educational than training, but I refer to it regularly.

 

[Webb Willmott]

Please don’t say all new tools are not that sharp. Many fit that description but I just received a bowl gouge from Doug Thompson and it’s razor sharp. It cut thru the plastic tool tube and fortunately the cardboard mailing tube keep it confined.

 

[John K Jordan]

I have been using a combination of traditional tools and carbide.

Just to be clear, what kind of carbide tools? There is a huge difference between the Hunter (and copies) and the mostly flat-topped carbide tools like the early Eazy Wood. If referring the the latter, I have words...

JKJ

 

[Gene Gabriel]

The carbides I have been using are of the Rockler variety. Those Hunters do look pretty sweet.

 

[John K Jordan]

The carbides I have been using are of the Rockler variety. Those Hunters do look pretty sweet.

I haven't tried any of the Rockler, but from my experience flat-topped carbide tools in general, although they don't need sharpening and are easy to use, sometimes may not cut cleanly on certain wood and in certain circumstances. At least not for me. The Hunter bits work more like very sharp gouges. With reasonably good wood and reasonable tool control the results can be pleasing.

As an example, I sized this piece from African Blackwood with a parting tool, then turned with a Hunter Hercules tool with the tiny #1 cutter, used like a spindle gouge in this case. This is off the tool with no sanding. With some care the polished cutter can leave an ALMOST flawless surface. (I turn at high speed which helps.)

After rough cutting to near the desired shape, the long section is mostly a single cleanup pass with a couple of careful restarts. You can see where the surface still needs some work. (Sorry, the wide angle camera lens distorts a lot!)


This is the same piece after sanding by hand with 600-1200 grit. (I still wasn't happy with the ends so I reshaped them after this, again with the Hunter tool, and resanded.)


I held this piece with what I call "jam centers", kind of like jam chucks but acting as centers with jam pieces turned to fit the little curved bowls I'd cut in both ends. Before shaping the jam pieces to fit, I had cut short #2 morse tapers on both so I could hold them in the headstock and in the 2MT built into the Nova live center. (My favorite live center - extremely adaptable to hold almost any small thing!)

BTW, I make "jam" and friction centers as needed to hold the ends of spindles and other work, for example to support an end a drilled hole such as when making a conductor's baton. With the 2MT in the Nova live center it's easy to make one of any size and shape as needed. A few in the foreground here, with some things that come with the Nova center behind. This works after a fashion with Oneway live enters if you knock out the point - held, I think, with a #0MT.



The point is, for me, the Hunter carbide tools can do a reasonable job. The same thing could be done with a 3/8" spindle gouge but might require resharpening since the African Blackwood is so hard. I wouldn't try this with flat-top scraping tools but someone else might.

I rely on the combination of the Hunter Hercules and a spindle gouge for lots of other things, for example to acrylic things such as this little stopper. BTW, for small things I loves me some new Nova dome jaws! I first saw these at the TAW symposium the end of January.



JKJ

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

Please don’t say all new tools are not that sharp. Many fit that description but I just received a bowl gouge from Doug Thompson and it’s razor sharp. It cut thru the plastic tool tube and fortunately the cardboard mailing tube keep it confined.

That's the exception, I would say. Thompson, Carter and Sons, Crown, etc. might come out of the box sharp, but the Sorbys, Hurricanes, etc. don't from what I recall.

 

[hockenbery]

Please don’t say all new tools are not that sharp. Many fit that description but I just received a bowl gouge from Doug Thompson and it’s razor sharp. It cut thru the plastic tool tube and fortunately the cardboard mailing tube keep it confined.

Doug is putting a usable edge on his tool but is it the grind profile you want?

I get a bit picky about the profiles for my spindle gouges and bowl gouges.
I have 3 Thompson bowl gouges. One with Michelson grind the other two are jaimeson gouges with an Ellsworth grind.

 

[John K Jordan]

Doug is putting a usable edge on his tool but is it the grind profile you want?

I get a bit picky about the profiles for my spindle gouges and bowl gouges.
I have 3 Thompson bowl gouges. One with Michelson grind the other two are jaimeson gouges with an Ellsworth grind.

Ha! I love Doug and his tools but I take his grinds as suggestions, a starting point, a production step I suspect he has to do to sell them. I don't think I've ever used any Thompson tool with the factory grind, except to test it. For example, the 3/8" spindle and shallow detail gouges are fantastic but first thing I do is regrind. Same with skews and scrapers.

What I really like is the round rods he sells in 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2" diameters (come with flat ends, no grind). I grind those into a variety of special tools, round skews, point tools, NRS - often a different tool on each end. (Just wish they were a little longer...)

JKJ

 

[Jon Rista]

That's the exception, I would say. Thompson, Carter and Sons, Crown, etc. might come out of the box sharp, but the Sorbys, Hurricanes, etc. don't from what I recall.

I think "sharp" is probably a subjective term. I own a bunch of Carter & Son tools and some Crown Cryo, and while they started out reasonably sharp, and I am not any particular kind of expert at sharpening here, I can get them much sharper with a little additional sharpening. I think to some degree, no manufacturer wants their tools to cut through the shipping containers... So I don't think any will actually arrive as sharp as they could be (and I know that there are additional things that can be done beyond what I do myself, such as honing with a leather strop and the like, that can take sharpness to another level beyond what I try to achieve), and that is by design.

I like my tools to cut through wood like it was butter. When that stops happening, I go back and give any tool a quick re-sharpen. I don't think I've ever had any tool right out of the box/tube do that from the get-go. C&S definitely cut, and better than most, but I don't ever recall them just moving through the wood like it was barely there...

Again, though, there might be different definitions of what sharp is.

 

[Gene Gabriel]

Certainly anything mass produced will not have an edge that has been sharpened to the ultimate sharpness. Usable out of the box, sure. But, as we are all individuals, we all have our own spin that we put on what we consider our own tools peak performance. And just like anything else, that comes with experience and a lot of trial and error.

 

[Tom Drees]

I am fairly new to sharpening and am not pleased with my efforts. I have a low speed grinder with a 60 grit and a 120 grit white wheel. I know that’s not good enough. What grit wheels would you recommend, and is the c b n wheels really that much better.

 

[John K Jordan]

I am fairly new to sharpening and am not pleased with my efforts. I have a low speed grinder with a 60 grit and a 120 grit white wheel. I know that’s not good enough. What grit wheels would you recommend, and is the c b n wheels really that much better.

Hello Tom!

Different people have different experiences and likes AND what and how they to things. I've tried a number of types of wheels and grits. I can tell you what I ended up with the works for me.

I use a low speed (no name Woodcraft) grinder with two CBN wheels.

One is an 8" 60 grit CBN coated aluminum wheel I use primarily for reshaping tools to fit what I like to do, for example making custom tools or special negative rake scrapers. This wheel is wide, has "square" edges instead of rounded, and has 1" of grit flat down both sides.

The second wheel is an 8" 600 grit CBN wheel, made just like the first one.
The third wheel is a 10" 1200 grit wheel on a Tormek, used dry.

I use the 600 grit CBN with a Oneway Wolverine with the large flat platform or the mini platform to
- sharpen all skews (by hand, either straight edge or rounded edge
- sharpen parting tools, bedans, spindle roughing gouges, and other tools
- sharpen all negative rake scrapers.
- sharpen all conventional scrapers
- sharpen some custom tools such as my "Wicked Point Tool" described in a different thread.
- sharpen those tools I custom grind on the 60 grit wheel
- sharpen bowl gouges with a Oneway Varigrind jig (NOT the Varigrind II)

I use the 10" 1200 grit CBN wheel on the Tormek to sharpen all my spindle gouges. I am real particular about their sharpness.
I use the leather stropping wheels on the Tormek with honing compound to remove all grinding burrs from almost every tool, often polishing the edge a bit.

JKJ

 

[Tom Drees]

Thanks John. I knew what I have isn’t good enough but didn’t know how fine of a grit would be better. Everyone on this forum seems the c b m wheels are better so I think I’ll try one. Maybe about 600 grit.

 

[John K Jordan]

Thanks John. I knew what I have isn’t good enough but didn’t know how fine of a grit would be better. Everyone on this forum seems the c b m wheels are better so I think I’ll try one. Maybe about 600 grit

To be fair, many people are perfectly happy with a coarser grit than 600 for their sharpening. One problem is people don't always describe what they are turning.
Much depends on what kind of things they turned and the wood used. Some depends on how much sanding is acceptable. Big bowls from green domestic wood may have different edge requires from thin spindles and small detail on hard, dry exotic wood.

I almost always turn dry wood. And for me, the harder the wood, the better IMO.

For the way I like to work my goal is always shaving sharp - I even test with the hair on my left arm. I don't power sand with rotating disk. I usually smooth with negative rake scrapers, followed by hand scrapers, and sanded mostly by hand - and that's for spindles, bowls, platters, hollow forms. Not everyone works this way.

Asking about the best setup for sharpening seems kind of like asking what's the best book to read next or the best DVD to buy! It depends.

Good advice might be to find a sharpening/turning mentor and spend some time trying different things.

JKJ

 

[Doug Freeman]

I am fairly new to sharpening and am not pleased with my efforts. I have a low speed grinder with a 60 grit and a 120 grit white wheel. I know that’s not good enough. What grit wheels would you recommend, and is the c b n wheels really that much better.

What aspects are you not pleased with? A 120 gr wheel will produce a very usable edge. Not that long ago 80 gr was considered ok.

Being fairly new, you may not have reasonable expectations. Depending on the wood I may do an entire bowl only resharpening for finish cuts, or I may be resharpening after a few passes. Bark and other inclusions can knock an edge down quickly.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I am fairly new to sharpening and am not pleased with my efforts. I have a low speed grinder with a 60 grit and a 120 grit white wheel. I know that’s not good enough. What grit wheels would you recommend, and is the c b n wheels really that much better.

CBNs are great because they never wear. The white wheels will wear away, changing the diameter and affecting your grind. I bought UF-Sharp CBNs from Amazon. They are $110 vs. $200+ at woodworking sites. You might run a risk with lesser-priced CBNs, but I have had no issues with the two I have. You could buy just one CBN to start with. I would consider a 180g if you are only going to use one CBN. My two are 80 grit and 320. Also, if you haven't already, you'll want to pick up the Oneway Wolverine with Verigrind, or similar system. It takes all the guesswork out of sharpening.

 

[Tom Drees]

Thanks Kent. Are you happy with the sharpness with the 360 grit.,also I do have the wolverine with verigrind.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I use the 360 (or maybe it's a 320) for my bowl and spindle gouges. The main advantage to a higher grit wheel is that it removes less material per sharpening. I use the 80 grit for flat tools because I'm too lazy to move the platform over to the 360.

 

[Alan Weinberg]

I use the 360 (or maybe it's a 320) for my bowl and spindle gouges. The main advantage to a higher grit wheel is that it removes less material per sharpening. I use the 80 grit for flat tools because I'm too lazy to move the platform over to the 360.

Hahahaha. I have the same laziness—a 220 on the platform and 600 with the Wolverine.

 

[robo hippy]

The Rockler carbide tools are pretty much scrapers. Being smaller in size than most standard scrapers, they are easier to handle. I do use scraping tools for all of my bowl rough outs, and finish with a gouge. The bad thing about using scrapers a lot when starting is that you do not learn to use your gouges which generally means more time sanding. You do need to learn to use the gouges, both on spindles and on bowls. Sharpening is not too difficult to learn, but you do have to practice. I have 2 videos up on You Tube about sharpening. One is with me and my platform sharpening, which I found far faster than using jigs, and the other is with friend Larry Karlin who uses the Wolverine jig from Oneway. Both work. There are a lot of videos up on You Tube about sharpening turning tools, and some are better than others.

As for CBN wheels, once you try them, you won't want to go back to standard grinding wheels again, though I would say to keep those around if you need to do some serious shaping of your tools. If you get one wheel, get a 180 grit wheel which will cover 90% of all the sharpening you will ever do. For a second wheel, I would suggest a 600 grit wheel for a finer edge. Some go to the 320 or 360 or what ever it is. I didn't find that one to be enough of a step up from the 180 grit.

robo hippy

 

[Gene Gabriel]

I just ordered a 180 grit yesterday. Hopefully it’ll be in on Saturday. Perfect timing. I’m off this weekend.

 

[Tom Drees]

Thanks to all you guys. That’s what I wanted to know is what grits to use to get better results.

 

[John K Jordan]

What aspects are you not pleased with? A 120 gr wheel will produce a very usable edge. Not that long ago 80 gr was considered ok.
Being fairly new, you may not have reasonable expectations. Depending on the wood I may do an entire bowl...

Gene,

ONCE again, much about tools and sharpening depends on what you turn and what you might want to turn in the near future. Turn bowls from either green or dry wood is one thing. Turning bowls then sanding away tool marks with a rotating disks is another.

There are some differences from turning certain things with fine detail. Different tools, different sharpening, different tool control, different smoothing.

For example, I turned the holly finial for a Christmas ornament with a spindle gouge sharpened on a 600 grit CBN wheel. The photo is right off the tool. The tool edge was sharp enough the finial needed NO sanding. Not sure I could have done that if the gouge was sharpened with a 120 grit or coarser wheel. The ebony finial was with the same tool, but with a touch of fine sandpaper after.



What and how you turn can make a big difference in your satisfaction with a sharpening method. Many people can go through life without wanting to turn things like these. For some of us it's a passion.

I've mostly quit turning bowls unless a friend wants one. IMO, bowls are not much challenge. But wouldn't it be boring if we all only liked the same things!!

I still recommend to find a turning and sharpening mentor, explore as many options as possible, and discover what you like the best.

JKJ

 

[robo hippy]

John, do you strop the burr off of your skew chisels before turning? I am not much of a skew person, being mostly a bowl turner, but getting rid of the burr helped me a lot. I noticed, after I started stropping the burr, that before, It would cut fairly well in one direction, but not in the other, which was the burr side. Problem gone after I started stropping. One thing my Tormek is good for is the strop feature. I will never forget seeing Eric Lofstrom dulling his skew on the lathe bed at a demo, sharpening it on a 60 grit CBN wheel, stropping, and then shaving the hair off of his arm. It seemed to make a big difference in how my skews worked for me.

robo hippy

 

[John K Jordan]

John, do you strop the burr off of your skew chisels before turning? I am not much of a skew person, being mostly a bowl turner, but getting rid of the burr helped me a lot. I noticed, after I started stropping the burr, that before, It would cut fairly well in one direction, but not in the other, which was the burr side. Problem gone after I started stropping. One thing my Tormek is good for is the strop feature. I will never forget seeing Eric Lofstrom dulling his skew on the lathe bed at a demo, sharpening it on a 60 grit CBN wheel, stropping, and then shaving the hair off of his arm. It seemed to make a big difference in how my skews worked for me.

robo hippy

I always remove the burr from skews, gouges, and other tools. I use the leather wheels on the Tormek with some honing compound rubbed in, on a foot switch to make it easier. I end up with a gently polished cutting edge. I also test the edge on arm hair.

I use the wide flat leather Tormek wheel plus some shaped leather wheels on the inside flutes of bowl and spindle gouges.

Another thing I do between sharpenings is use something I came up with years ago. I resaw a piece of 3/4" MDF into three pieces on the bandsaw, maybe 4x6" or so, then rub polishing/honing compound (any type) into the rough bandsawn surface. To touch up a skew after some use, I press the bevel hard against the MDF while flat on the workbench, raise the handle the slightest amount, then draw the skew back towards me. I can tell from black marks on the polishing compound that it's removing a bit of steel. This puts the skew back to polished sharp/sharp (without messing with the bevel geometry) and I carry on at the lathe.

This one needs a bit of replenishing with compound in the center.



BTW, I've mentioned this before, but I also always remove the burrs on NRS and conventional scrapers, then add burnished burs. Some prefer to use the grinder burr but I find the burnished bur lasts a lot longer and can be removed with an extra-fine diamond paddle hone and replenished several times before going back to the grinder.

JKJ

 

[Cary Hulse]

Speaking of grinding jigs - I see nearly everyone uses the Oneway Wolverine system.
I got hold of a Savannah Pro-Grind Sharpening System (simply because it was cheaper than the other ones at the time) and have been quite happy with it. I love that it came with setup blocks, making it really easy to repeat the same angles accurately.
Anyone else use the Savannah one?

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