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The Big Ugly Tool

big and ugly

Nice video on making the tool. I'm all in for owning another tool especially one that I can make myself. What do you like about this style scraper as compared to anything that is commercially available? Is it used primarily used for spindle work or do you also use it on bowls etc. Something was said about Madrone in particular. Just trying to figure out why it is poplar with the west coast turners.
 
Well, one of the big points is edge holding. Stays sharp for multiple bowls. I think it makes an excellent heavy roughing tool, especially for bowls. The edge holds almost as well as carbide, but you can easily sharpen it on standard wheels. Used here a lot for Myrtle, which tends to be abrasive on tools. When I get to my friend and shot some film of him, he turns some dainty finials with it.

robo hippy
 
Rick, there is a link on the video or in the wordage some where. VR Wesson in Florida has it.

robo hippy
 
allen jay said:
where does on acquire this magical metal??
tungstal????
Click to expand...

Do a Google search for "tantung" or "stellite". I see HERE that there are twelve different alloys in the stellite category and I believe that there are also several different flavors of tantung. I read in several sites that Stellite J and Tantung G are the best ones for woodworking. I am pretty certain that a tantung big ugly scraper is the only thing that stands between me and greatness. :rolleyes: Unfortunately, I don't do acetylene welding or silver soldering so I'll just have to be content knowing that I was that close to fame and fortune.
 
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That's why this makes a great club project, some one in the club will have the skills.... Of course, you need to love scrapers...

robo hippy
 
Not really, in part because I don't know how to use the torch, and have no room for tanks and fire stuff in the shop. Guessing, the 1 inch wide ones, made for sale would be in the $100 range.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
Not really, in part because I don't know how to use the torch, and have no room for tanks and fire stuff in the shop. Guessing, the 1 inch wide ones, made for sale would be in the $100 range.

robo hippy
Click to expand...
Robo, how do you source your blades these days? It’s been 10 years since that video. Someone has to be replenishing your stock. Who sells them now, and what specific types of blades are they making?
 
Well, since I stopped making them some years back, I don't worry about a source any more. I believe the original business was sold, but I used to get them from VR Wesson in Florida. Not sure who bought the company. I have enough to last me for a while, so didn't try to source it any more. Stellite, which is the material that the cutters on the Woodcut coring system are made from is another excellent metal with very similar properties. Not sure where you would get that either.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
Well, since I stopped making them some years back, I don't worry about a source any more. I believe the original business was sold, but I used to get them from VR Wesson in Florida. Not sure who bought the company. I have enough to last me for a while, so didn't try to source it any more. Stellite, which is the material that the cutters on the Woodcut coring system are made from is another excellent metal with very similar properties. Not sure where you would get that either.

robo hippy
Click to expand...
Paradoxically enough, I found Stellite right here in Ukraine. We have a factory that produces various alloys using rare earth metals, and they sell rods in 3 to 5 mm sizes. AI has been providing a lot of helpful information on this topic lately. Also, Steve Nix suggested checking eBay, and I found a seller there who is offering Tantung from the original VR Wesson company. Ukraine has always been famous for its advanced metallurgy. I’ve read that many turners here buy old Soviet-made drill bits and turn them into excellent cutters. Even today, you can still find many high-quality alloys from those times.
 
A couple more sources. I got some used high speed steel paper knives from a company that makes paper forms. Years ago, I got used paper knives from a newspaper company. Old planer or jointer blades will also work. I've gotten small chips of carbide from a local sharpening shop that uses them to re-tip carbide saw blades. They work great for small hollowing tools. Of course, you will need a way to sharpen carbide, but there are inexpensive wheels available.

I braze the tips to the steel shaft, but that still requires an acetylene torch.
 
I do think the stellite works as well as the tantung, and it may even take a finer edge. Only source I could find for it here was in Canada, and they sent me samples once, and when I called them back for more, they only wanted to sell a "block" of it. Not sure about metric sizes, too much of a Gringo/Yankee! My favorite is a 1 inch wide one. 3/4 works also, but the 1 inch one just feels better in my hands.

As for brazing, or standard soldering, the solder does not wick all the way into the middle of the piece. I would think standard silver solder could work, but I would put a couple of pieces under what you are trying to attack. Maybe even hammer them out a little to flatten them. I used silver solder ribbon, and I think a source for it would have been through the refrigeration businesses. You do need an acetylene torch with a "rosebud" tip to spread the heat more evenly. My favorite bar stock to solder it on to was 5/16 cold rolled steel for the 1 inch wide stock and 1/4 for the 3/4 stock. Traditional was square bar stock which I don't like because it is too high centered and I use it flat most of the time.

robo hippy
 
Tymur Kharkivskyi said:
Paradoxically enough, I found Stellite right here in Ukraine. We have a factory that produces various alloys using rare earth metals, and they sell rods in 3 to 5 mm sizes. AI has been providing a lot of helpful information on this topic lately. Also, Steve Nix suggested checking eBay, and I found a seller there who is offering Tantung from the original VR Wesson company. Ukraine has always been famous for its advanced metallurgy. I’ve read that many turners here buy old Soviet-made drill bits and turn them into excellent cutters. Even today, you can still find many high-quality alloys from those times.
Click to expand...

Tim

If you have local access to used Stellite and Tantung milling bits you can also make gouges from them...

hughie

Thread 'Tantung gouge tips'

Some years ago I came across Tantung steel which according to the blurb is in between HSS and TCT and can be ground by conventional grind stones. Then I ran across a comment by Robbo Hippy about its edge holding ability, something along the lines of “sharpen it in the morning and all turn all day” now that intrigued me. I picked up a piece 6mm square by 75mm and made up a simple Oland hollower out ¾ shaft results were very good. But at the end of the day its was a scraping type action and I was after a more durable slicing edge.
I teamed up with Neil Strong from Adelaide SA in order to...
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We found that Tantung has its own particular performance characteristics. It excels with some turning task but does not do so well on others tasks.

Neil S

Post in thread 'Tantung gouge tips'

Hughie generously made two bowl gouges from Tantung for me to try, one ½” and the other ⅝”. I was pleased to have this opportunity to test the Tantung on some of the harder woods that I turn at times, which are known to challenge most woodturning tools.

Summary for those that don’t wish to read the details: Overall I found that Tantung performed close to V15 on endurance with push cuts where the leading edge is supported with metal behind it. On the finer cuts, like with shear finishing cuts, where the fine edge is less or unsupported, the Tantung didn't perform as well.

My...
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.
 
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Neil S said:
Tim

If you have local access to used Stellite and Tantung milling bits you can also make gouges from them...

hughie

Thread 'Tantung gouge tips'

Some years ago I came across Tantung steel which according to the blurb is in between HSS and TCT and can be ground by conventional grind stones. Then I ran across a comment by Robbo Hippy about its edge holding ability, something along the lines of “sharpen it in the morning and all turn all day” now that intrigued me. I picked up a piece 6mm square by 75mm and made up a simple Oland hollower out ¾ shaft results were very good. But at the end of the day its was a scraping type action and I was after a more durable slicing edge.
I teamed up with Neil Strong from Adelaide SA in order to...
  • Like
Click to expand...
Thank you Neil. I’ve finished reading through your thread. Hughie told me all about your experiments and said that you’ve done a brilliant job—his only regret is that you live so far away from him. 🤪

I was actually messaging him just 10 minutes ago about the V15.

Based on his recommendation, I’m studying all the materials where you’re mentioned. He values you very highly. :cool:
 
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