New Chuck

[Brian Gustin]

Curious what those problems were and the time frame?

+1

 

[John K Jordan]

I too am slightly curious about the "all the problems" statement but I can't imagine how that would matter to me. If there were mechanical problems in the past, perhaps they were before my time. I'm a relative newcomer with just 25 years of experience.

The direction of rotation never bother me for a second. None wore out, all are precise. They have held all sorts of things, tiny (3/16" dia), and larger (20).

I've had more than 20 Nova chucks, five different models. Used by me and a bunch of students. And a LOT of people I know are happy with Nova chucks.

But like almost anything else in the world some people are fans of certain things and stick with them. Chevy vs Ford, city vs country life. Nothing wrong with any of that that. As someone else pointed out, you can turn wood with any chuck that will grip the wood. I've turned on almost every brand of chuck available. Perhaps some problems could be with the user than the hardware. I've never blamed a chuck for my own failures.

What ever the chuck brand, what is more important to me is that it allows the same jaws to work on the all the chucks in the shop.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

The problems were with the jaw slides, where they would not fit properly and it would take several tries to get a proper set. It's been a while and probably around 20 years or better.

The production then was changed to China, as I said it was the reason I got Oneway Chucks.

Found some talk about this, but of course you do not have to believe me.

There are very few turners that have been turning longer than 20-25 years and remember what was happening. then, basically all on the REC forum.

 

[Bill Alston]

Interesting Leo, thanks. OneWay chucks look good and are available over here. We haven’t had so many tool shows since Covid so I've not had chance to see one up close. They are a similar price to an Axminster chuck, or about double the price of the Nova.

 

[Doug Freeman]

The problems were with the jaw slides, where they would not fit properly and it would take several tries to get a proper set. It's been a while and probably around 20 years or better.

The production then was changed to China, as I said it was the reason I got Oneway Chucks.

Found some talk about this, but of course you do not have to believe me.

There are very few turners that have been turning longer than 20-25 years and remember what was happening. then, basically all on the REC forum.

Thanks Leo. As an engineer I'm always curious about failure modes etc. I suspected the timeframe was pre ~2000. From the look of it, it may have been an assembly issue, getting the 1-2-3-4 jaw slides sent with each chuck. It wouldn't surprise me if early on Nova might have made the jaw slides out of mild steel, like the jaws, and had galling issues, which caused them to go to the pm jaw slides with iron infused with copper.

Nova says they had the 1st self centering woodturning chuck introduced in 1988. I'm sure there were "teething" problems - I was involved with several new product launches and major product redesigns in my mfg career, and none were perfect. Much of my career was spent working with scroll hvac compressors, which utilized mating scroll members (similar in design to the spiral looking scroll of a chuck) for gas compression. The machining tolerances for the compressors are orders of magnitude more precise vs a chuck, as the pair of scrolls must seal gas pressure.

I have a Oneway Stronghold chuck as well as a couple of Nova's. In ~ 6 years of use the only issue with either was an insert with one of the Nova's that caused excess run out - replacement of the insert cured that issue. While there might be longer term wear out issues with the Nova design, I don't see any signs yet (I spent several years as a reliability engineer). There are 2 design aspects with Oneway chucks I consider "best in class" - the taper lock insert design and the "profile" jaw design, providing sufficient grip throughout jaw expansion range to not have concern with "perfect circle" size of the jaws.

I purchased a Nova chuck at a special price when I purchased a Nova lathe, getting the Stronghold chuck several months later. I've considered replacing the Nova with a Talon, but the Nova performs just fine - well enough I purchased a 2nd one to reduce jaw changes. Yes Nova chucks are significantly cheaper vs Oneway, Vicmarc, Axminster and others, but that does not mean they are not just as capable of holding a piece of wood in a lathe. I view them as providing an excellent value alternative in the market.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Ah that clarification helps. I notice specific mention of a particular brand - the "Compac" - which I have never heard of , and I'd tend to suspect that was their goal of coming out with an even cheaper design chuck to compete on price - I would bet it was later replaced with the G3 , which I have one, but I, oddly enough, DISLIKE the geared key chucks and really prefer the "sealed" body with hex or square key - I notice also when I was searching for more Supernova 2 chucks , that new ones were considerably more expensive than the G3 - In any case, I have several Nova chucks and quite happy with all of them, giving strong preference to the SN2 - So much so that I can't imagine wanting to spend 2-3 times as much on a chuck that for all intents and purposes does for me the exact same thing.
(And BTW, Bill A - Your original opening post, the chuck would be so expensive because it is a precision chuck that is built as a precision machinist chuck commonly used on a metal lathe, you can tell by the provided jaw slides - Innies and outies - in addition to the threaded hole slides... but I cannot imagine needing .0001" precision tolerances in woodturning, because Wood, unlike metal, likes to move.)

 

[Bill Blasic]

The Nova chuck is the oldest of the modern day 4 jaw chucks. Take that Vicmarc that Robo has above that he says turns the wrong way, well that is because it was a direct copy of the Nova chuck. The 1 and only problem that the Nova chuck experienced was with the tightening devise used on the original Supernova chuck. It is made out of some type of pot metal and some folks broke them. I have two of them and they have not broke in use for over 20+ years. A thing that I personally was not happy about is when they came out with the Titan II chuck having a 2 hole slide jaw system instead of the superior 3 hole slide system. Did not take long that the Titan III was back to the 3 hole slide system and with that they brought out 2 new jaws for it that are fantastic and will hold the biggest projects perfectly.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I do not own a chuck where the chuck body runs out more than .0015. Nova, Oneway, Vicmarc, Axminster and Bulldog chucks. To add above one problem that Nova had was Woodcraft selling no name brand inserts for the Nova chucks that made the chucks run out .006 to .009 thousands where Nova was getting blamed for bad chucks.

 

[Bill Alston]

(And BTW, Bill A - Your original opening post, the chuck would be so expensive because it is a precision chuck that is built as a precision machinist chuck commonly used on a metal lathe, you can tell by the provided jaw slides - Innies and outies.

I believe you’re getting mixed up with my other post. My original post in this thread is a Record Power chuck, not the expensive chuck shown in my other thread.

Here’s another picture of the Record Power Chuck.

 

[hockenbery]

Curious what those problems were and the time frame?

Biggest issue In my experience is with the birdbeak jaws.
They don’t hold well on oversized tennons.
They hold well on a near perfect circle tenon with a groove for the bird beak.

ONEWAY jaws excel at holding tenons a 1/2 “ over the perfect circle- big advantage if you resize the dried tenon to fit the same jaws.
Real dovetail jaws do quite well with tenons a 1/2” over perfect circle too.

I’ve seen more than a few tenons work their way out of students’ chucks. Most often it’s a birdbeak jaws.

 

[Bill Alston]

As a point of interest, Record Power marketed the Nova chuck in the UK. They then bought out their own copy of it. First made in China I believe, but now made in the UK. Two notable differences are that Record Power made the Base Jaws (or slides) wider than the Nova, and they increased the number of indexing points on the back of the chuck from 24 to 48.

 

[John K Jordan]

I do not own a chuck where the chuck body runs out more than .0015. Nova, Oneway, Vicmarc, Axminster and Bulldog chucks. To add above one problem that Nova had was Woodcraft selling no name brand inserts for the Nova chucks that made the chucks run out .006 to .009 thousands where Nova was getting blamed for bad chucks.

I remember the reported problem with the off-brand inserts so I only bought the Teknatool/Nova inserts. With a precision ground/hardened steel rod in the slides and chuck jaws, the SN2s I checked with a dial test indicator had less than .001" runout. I didn't check them all.

I did buy a two SN1 chucks used from a club member and he must have tightened them with a cheater bar, enough to warp the body of the chuck above the slides such that they wouldn't open/close properly. Repair by hand got them working but I never trusted those two for precision.

I've seen turners get the chuck jaws mixed up but never with new jaws from the factory. I don't know how they make the jaws now but early on I noted evidence that the jaws appeared to be machined in one piece then cut into four quadrants with a saw - could see the saw marks. That means if, say, a #4 jaw segment from one set was switched with a #4 from another set the jaws may not close properly.

 

[Bill Alston]

Biggest issue In my experience is with the birdbeak jaws.
They don’t hold well on oversized tennons.
They hold well on a near perfect circle tenon with a groove for the bird beak.

I’ve seen more than a few tenons work their way out of students’ chucks. Most often it’s a birdbeak jaws.

That’s interesting, I’ve not heard of that.

Axminster’s standard C Jaws have a pronounced tenon on the inside instead of a dovetail. Axminster say that you should NOT turn a recess for this tenon but to just let it bite into the wood. I must admit though that I do make a very slight cut for it. I later learned from a professional turner doing a demo at my club that they, and others, do the same! No issues with work holding so far. This from the Axminster website.

EDIT: The video I just posted below in #55 shows the Tenon quite clearly.

 

[John K Jordan]

Biggest issue In my experience is with the birdbeak jaws.
They don’t hold well on oversized tennons.
They hold well on a near perfect circle tenon with a groove for the bird beak.

Some of that depends on the wood. If the wood is very hard, like lignum vitae or ebony, an oversized tenon may hold at just 8 "corners" while they might bite more deeply into softer wood.

For Nova jaws with the small internal dovetails that some call "birdbeak", I don't cut a groove at the bottom. I form both tenons and recess just slighly over the closed jaw dimensions. The safety groove might be useful for very hard wood or for an aggressive new turner who has not developed good tool control. I think the latter was the case when someone in a class ejected a bowl maybe six times.

When listing recommended tenon and recess diameter ranges in their chart, Teknatool states in their chuck saw manual: "Allowance must be made for condition of wood and experience of the turner."

The original instructions with the chuck were to not use significantly oversized tenons or recesses, for good reasons.
I can't remember ever having a piece come off the lathe. Seems like that could put dents in it.

 

[Bill Alston]

I don't know how they make the jaws now but early on I noted evidence that the jaws appeared to be machined in one piece then cut into four quadrants with a saw - could see the saw marks. That means if, say, a #4 jaw segment from one set was switched with a #4 from another set the jaws may not close properly.

These days Axminster Tools use a CNC mill to cut them in four. About 15 seconds in:

 

[robo hippy]

The only Nova chuck that I remember being pulled from the market was their "quick" chuck. They tried to copy the actual "Quick Chuck", and first efforts didn't go well. I do have one of the Easy (?) or Quick chucks, and don't use it. They had problems with their first efforts also. I got the new and improved version. It does work, but every thing I have is geared to my Vicmark chucks so I don't use it much.

robo hippy

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Curious what those problems were and the time frame?

The machining was hit/miss, and the other real problem was with the jaw slides, some turners were getting a set of jaws with the new chuck, that had identical slides, like two number 2 or number 3 slides, sometimes the jaws would not close properly, so imagine getting 4 jaw slides that had two identical slides, like 1 2 2 4 or 1 2 3 3 or 1 2 4 4

So when people assembled the slides into their chuck it could not close properly of course, then trying to get a new proper set it did sometimes take 2 or 3 tries for that.

Don't forget all this had to come from New Zealand, a real hassle.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also do know about new runs/model changes and was involved with these (PP1 and PP2) pre-production problems and changes at a large automotive Co. growing up in a business with product we would design and build (one offs) and then doing repair and maintenance on these, I liked doing this work, it was human problems that made me step out and emigrate to Canada in 1967.

 

[Bill Blasic]

Well I don't know about the hundred thousand Nova chucks possibly sold but I do know of about over 30 Nova chucks that I owned and still own most, that everyone that I have owned had the jaws that were numbered 1,2,3,4 and until this day I never heard of anyone getting mismatched jaws. Plus the 50 or so extra jaw sets I have are either numbered or pin pricked 1,2,3,4. I have heard of folks putting the jaws on without regard to the numbers but that wasn't limited to Nova. You can't make everybody read instructions. Just wondering Leo did Viet Nam lead you to emigrate? Been talking to my wife about emigrating up there since November.

 

[robo hippy]

Oh, forgot, again..... With the Easy Chuck, the chuck jaws do not have numbers on them. I would think that with all the fancy CNC machines this would not be needed. I did get one extended set of jaws for my bigger Vicmark chuck and one jaw sat back away from the 3 others in closed position. I should have returned it, but it was years ago and I never got "a round 2 it"....

robo hippy

 

[Bill Alston]

My Nova Chuck doesn’t have numbered Jaw slides, they just have dots on the underside.

 

[Neil S]

Nova had was Woodcraft selling no name brand inserts for the Nova chucks that made the chucks run out .006 to .009 thousands where Nova was getting blamed for bad chucks.

That was the biggest issue with Nova chucks that I can recall. Fortunately for me I had bought mine before that happened and it only lasted briefly before that was rectified.

I bought my first little Nova chuck when it was the only scroll chuck available for woodturners. I had been through what I would call a lot of prototype chucks before that... if you also had some three jawed chucks back then you will know what I am referring to there. The Nova and its cousin the Bonham were great little lever operated chucks and I still have mine and they are in regular use many decades later.

Since then I have accumulated at least half a dozen Novas in various models and an equal number of Vicmarc chucks, again in various models. Each make has had a lot of use and I am happy with all of them. I find that each has its strengths and weaknesses, but I don't consider either better overall than the other.

Having said that, at first glance, the photo of Nova jaw slides that @Bill Alston has posted look very different to what I am familiar with. I have just ordered the following Nova chuck from Woodworker Specialities, so I guess I will find out how that casting finish will go...

NOVA 23055 Supernova 2 Chuck Kit with 2" Jaws - Includes Custom Insert (OLD VERSION-LEFTY TIGHTY) ***CANADA ONLY***

SPECIAL PURCHASE – CLEARANCE PRICE – LIMITED QUANTITIES! This is the LAST of the old model of Supernova chuck (replaced

woodworkerspecialties.com

That chuck is one of the older 'lefty-tighty' models, which is OK for me because all of my other Novas operate that way and also, as half of the use of all of my chucks is tightening the jaws into the dovetail in the bowl foot when reversing it to complete the inside of the bowl, so it's righty-tighty when using the Novas for that. I reckon Nova got it right and all the others that came along later got it wrong, except for Vicmarc briefly...

 

[Bill Alston]

Having said that, at first glance, the photo of Nova jaw slides that @Bill Alston has posted look very different to what I am familiar with. I have just ordered the following Nova chuck from Woodworker Specialities, so I guess I will find out how that casting finish will go...

Unlike say an Axminster chuck where you can simply wind out the Jaws using the chuck key, my Supernova 2 Jaws can’t be removed without taking the chuck apart. If your new Nova is the same you won’t see the back of the Jaws without disassembly?

 

[Bill Blasic]

Seeing Neils post brings me to my first Supernova 2 chuck I bought and using that ball nosed allen key. It did not take me long using that key to mess up the pinions using the ball nose. From then on I cut off the ball from the key on every Supernova 2 I bought and I have not had to replace a pinion since. Probably my fault for the way I used it but I did find out that Nova used a few different pinions

 

[Bill Alston]

Seeing Neils post brings me to my first Supernova 2 chuck I bought and using that ball nosed allen key. It did not take me long using that key to mess up the pinions using the ball nose. From then on I cut off the ball from the key on every Supernova 2 I bought and I have not had to replace a pinion since. Probably my fault for the way I used it but I did find out that Nova used a few different pinions

Hex is a somewhat odd choice. Most pinions have a square recess. This is handy as it’s easy to make your own chuck keys. I made one for my 5’ independent chuck I use on my metal lathe. I found out online that it’s much easier dialling work in using two chuck keys.

 

[Bill Blasic]

Bill thankfully due to Nova woodturners do not have to use those chucks with independent jaws that have to be dialed in. My metal lathe came with two chucks one of which was a three jawed independent and the other a 4 jaw self centering, I just used the four jaw.

 

[Tim Hunter]

My metal lathe came with two chucks one of which was a three jawed independent and the other a 4 jaw self centering, I just used the four jaw.

Usually the other way around…a three-jaw independent chuck would be an oddball for sure.

I found out online that it’s much easier dialling work in using two chuck keys.

I can’t envision that being an advantagge. ‘sounds like something one would find online.

Tim

 

[Bill Alston]

Usually the other way around…a three-jaw independent chuck would be an oddball for sure.


I can’t envision that being an advantagge. ‘sounds like something one would find online.

Tim

I agree, I’ve not seen a three jaw independent.

I first saw the two key method on a competition to see who can dial in an independent chuck the quickest.
I since found out many machinists use two keys. I still take a while to dial in but do find it easier to use two keys.

 

[Bill Alston]

Bill thankfully due to Nova woodturners do not have to use those chucks with independent jaws that have to be dialed in.

I’ve never used an Independent chuck on a wood lathe. I’m sure others used scroll chucks before Nova bought out their model.

 

[John K Jordan]

Usually the other way around…a three-jaw independent chuck would be an oddball for sure.

That's the way my metal lathe is: I have one 3-jaw self centering chuck and a one with 4-independent jaws.
The 4 independent jaws are good for precision alignment of, say, a square or rectangular piece to turn a round shaft on part, or to align a rough or irregular casting to get the best use.

Also, I like the hex Nova chuck keys (cut off the the ball ends from those I use and gently radius the end. This is tiny bit quicker to align with the socket than a square key.)

I think the reasoning for the ball end was similar to the disliked design of the original SN chuck with the pivoting gear end - to let the turner tilt the key a bit to tighten a chuck on a tenon or recess inside the bowl where a straight chuck key might not fit. But with the ball removed, if access is a problem you can almost always use the short leg of a standard hex key.

It did not take me long using that key to mess up the pinions using the ball nose.

At one time, after numerous complaints, Nova realized the problem some were having with some of the chuck pinions set out pinions with stronger metal for those who thought to contact them.

JKJ

 

[Bill Alston]

At one time, after numerous complaints, Nova realized the problem some were having with some of the chuck pinions set out pinions with stronger metal for those who thought to contact them.

JKJ

There are numerous ways of making pinions. I’m pretty sure at least one of my chucks has evidence of broaching at the bottom of the square socket.
This may be indicative of a machined pinion. I notice the cost of one single pinion for a precision scroll chuck made by Bison is a similar cost to a complete wood turning chuck from some vendors!

 

[Raif Harik]

Hi, does anyone know a reputable place state side that sells the record victory chuck? Or if not can you tell me that it's very expensive so I don't need to bother?
I hear the quality concerns. I feel like the bigger quality concerns is me . Still if the price is right Id at least like to check it out.
Thx

 

[Neil S]

I’ve never used an Independent chuck on a wood lathe. I’m sure others used scroll chucks before Nova bought out their model.

We used metal machinist chucks (with entirely unsuitable jaws sets) before the fist Nova chuck came out. I still have and occasionally use mine for specific tasks...



There were also some prototype woodturning chucks with jaw sets that were more suitable for woodturning, but none of those were self-centering scroll chucks...





And, here is the first Nova chuck...

 

[Neil S]

I think the reasoning for the ball end was similar to the disliked design of the original SN chuck with the pivoting gear end - to let the turner tilt the key a bit to tighten a chuck on a tenon or recess inside the bowl where a straight chuck key might not fit. But with the ball removed, if access is a problem you can almost always use the short leg of a standard hex key.

I use that ability to tilt the key when I'm remounting pre-turned bowl blanks on the dovetail that I have left on the inside of the bowl ready to return. Most of the time the tilt saves me having to get out the standard hex key and fiddle in the constricted space between the chuck and bowl near the headstock or remount the chuck on a spindle extension. A ratchet spanner with a short length of hex key also works.

But otherwise, I just use a length of key in my battery drill to quickly open and close the chuck jaws. I'm often having to go from fully open to fully closed jaws and the drill speeds that up. The drill can also have the advantage of being able to pre-set the max torque used (in screw mode) when tightening the jaws into the wood. I did a little 1 minute video to show someone how quick the drill is at fully opening and closing the jaws compared to doing that by hand...

 

[Bill Alston]

Hi, does anyone know a reputable place state side that sells the record victory chuck? Or if not can you tell me that it's very expensive so I don't need to bother?
I hear the quality concerns. I feel like the bigger quality concerns is me . Still if the price is right Id at least like to check it out.
Thx

Victory Versalock Chuck - Record Power | Turners Warehouse

Pre-Order Introducing the revolutionary VersaLock Modular Jaw System by Record Power. Change jaws in seconds for increased speed, safety, and versatility. Enhance your woodturning experience with quick and secure jaw changes, minimizing lost screws and unsafe installations. Pre-order now to...

www.turnerswarehouse.com

 

[Tim Hunter]

I typically keep a 6" metalworking chuck with custom-made reversible 2-piece dovetail jaws on my New Haven lathe. Then two image on the metal lathe are just when I was making the jaws.





Tim

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I was allowed to turn wood on one of our shops metal lathes, a large older metal lathe still powered by flat belts, turned on it from about 1958 till 1967, when I emigrated to Canada.

Usually I used a faceplate, but also a self centring metal chuck (3 jaw, as my Dad wasn't going to buy a self centring 4 jaw chuck, too expensive and not economical for the type of turning we did).

So when Oneway came with the better 4 jaw wood lathe I got the Stronghold and later the Talon, still using these chucks, but bought a few more later on, got half a dozen now, that will do me , never regretted going with the Oneway chucks.

Reading and posting on the Rec.craft turning forum, I remember several turners that are still around, it was difficult very difficult to show pictures, plus then got scum taking over the forum, so I moved on.

I posted for years on a few forums, like SMC, till they got greedy and insisted on having to pay on top of all the posts and pictures I did post helping all the new turners that came on that forum, left there as well, still a couple I visit and post on, (wonder how much longer I can do this )

 

[Alan Weinberg]

still a couple I visit and post on

We are glad you are here.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Hi, does anyone know a reputable place state side that sells the record victory chuck? Or if not can you tell me that it's very expensive so I don't need to bother?
I hear the quality concerns. I feel like the bigger quality concerns is me . Still if the price is right Id at least like to check it out.
Thx

Appears no one has them in stock yet. Turners Warehouse shows an introductory pre-order price of $250 for the chuck and versa loc jaw set. An RP SC4 chuck is ~$200. A Nova SN2 can be purchased for <$200, just shop around. The RP chucks are Nova designs, RP having a licensing agreement with Nova, and I believe RP produces the chucks in the UK. The main difference is wider jaw slides vs Nova chucks. In 6 yrs of use I have not had any jaw slide issues with my Nova chucks, and visual inspection does not show any problems. Several members on here have had Nova chucks for much longer and report no issues. IMO the "wider jaw slides" is a marketing differentiator and not needed.

RP's page for the chuck lists the "improvements" https://woodturningchucks.recordpower.com/victory-chuck/

If you turn a lot of smaller items, the versa loc jaws may be of interest. 1/2 the # of screws to change out (though 2 smaller jaw sets for my Nova's only use 4 screws) that can stay in the jaw. The rest of the items appear to be marketing hyperbole IMO. The newer Nova Pro Tek chucks are "righty tighty" like other mfrs and use the torx head screws (not needed if you don't overtighten the screws). RP jaws will bit Nova chucks and RP has a few sets different from Nova - I have an RP set of 35mm "bird beak" jaws I use quite often.

IMO the RP Victory chuck is an expensive marketing gimmick, but others may see it as another turning "holy grail".

 

[Mike Peace]

From Record Power.

View attachment 71963

I did a review of the Victory chuck and the Versalock jaw inserts. They do not have a 1"x8 as I originally thought.

View: https://youtu.be/bTxegBWAssA