Odie does your tail stock ever get used during your bowl turning process?
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After 33 years with my Woodfast, a Vicmarc VL240 is now on the way!
- Thread starter Odie
- Start date
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Howdy Steve......
I have taken a deposit on the Woodfast lathe and expect the buyer to be here to pick it up sometime next month.
=o=
Only occasionally.
Usually only when extreme out-of-balance conditions require it.
=o=
This thread has taken on a life of its own Odie.
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
The one thing I truly hate about my VL240 lathe....is the banjo. That single position lockdown handle on the banjo got in the way too many times. To use the alternate bolt is annoying....and there is NO alternative position for the handle.
I decided to make up a wrench that stays on a hook just under the tachometer.....so I can now leave the handle replacement bolt installed permanently.
The banjo is heavily made.....I like that! ......but, Vicmarc should have thought this through a little more thoroughly. I sure do miss my old Robust Sweet 16 dogleg banjo with its reversable locking lever.
(I'd still buy this lathe....even with it's flaws....That rotating head is outstanding! Saves my back! I'm no longer wearing a back brace to do the interiors of bowls.)
=o=
I decided to make up a wrench that stays on a hook just under the tachometer.....so I can now leave the handle replacement bolt installed permanently.
The banjo is heavily made.....I like that! ......but, Vicmarc should have thought this through a little more thoroughly. I sure do miss my old Robust Sweet 16 dogleg banjo with its reversable locking lever.
(I'd still buy this lathe....even with it's flaws....That rotating head is outstanding! Saves my back! I'm no longer wearing a back brace to do the interiors of bowls.)
=o=
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Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Another thing I'd change on the VL240, is that tachometer.
The readout is delayed by a few seconds and is useless because of it.
Vicmarc is doing the right thing by supplying the rpm readout.....but, that setup is totally useless.
Digital is fine for most applications, but an analog meter would be better, if that what is needed to have an "instant" reading.
=o=
Don't know if I mentioned this before, but the red stop bar had too light a touch to stop the spindle. I found that I was accidently tripping it while working normally. If it were originally made with a stiffer spring, that would be the solution......but, I added some spongy Styrofoam behind it to stiffen it up a bit. Now, it takes a deliberate push on the stop bar to activate it...
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The readout is delayed by a few seconds and is useless because of it.
Vicmarc is doing the right thing by supplying the rpm readout.....but, that setup is totally useless.
Digital is fine for most applications, but an analog meter would be better, if that what is needed to have an "instant" reading.
=o=
Don't know if I mentioned this before, but the red stop bar had too light a touch to stop the spindle. I found that I was accidently tripping it while working normally. If it were originally made with a stiffer spring, that would be the solution......but, I added some spongy Styrofoam behind it to stiffen it up a bit. Now, it takes a deliberate push on the stop bar to activate it...
.
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I understand your pain with the toolrest lock handle, Odie, but I feel the need to balance the scale for the general readership.
Since 2001 until today, I've had the Papa Vicmac VL300, Mama VL200 (which remains with me), and Baby VL100 in my shop, and never once have I had issues with the toolrest locking handles on any of them (all similar to yours). I don't mean to be contrary to your likes, needs, and wishes, but I just don't want potential future users to feel that there is an inherent problem with the design that may sway them away from the machine.
To put it in perspective, the front-mounted toolrest lock handle on my Oneway 1224 (common design to their larger lathes) is well regarded by just about everyone, yet I didn't like it at all and I changed it to something else (, a ratchet-style lock handle, I have a whole thread on this that can be searched here). I don't fault Oneway, and I don't feel it is inferior or defective, it's just my personal preference.
This thread is proof positive that you demand the highest level of performance from all of your machinery, and that you'll fiddle and tweak until you've gotten something to be where you expect it to be. An admirable effort, and it shows in your work. But to balance what we watch you do to make them your own, Vicmarc is building some of the finest non-CNC woodturning machinery on the planet, and as far as I'm concerned, objectively speaking, held on the same podium as the equally high quality Oneway and Robust lathes.
But thank you for explaining the issues you have, and how you get around them. These will be meaningful to someone at some time, I'm sure.
Since 2001 until today, I've had the Papa Vicmac VL300, Mama VL200 (which remains with me), and Baby VL100 in my shop, and never once have I had issues with the toolrest locking handles on any of them (all similar to yours). I don't mean to be contrary to your likes, needs, and wishes, but I just don't want potential future users to feel that there is an inherent problem with the design that may sway them away from the machine.
To put it in perspective, the front-mounted toolrest lock handle on my Oneway 1224 (common design to their larger lathes) is well regarded by just about everyone, yet I didn't like it at all and I changed it to something else (, a ratchet-style lock handle, I have a whole thread on this that can be searched here). I don't fault Oneway, and I don't feel it is inferior or defective, it's just my personal preference.
This thread is proof positive that you demand the highest level of performance from all of your machinery, and that you'll fiddle and tweak until you've gotten something to be where you expect it to be. An admirable effort, and it shows in your work. But to balance what we watch you do to make them your own, Vicmarc is building some of the finest non-CNC woodturning machinery on the planet, and as far as I'm concerned, objectively speaking, held on the same podium as the equally high quality Oneway and Robust lathes.
But thank you for explaining the issues you have, and how you get around them. These will be meaningful to someone at some time, I'm sure.
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Thank you for your input, Steve.....
I wouldn't want to deter anyone from buying a Vicmarc lathe.....and, as I stated above, I'd still buy this lathe today. As far as I'm concerned, this VL240 is the best lathe made specifically for bowl turning nutcases like me! ha,ha!
What I'm hoping, is this thread eventually gets some attention from Vicmarc. It really would be a simple fix to slightly redesign the banjo for a better, more applicable and repositionable toolpost lockdown.
If a newer/better banjo ever becomes available......I'd buy it!
=o=
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
You know.......I thought of doing exactly that.....but, had second thoughts.
I'd like to see some improvements to the VL240, but it's my belief that if the information in this thread filters to the Vicmarc doers and shakers from other sources, they might pay more attention to it.
I will continue to give my thoughts and impressions in this thread concerning this wonderful lathe in the mean time.....
This lathe will not make me a better turner....but, it certainly will make me a happier turner....with fewer back related issues!
=o=
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
OK thanks.....
Larry sez: "Odie, could you experiment with Robust and/or Oneway banjos to see if one of them would meet your needs now? Brent English at Robust is very helpful. You might want to talk to him. So happy to hear that your back problems have been reduced by your new Vicmarc 240."
What I NEED is a long dogleg banjo. The Vicmarc banjo is perfect, except for the toolpost grub screw style of locking the tool post.....and that absurdly long locking handle.
Matter of fact, I did check out the Robust and Oneway banjos. The last time I checked, neither outfit has exactly what is needed. The long Sweet 16 banjo is long enough, but not a dogleg configuration. The short sweet 16 banjo that I have now is a dogleg style.....but, isn't long enough to use on the Vicmarc VL240 with the headstock swiveled. The Oneway banjos aren't dogleg either. If either of these manufactures wanted to produce what I need, they'd have to return to casting of the basic banjo......I don't think they'd be willing to do that.
For the time being, I believe I'll just use the Vicmarc banjo....and permanently scrap that original locking lever, in favor of the short bolt and wrench I've been using lately...
=o=
Larry sez: "Odie, could you experiment with Robust and/or Oneway banjos to see if one of them would meet your needs now? Brent English at Robust is very helpful. You might want to talk to him. So happy to hear that your back problems have been reduced by your new Vicmarc 240."
What I NEED is a long dogleg banjo. The Vicmarc banjo is perfect, except for the toolpost grub screw style of locking the tool post.....and that absurdly long locking handle.
Matter of fact, I did check out the Robust and Oneway banjos. The last time I checked, neither outfit has exactly what is needed. The long Sweet 16 banjo is long enough, but not a dogleg configuration. The short sweet 16 banjo that I have now is a dogleg style.....but, isn't long enough to use on the Vicmarc VL240 with the headstock swiveled. The Oneway banjos aren't dogleg either. If either of these manufactures wanted to produce what I need, they'd have to return to casting of the basic banjo......I don't think they'd be willing to do that.
For the time being, I believe I'll just use the Vicmarc banjo....and permanently scrap that original locking lever, in favor of the short bolt and wrench I've been using lately...
=o=
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Do you have a metal fab shop local to you? (cutting, machining, welding)
They can work fine with cast iron and any kind of steel. (I've never worked with cast iron myself other than drilling and tapping but long ago before I got my metal-working set up I took a broken cast iron piece to a local shop and they fixed it. (I can't remember if they welded or brazed it)
I wonder if it would be possible to modify an existing dogleg banjo to fit your machine, if it was large enough. Or add a 90-deg extension to an existing conventional banjo.
Odie - have you looked at the Robust Dogleg? I find it useful when I need to use a short (4 - 6") toolrest on my Robust AB. Might solve your problem? I actually bought it years ago when I first got my AB and had several Robust tool rests with a short post (from my previous lathe). Found it useful to get a very short tool rest into some positions.
Interesting idea Jeff...never seen one before, appreciate you posting it.
One truism I learned years ago Odie...take the most well thought out designed machine and a thousand experts will say it's perfect. Have one novice work on it for ten minutes and that person will find the one fatal mistake everyone else missed. The best laid plans and all that I guess. Personally...I love everything there is about my AB with the one lone exception of a RPM read-out. I'm learning to live without it but it still leaves me scratching my head why it isn't there?OK thanks.....
Larry sez: "Odie, could you experiment with Robust and/or Oneway banjos to see if one of them would meet your needs now? Brent English at Robust is very helpful. You might want to talk to him. So happy to hear that your back problems have been reduced by your new Vicmarc 240."
What I NEED is a long dogleg banjo. The Vicmarc banjo is perfect, except for the toolpost grub screw style of locking the tool post.....and that absurdly long locking handle.
Matter of fact, I did check out the Robust and Oneway banjos. The last time I checked, neither outfit has exactly what is needed. The long Sweet 16 banjo is long enough, but not a dogleg configuration. The short sweet 16 banjo that I have now is a dogleg style.....but, isn't long enough to use on the Vicmarc VL240 with the headstock swiveled. The Oneway banjos aren't dogleg either. If either of these manufactures wanted to produce what I need, they'd have to return to casting of the basic banjo......I don't think they'd be willing to do that.
For the time being, I believe I'll just use the Vicmarc banjo....and permanently scrap that original locking lever, in favor of the short bolt and wrench I've been using lately...
=o=
View attachment 84037
RPM meter. Nice to know? Yep. Necessity? Well...
Pics from my Vicmarc VL200-
And my Oneway 1224-
On the Vic, I keep the belt on the 1800rpm pulleys almost all of the time. If I turn the drive knob to 100, that's 1800rpm. 50- about 900rpm. Aim at 25, I should be around 450rpm. Give or take [I don't really care how many] rpms.
On the Oneway, I have two pulley choices- 0-2000rpm, and 0-4000rpm. It stays on the 2000 pulleys. And then I just adjust the knob and do a quick figuring in my head, but this time on a zero to ten scale. Setting 5 is around 1000rpm...
But honesly, I really have never cared about knowing actual RPM. And I've never used a lathe that has it. What for? (And it's just a fragile system prone to failure, anyway.) It's like driving a manual transmission car, I listen to and feel the engine and tranny as I look out the window, and along with experience, they tell me when to shift. I don't shift when a gauge tell me to. At the lathe, I listen to the running machine, feel its vibrations, and watch the spinning wood, and adjust the speed dial accordingly. I'm never going to judge what rotational speed I should introduce the cutter to the wood at because of an arbitrary number on a display, it just isn't necessary. Be liberated, skip the rpm gauge!
Nice to know? Sure. Do I need it? Nope. Do you (the greater audience) need it? Maybe, but why?
Pics from my Vicmarc VL200-
And my Oneway 1224-
On the Vic, I keep the belt on the 1800rpm pulleys almost all of the time. If I turn the drive knob to 100, that's 1800rpm. 50- about 900rpm. Aim at 25, I should be around 450rpm. Give or take [I don't really care how many] rpms.
On the Oneway, I have two pulley choices- 0-2000rpm, and 0-4000rpm. It stays on the 2000 pulleys. And then I just adjust the knob and do a quick figuring in my head, but this time on a zero to ten scale. Setting 5 is around 1000rpm...
But honesly, I really have never cared about knowing actual RPM. And I've never used a lathe that has it. What for? (And it's just a fragile system prone to failure, anyway.) It's like driving a manual transmission car, I listen to and feel the engine and tranny as I look out the window, and along with experience, they tell me when to shift. I don't shift when a gauge tell me to. At the lathe, I listen to the running machine, feel its vibrations, and watch the spinning wood, and adjust the speed dial accordingly. I'm never going to judge what rotational speed I should introduce the cutter to the wood at because of an arbitrary number on a display, it just isn't necessary. Be liberated, skip the rpm gauge!
Nice to know? Sure. Do I need it? Nope. Do you (the greater audience) need it? Maybe, but why?
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Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Since I'm always searching for the "perfect cut"....an RPM readout is essential to my turning.
RPM is one component of the formula in searching for the perfect cut.....
=o=
Yep, Robust should at least have an option for one. Would not be that difficult to add one. Another option is to “tach the marks” either ballpark the way @Steve Tiedman does, or get a cheap optical tach from amazon - you just put reflective tape on the spindle or chuck etc, point the tach at it and get the rpm, make a cheat sheet for rpm at various marks on the speed control until you memorize them. If you want to add a digital or analog meter it would not be difficult.
Steve, and others who poo-poo tachs, do use a tach, though they probably won’t admit it - they relate rpm to speed dial markings - isn’t that an analog tach? That’s how my analog tachs work. I prefer to have an actual digital readout, this being the digital age and all, but a speed dial with markings works as an analog. My 1st lathe was a reeves drive, I used an optical tach to get the rpm at each of the adj handle stops, and plotted it on the dia vs surface speed chart hanging at the lathe. My current Nova does not have dial markings, so a readout on the machine is required.
Well, I don't think the speed knob itself (or gas pedal) can be considered a tachometer. Maybe the numbers around the knob in a loosely approximate sort of way, but even those aren't the meter in tachometer. But I know what you mean...
Oh, I get it now, Odie. It's the perfect that you are forever in search of. I understand. Well, I won't interfere with that quest. Enjoy the journey along the way! May it be free of knots and splits and wood borers.Since I'm always searching for the "perfect cut"....an RPM readout is essential to my turning.
RPM is one component of the formula in searching for the perfect cut.....
=o=
Robust does have digital readout on their Scout and Sweet 16 lathes. On the AB it is an analog readout with the speed marked on the dial. I do have one of the rpm gauges and was surprised how it compared very well to the markings. I had digital readout on my Laguna 18-36 (when it worked) and guess I used it, but really don’t miss it on the AB as long as I can set the speed accurately. I do understand the need for the perfect cut at a speed, but I don’t think a digital readout really gets me there. It is more of a feel. You set the speed and then tweak the rpm to find it.
Fourteen years ago I brought my (then) new AB into the shop, having upgraded from the Jet 1642 I'd been using for several years. Within a couple of weeks I was figuring out how to add a digital RPM readout to it. It wasn't very difficult, and Amazon meant that the parts arrived quickly - another week and I had it rigged, in a small box with rare earth magnets that fit easily above the pendant on the headstock. I had it all.
What I found was that its only real use was to give me a rpm number that I could use to identify what actual speed each number on the speed dial was giving me. Within a month or two it was so seldom used that I took it all off - haven't missed it in the nearly decade and a half since.
As has been mentioned, a small optical tach can be found for a few bucks on amazon or ebay. take a few minutes to chart the rpm at each point on the speed dial and you're done.
What I found was that its only real use was to give me a rpm number that I could use to identify what actual speed each number on the speed dial was giving me. Within a month or two it was so seldom used that I took it all off - haven't missed it in the nearly decade and a half since.
As has been mentioned, a small optical tach can be found for a few bucks on amazon or ebay. take a few minutes to chart the rpm at each point on the speed dial and you're done.
When I want to measure RPM on some device that doesn't have a sensor/readout I use an inexpensive optical tachometer. It came with reflective tape to put on a shaft.
www.amazon.com/dp/B004Q8L894
I have an uncalibrated speed dial on my milling machine so I used it to read the speed at different dial positions and wrote them on the dial. Could just make a diagram and keep it handy.
Don't use it much but it's handy on occasion.
My lathe (and previous lathes) have had the RPM displays. However, I rarely look at them unless someone asks what speed I'm turning. I guess I got used to the feel of the tools vs the sounds cues.
Could prob rig up one like described above to read and display the RPM either all the time or on demand, mounted with a bracket or maybe disassemble and separate the optical and readout components. I haven't checked, there may be other options available, maybe one with a magnetic sensor that could be mounted somewhere inside the headstock (like in other lathes). I put a different type on a gasoline engine but it monitored the spark plug; wouldn't work here.
JKJ
Agreed!
Odie, if that stubby little remnant of a crescent wrench is all the length you need on the lock bolt, A) couldn't you weld a rod on the end of the bolt at your preferred angle, when it's tight?, or B) couldn't you find one of the adjustable/positionable locking bolts in the proper screw thread and handle length, as below?
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Howdy Dean......it's been a mild winter for us, but it ain't over yet!T
Thanks for your idea A)......I may eventually do that.
As for B) ..... There really isn't any commercially available adjustable handles that would work in that location. What I need is an alternate position to lock down the toolrest.
You guys have been very helpful with your suggestions.......makin' me think!
=o=